Outer Limits 4x4 Board

KiwiBacon wrote:

cloughy wrote:

KiwiBacon wrote:
I'm at 2&3 above but haven't yet fitted my intercooler. In a 2.3T fultime 4wd rangie it has 4 wheel traction issues in the wet and can spin up the rear wheels in second in the dry.

This has bugged me for ages, if your loosing traction, it will be the front wheels that spin and one at that, not a big deal with anything with a little more grunt than a rover motor, they dont light up the rear wheels

And they're a pain to drive, with no rev range, great tourers, and ok for lugging around the bush, but when you need to clean the tyres, 3200rpm just wont cut it

I have no problem cleaning the tyres, I've got 15psi boost by 1500rpm and that's where tyres start to howl. With the right tune they pull until the early 3000rpm's. Stock rev limit is 3600rpm.

To spin up the rear wheels on tarmac starts with a corner, the extra load on the rears is enough to break them (aka both of them) loose first.
In the wet or on gravel in an (approximately) straight line they drift mostly evenly.

Yes bigger turbos on a diesel are stupid. You need a small exhaust housing to create enough boost, attempts at installing bigger exhaust housings to reduce backpressure are counter-productive and usually the work of people who work on petrols too much.
I have both boost and backpressure gauges on my engine, I've experimented with a few diff turbos, variable vane and compounds are next.

The stock fuel pump should be capable of delivering around 120cc per thousand shots just by winding out the screw. That'll give you around 600Nm.

Do not put LPG into any diesel you care about. The detonation will kill it. Diesel and air is all you need.

cloughy wrote:

KiwiBacon wrote:

cloughy wrote:

KiwiBacon wrote:
I'm at 2&3 above but haven't yet fitted my intercooler. In a 2.3T fultime 4wd rangie it has 4 wheel traction issues in the wet and can spin up the rear wheels in second in the dry.

This has bugged me for ages, if your loosing traction, it will be the front wheels that spin and one at that, not a big deal with anything with a little more grunt than a rover motor, they dont light up the rear wheels

And they're a pain to drive, with no rev range, great tourers, and ok for lugging around the bush, but when you need to clean the tyres, 3200rpm just wont cut it

I have no problem cleaning the tyres, I've got 15psi boost by 1500rpm and that's where tyres start to howl. With the right tune they pull until the early 3000rpm's. Stock rev limit is 3600rpm.

To spin up the rear wheels on tarmac starts with a corner, the extra load on the rears is enough to break them (aka both of them) loose first.
In the wet or on gravel in an (approximately) straight line they drift mostly evenly.

Yes bigger turbos on a diesel are stupid. You need a small exhaust housing to create enough boost, attempts at installing bigger exhaust housings to reduce backpressure are counter-productive and usually the work of people who work on petrols too much.
I have both boost and backpressure gauges on my engine, I've experimented with a few diff turbos, variable vane and compounds are next.

The stock fuel pump should be capable of delivering around 120cc per thousand shots just by winding out the screw. That'll give you around 600Nm.

Do not put LPG into any diesel you care about. The detonation will kill it. Diesel and air is all you need.

Clean the tyres, yea, what size??

Centre diff or VC??, you'll be spinning the front without dropping the front shaft, unless your doing something magical I dont know about

My last piece of poo would do the double metric ton on 35's. albiet scary , reckon I got a little idea about what they do with horspower

KiwiBacon wrote:

cloughy wrote:

KiwiBacon wrote:

cloughy wrote:

KiwiBacon wrote:
I'm at 2&3 above but haven't yet fitted my intercooler. In a 2.3T fultime 4wd rangie it has 4 wheel traction issues in the wet and can spin up the rear wheels in second in the dry.

This has bugged me for ages, if your loosing traction, it will be the front wheels that spin and one at that, not a big deal with anything with a little more grunt than a rover motor, they dont light up the rear wheels

And they're a pain to drive, with no rev range, great tourers, and ok for lugging around the bush, but when you need to clean the tyres, 3200rpm just wont cut it

I have no problem cleaning the tyres, I've got 15psi boost by 1500rpm and that's where tyres start to howl. With the right tune they pull until the early 3000rpm's. Stock rev limit is 3600rpm.

To spin up the rear wheels on tarmac starts with a corner, the extra load on the rears is enough to break them (aka both of them) loose first.
In the wet or on gravel in an (approximately) straight line they drift mostly evenly.

Yes bigger turbos on a diesel are stupid. You need a small exhaust housing to create enough boost, attempts at installing bigger exhaust housings to reduce backpressure are counter-productive and usually the work of people who work on petrols too much.
I have both boost and backpressure gauges on my engine, I've experimented with a few diff turbos, variable vane and compounds are next.

The stock fuel pump should be capable of delivering around 120cc per thousand shots just by winding out the screw. That'll give you around 600Nm.

Do not put LPG into any diesel you care about. The detonation will kill it. Diesel and air is all you need.

Clean the tyres, yea, what size??

Centre diff or VC??, you'll be spinning the front without dropping the front shaft, unless your doing something magical I dont know about

My last piece of poo would do the double metric ton on 35's. albiet scary , reckon I got a little idea about what they do with horspower

Tyres are little ones, 225/75.
Yes it spins up the back wheels, like I said it starts with a corner. The cornering loads are higher on the back wheels which is why they slide first. Once sliding they have a lot less traction than rolling wheels (high school physics, static vs dynamic friction).
Transfer is LT230. A BW case wit VC would shift more drive to the front wheels and wouldn't be as much fun.

This one used to hit the rev limit at 145km/h. It's now geared higher and the theoretical limit is 180km/h. Theoretical because I haven't done it and probably won't. 140km/h now and the cops take your license.

cloughy wrote: The problem with theory, is that pragmatism overalls them with actuals

..........

But still never been able to spin the rear wheels in any of the 20odd rovers I've wrecked....only front wheels, nature of the centre differential and weight shifting of the vehicle ya see

KiwiBacon wrote:

cloughy wrote: The problem with theory, is that pragmatism overalls them with actuals

..........

But still never been able to spin the rear wheels in any of the 20odd rovers I've wrecked....only front wheels, nature of the centre differential and weight shifting of the vehicle ya see

How much torque did these 20 odd rovers have? The 3.5's and 3.9's were nowhere near what a wound up 4BD1T delivers.

Your theory of weight shift isn't complete. You're missing the sideways load of cornering acting more on the rear wheels and rear wheels once spinning having far less grip. In a close to straight line they behave as you expect.

I tried to get a video for you, but the wife wasn't willing.

cloughy wrote: Yep, but twin turboed 302 windsors

KiwiBacon wrote:

cloughy wrote: Yep, but twin turboed 302 windsors

Got pics?
That might solve DEF90's power problems.

*edit*
BTW even a windsor is approx 200kg lighter than a 4BD1T and that's sitting right over the front wheels.
Might be another reason you'd always break loose the fronts first.
*/edit*

cloughy wrote:Kiwibacon......http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/vi ... p?t=127839

bigbad wrote:why not just buy a Toyota