Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Tiny wrote:

Surfection wrote: I don't know what to say to you mate but if you think you're making yourself look good by posting all the crap that you are, think again.
I have known Andrew for many years, as have hundreds of people on Outerlimits that he has helped with information and guidance over the years. I have bought and traded plenty of stuff with Andrew including diffs and lockers and have always been 100% happy. I would trust his word over yours to the end of the earth and emplore other such people to post up. The 4wding community would be a boring place if it wasn't for people such as Dow50r and Dumbdunce helping the younger and less educated among us get through our conversions and rig transformations.

I hope you take this as a lesson to research your conversions properly as I believe it was not Andrews responsibility to tell you if the gearbox would fit or not, just what type of gearbox it was and that it was in good working order which he has said.

Cheers, Jeremy

x 2

X 3

I have also delt with Andrew in the past. And had items freighted to my door here in Brisbane by Midy73 and have received exactly what was described to me. Also as the owner of this site i have never had anyone contact me that has had a bad deal with Andrew.

If you bought an item from me and then modified it in any way you would not be getting any money back from me. If it didnt fit then send it back. Dont modify it. Especially if a bush could have been made to make this fit. Ive also worked in or around the Second Hand parts game for at least 10 years and no business would ever give you your money back if you were to modify it.

If i were you i would accept Andrews offer for you to return the box and then he will refund your money. No one is going to give someone their money back unless you return the item first.

Turbo42 can I assume that this is the gear box for sale?

http://www.offroad80s.com/viewtopic.php?t=985

For those that can not access the site here is a copy of the add. Now if I have read the thread right and with my limited mechanical knowledge should you have mentioned the modification to the input shaft. Or is this not part of the gear box?

ITEM:
Toyota 5 Speed Gearbox, from GXL Cruiser, suit 3F

CONDITION:
I was told very good with guarantee, in fact it is crap.

REASON FOR SELLING:
Got sold it to me as a Guaranteed good box, well after fitting it to the 80 series it is crap and I was lied to. Luckily he had given it a guarantee, but unluckily he is not an honest guy.

PRICE AND PRICE CONDITIONS:
$1200, just trying to cover the cost of buying it, shipping it, and installing it, removing it etc.

EXTRA INFO:
Box is crap but is being sold with an honest description, not the dishonest one gave me. I am not giving the box any sort of warranty as I know it is crap and don’t wish to be dishonest and rip someone off.

LOCATION:
Stafford, BRISBANE

CONTACT:
PM

PICTURES:
Looks like a great box but has crappy syncro’s, can provide pictures to potential buyers if req’d.

200k on it and he expects it to be a new box by the sounds of it

Andrew tell him he's dreaming

ive got 260k on my hzj75 which has had a reco box in it and its crap in the syncro's, old news there

ive got a spare box from behing a 3f here too, drove fine before it took it out has been sitting a while but its got over 200k on it too guess he wouldn't be happy with it either got a 3b one too with the same sort of k's

if you expect a new box, go an buy one from tojo and dont complain about the price

Thats the one, go up to my third post in this subject and click on the red bit to read what was originally posted on there and here and also on one more site that i know of....it includes most of my details.

If we look at this from info contained in Brads' earlier post, What he is suggesting is my guarantee that it would work well includes the courier, mechanic and machinists work.
Also on offroad80's, seeing as though you mentioned that site, he mentions he was sold a set of 4 inch OME springs....no wonder he is so upset with sharks online....

turbo42
80 Newbie

Hi Guys,

I have a 92 80 Series and am about to put in some 4" OME Coils and Rancho Shocks. Just wondering what else I need to modify to make it all work. Coils are OME851 + 50kg front & OME863 + 200 kg rear.

- Brake lines - I am guessing get new longer ones made
- Sway bars - extend the droppers
- Front castor plates ?? or are 3 deg bushes enough ?
- Adjustable panard rods ? or are stock long enough ??

Anything else I should be looking at ?

Most people seem to go 3" or 5" why is this ? anyone else out there used 4" OME coils ?

Cheers,

turbo42
80 Newbie

Im just trying to work out how someone who professes to be an engineer could be stupid enough to mill the end of a hardened shaft off a gearbox input while its STILL IN THE BOX!

ferrit wrote:Im just trying to work out how someone who professes to be an engineer could be stupid enough to mill the end of a hardened shaft off a gearbox input while its STILL IN THE BOX!

bloody big mill to do it in too, not something id like to clamp to the table

MUD80D wrote:

Tiny wrote:

Surfection wrote: I don't know what to say to you mate but if you think you're making yourself look good by posting all the crap that you are, think again.
I have known Andrew for many years, as have hundreds of people on Outerlimits that he has helped with information and guidance over the years. I have bought and traded plenty of stuff with Andrew including diffs and lockers and have always been 100% happy. I would trust his word over yours to the end of the earth and emplore other such people to post up. The 4wding community would be a boring place if it wasn't for people such as Dow50r and Dumbdunce helping the younger and less educated among us get through our conversions and rig transformations.

I hope you take this as a lesson to research your conversions properly as I believe it was not Andrews responsibility to tell you if the gearbox would fit or not, just what type of gearbox it was and that it was in good working order which he has said.

Cheers, Jeremy

x 2

X 3

X4


have had excellent advice from andrew in the past, think i bought some hzj brakes to go onto my middy from him. no probs and was a good upgrade for me at the time.

oh, and i have had crappy synchros in my 80 series since i bought it. completely transformed since last oil change, used oil that was recommended on this site, think it is castrol vmx-m 80. an idea maybe?

x5

Andrew is an honest and genuinely helpful, intelligent person, those who know him know this to be fact.

