Outer Limits 4x4 Board

macca81 wrote:

Guts wrote: Crawler gears fix 99% of problems for a petrol to be able to crawl.

so we spend the money on the petrol donks, then more money to be able to make them go slow....

$1000.00 to have true crawling, you need to do the same with a diesel if you truly want to crawl.

Now how many thousands do you spend on a turbo? Even GU factory turbo diesel need thousands spent to make them any good. The new cruiser turbo diesels are OK out of the box.

i dont have, nor intend to have a turbo, so im not spending anything there

i say get rid of the diesil is the way to go and inj 5ltr caus parts for them are easy and cheap to get. the best thing i did for my truck was the engine conversion. al my mates with the 2.4 turbo diesel love itand want2 do theres. instant power in bogg makes a big difference for me.
IF IN DOUGHT POWER OUT

If I was building a truck for general 4x4 then I'd stay with a mild turbo diesel ie 16psi, intercooled, pump work and a manual shift auto.
For comp work there is no suititute for revs and HP, as you can tell from what I've done (turboed VH45).
As has been said plenty of times before a TD42 with good turbo will make as much power and a lot more torque than a 5l Holden BUT the V8 will go better due to more revs, the speed it gets the revs and besides which it sounds better. Why anyone would put a 5l Holden in is beyond me as they are such a limited motor. Sure you can make them go but the same amount spent on almost anything else will provide more power.
The other thing to think about is cost. To turbo a TD42 is a very well known cost and is fixed.
ANY conversion is going to cost plenty, and it will be plenty more than first thought and it will be a lot more BUT he V8 will sound better!!!!!

heaps of great points, loving it. Looking into it abit more now I think a LS1 would be the go. Looking at power out of the box between the 5ltr and LS1, the LS1 wins hands down and I think to get the same power out of a 5ltr it would be cheaper, and beneficial to go with a LS1. What did the VH45 cost you to buy nzdarin?

Newhouse wrote:heaps of great points, loving it. Looking into it abit more now I think a LS1 would be the go. Looking at power out of the box between the 5ltr and LS1, the LS1 wins hands down and I think to get the same power out of a 5ltr it would be cheaper, and beneficial to go with a LS1. What did the VH45 cost you to buy nzdarin?

forgive me because i'm not a holden/chev expert, but isn't the LS1 the motor out of the VY?

if so, the LS1 is renoun for having fuck all torque down low.

Why is low down torque even that much of a need? 4wd's are usually revving very high so having a power band like a gen3 would be fine for offroading

I'm still saying the VH45 300hp and a halfcut aint worth much.They respond well to mods and are not a hard conversion to do yourself with some basic skills.

Thought...
Why is it that most Jap and European cars can produce heaps of horsepower with a smaller engine than Aus or US engines.....?
ANSWER = Cos the F'n engine isn't 30 year old CRAP technology. Why do people settle with great big prehistoric petrol guzzling donks to get from A to B ?

Work the guts out of the Diesel and if your not wanting to keep the Diesel, stick a VH45 in it. 4.5 litre Nissan V8 means not too big and a modern engine. Still not happy, take a look at what the Toyota Tundra has in it.... 5.7 litre Toyota V8. This is an engine that smells of potential, I could only imagine it's a similar type engine to the Lexus 4 litre = modern.
Ben

hokey wrote:Why is low down torque even that much of a need? 4wd's are usually revving very high so having a power band like a gen3 would be fine for offroading

For trying to scream through mud or climb cliffs in iceland maybe. But for anything slow and technical a screamer engine sucks.

I bought a complete car (Q45 Infinity) running, so I had everything I needed for the conversion. My truck was auto and that is the same as the car so it is basically a bolt together. I have done almost all of it myself except for getting manifolds etc made (by my brother in law) and it has still cost about $12,000.00! Yes mine is turboed with a dual ball bearing turbo and it has an Autronic ecu so take out the turbo , PWR water to air intercooler and ecu (if you want to do it half arsed) it is still about $7000.
The main reasons for doing the conversion were to reduce weight. ie VH45 200kgs, TD42 350kgs. To increase revs VH45 7400rpm with 80% of torque at 2000rpm (factory spec gives approx 330 nm torque at 2000rpm) so gives a good drivable rev range of over 4000rpm. And to increase the speed the motor gets to revs.
It is an expensive exercise to do properly (and have a reliable truck) and I wouldn't do it for a non-competition vehicle. I did a lot of research and looked at a lot of options from turboed 3l to LS6 and everything in between including deisel and petrol options.
You have o look at how you drive, what you drive and where you drive. You can get HP a lot of different ways so it depends on what you want. My solution is not right for everyone but then I'm planning on doing a few off road races as well as winch challenges so the need for top end was more important than low end grunt but when you have motor producing boost at 2000rpm I'll have plenty down low particulary as it is an auto as well.
I can go on forever, but that will bore people, but I'm happy to answer questions

hokey wrote:Why is low down torque even that much of a need? 4wd's are usually revving very high so having a power band like a gen3 would be fine for offroading

depends on how you drive them really... most people i wheel with that rev them high break stuff and still don't make it. slow and controlled needs low down torque.

not to mention moving 2+ ton off from traffic lights every day of the week. you can rev your gen 3 to 3000rpm then slip the clutch to get it going, i'll prefer an engine you can pop the clutch at idle and have it take off without histronics.

I love the holden v8 in my cruiuser, most of the points made about them so far are not completely true, everyone is entitled to their opinions but their view inst always correct.
My EFI V8 have heaps of torque, more than any inline peterol and as much as most diesels, and yeah it uses more fuel than a diesel but not any more than a 2f 6 cylinder. If someone wants a v8, then i think it can be a very good swap.

there are plenty of good options out there, just find the right one for you

(Getting off my box now)
Paul

Pauwolf wrote:I love the holden v8 in my cruiuser, most of the points made about them so far are not completely true, everyone is entitled to their opinions but their view inst always correct.
My EFI V8 have heaps of torque, more than any inline peterol and as much as most diesels, and yeah it uses more fuel than a diesel but not any more than a 2f 6 cylinder. If someone wants a v8, then i think it can be a very good swap.

there are plenty of good options out there, just find the right one for you

(Getting off my box now)
Paul

I would have to agreei just put a EFI 5L in my GQ shorty and love it... seaps of torgue and power and sounds wicked.... lots of fun to drive

according to http://www.marks4wd.com/misc_info/engin ... ldenPetrol

the 5 litres have a peak torque around 3600 -4000 rpm.

not what i'd call low down

Expect a Petrol V8 to overheat, they aren't made for low speeds and working hard.

bad_religion_au wrote:according to http://www.marks4wd.com/misc_info/engin ... ldenPetrol

the 5 litres have a peak torque around 3600 -4000 rpm.

not what i'd call low down

from the same source a 1fzfe makes less torque at the same revs


its a non argument - its horses for courses, you will not beat the grunt of a 5l v8 in real world driving. Everybody doesnt have to agree they are great, Im happy with my choice. Just leaves more 6 cylinders for everybody else to play with

ps I didn't go with a V8 because of the grunt, I recon diesel is the only way to to go for torque. I went with one because of cheap access to parts

Paul

Pauwolf wrote:

bad_religion_au wrote:according to http://www.marks4wd.com/misc_info/engin ... ldenPetrol

the 5 litres have a peak torque around 3600 -4000 rpm.

not what i'd call low down

from the same source a 1fzfe makes less torque at the same revs


its a non argument - its horses for courses, you will not beat the grunt of a 5l v8 in real world driving. Everybody doesnt have to agree they are great, Im happy with my choice. Just leaves more 6 cylinders for everybody else to play with

ps I didn't go with a V8 because of the grunt, I recon diesel is the only way to to go for torque. I went with one because of cheap access to parts

Paul

which is where torque curves are a more accurate measure of real world ability. try finding them tho

And this comes back to what I said about why I went with the VH45. It has 400nm at 4000rpm BUT it has 320nm at 2000rpm and 360nm at 6000rpm. That isn't earth shattering torque (which is why I've turboed mine) but it gives a very large rev range and so very good drivabilty.
The key is for people to figure out what they need and get that. My point about the 5.0 Holden is that it will be expensive to increase the HP as apposed to a lot of other motors. In standard form it is cheap etc etc but in reality it is not a high performance motor. 185kw is not worth the effort of doing a conversion. If you are happy that is great and no one will argue that it will be better than what it replaced BUT there's other options that will be a lot better for most applications.

Newhouse wrote:Thanks for all the responses guys, its been very interesting. Bru, didnt you have a LS1 in a GQ? Like Jes said its just a V8 thing. If these 4.2 TD are what people say they are then why are most comp trucks V8? Most of the guys I know have thrown the diesel in favour of the V8. What about a LS1 with maybe a cam and chip? And Bru, do you have any more info on the 350? Is it fuel injected?

Thanks again for all your replys.

Newhouse

Because most guys in comps dont stick a a shitty 5L commodore motor in them.

Most are spending in excess of 10k some up to 30 - 40k alone.

Just stick with your diesel and at least is reliable spend the money that you were considering for the conversion on a roller turbo and your pump rebuilt to add more fuel.