I highly doubt your 'story' Turbo42, even if I didn't have dealings with Andrew I would say it is fairly obvious you are simply refusing to take responsibility for your own mistakes here and judging by your behaviour to the situation it wouldn't surprise me if no one wanted to deal with you on here in future.

Have the synchros been physically inspected/viewed? What is crap about the box when you drove it? Have you compared symptoms to Andrews memory of it?

Did you do an oil change before fitting?

Probably irrelevant but still food for thought: When I bought my last 4Runner I was pleased at how nice the gears changed compared to my old one, a lot less notchy and crunchy on the shifts. The day before a big trip I changed all the oils, putting brand new oil in the gear box also (not same box as yours I know, but still yota) and from that day on the gearchanges were pathetic, especially when cold. It would clunk and chunk between gears, some worse then others, and I spent a month or two working up the courage to get a reco quote.

Till I did some research..... I ended up changing the oil again to a different grade (Castrol VMX-80 I think, it had 75-90 or similar in it as per the manual) and it was like a reco in a bottle. It is now back to how it was when I bought it, I had no idea oils could make such a difference. If the oil grade is wrong (age of box can influence grade needed) it can't get between the synchro teeth enough and you get chattery crunchy shifts.

I assume it's a time consuming test if it's not in your truck still, but it's about all I can offer.

nobody likes making mistakes. nobody likes getting ripped off. feeling like you might have done both can get you really steamed. it's only human to try and find someone to blame. (My wife seems to have figured out the solution for this - I wear a lot of blame for all sorts of things I didn't know I had control over - like the weather - eg I got wet getting out of the car because the garage is full of junk - like as if the junk in the garage somehow miraculously made it rain!) Anyway, my point is, assigning blame and even getting Andrew to refund some or all of your cash is not going to repair the gearbox or get your truck back on the road.


Andrew is amongst the most honest people I know (and I even go to church ) and trying to place blame in a situation like this is like trying to teach a pig to sing - it just wastes your time and annoys the pig. It seems strage to me (and, on face value, a lot of people), that after years of honest dealings, Andrew would deliberately sell a junk gearbox and call it good.

It also seems strange to me that an alleged engineer would modify a hardened, high precision component without either first removing it from the mechanism or doing the required research to see if there were any other alternative methods of making the gearbox fit the motor in question. For example, since it seems you had/have access to a fairly large milling machine, it should have been possible, with a large diameter flycutter, to face off 5mm from each end of the bellhousing, and fit a spacer behind the spigot bearing, or fit a spigot bearing with an extended inner race, to make up the deficit in the input shaft length. Or, at the point of finding out that after all the trouble of finding a bargain price gearbox and having it there ready to bolt in, it didn't fit, deciding to cut your losses and shelve the project for another day. If you work in or around the automotive industry, you well know that sometimes things don't go to plan even when it should be a simple case of replacing like with like, just doing repairs, and modifications open up another whole realm of possibilities of brokenness. Things just don't go to plan, stuff ends up more expensive than you thought it would, things need doing twice and four times to get it how you want it.

now I understand you have a 1HZ motor and need a gearbox to fit it. I have in my possession a H150F gearbox in UNKNOWN condition, which, as far as I know, was once bolted to a 1HZ motor. it turns at both ends without excessive slop, makes no bad noises when turned by hand, there is no evidence of oil leaks, there were no chunks of brass or steel in the oil, and it selects all gears. This gearbox comes with NO WARRANTY, however I am willing to sell it to Andrew for exactly the amount I happen to owe him for a previous transaction for which an amount is still outstanding. From there, hopefully between the two of you, you can work something out freight wise. I'm sure there is sufficient outerlimits traffic going up and down the east coast to make it inexpensive for everyone especially considering the publicity surrounding these alleged dodgy dealings.

Everyone take a deep breath and relax. nobody has deliberately ripped anyone off, and you wouldn't find a jury to convict Andrew from within the outerlimits population. Mistakes may have been made on both sides of a transaction which has been made more difficult due to distance and expense.

dow50r, Turbo42, do you guys want to use my spare box to help you kiss and make up?

feel the love (no, that's a shifter in my pocket)

DD

ferog wrote:

feel the lurve!

Ok .. firstly I didn't start this post and didn't comment on it until Andrew sent me an email saying

"I have asked the audience about what they think about the situation... they all sided with me...therefore my hands are tied,"

and a link to this thread so I had a look and added my comments.

I could post pages of emails and PM's which support everything I have said.

At the end of the day you are not a murderer until you kill someone, not a thief until you steal something and not an internet pirate until you fleece someone.

When I first spoke to Andrew he said he had no money and couldn't refund me even if he wanted to, end of story, since then it has grown. So maybe he just needed the $$$ so he took the opportunity to fleece me, I don't know.

Yeah I modified the box.. I do not believe this has anything to do with the issue. I offered right from the start to take it to a transmission guy, who Andrew could pick and have him inspect it, I never asked Andrew to pay for this. He has declined at every opportunity, seems to me if you were honest and intended to do the right thing you would have taken this opportunity to prove yourself right, unless of course he knew what I did, that the box was crap and the transmission guy was going to agree with me.

Since then he has said if I do this and that and send it back he will refund me, I have said NO, how about we use a third party to pick the box up and hand the $$$ over. I am hardly going to pull the box out, pull it down, put in a new shaft as requested, pack it up and ship it back to some guy I do not trust so he can look at it and say NO REFUND for you... now he has the box and the $$$$.

Andrew has shown no interest and getting anyone neutral involved. Although in his last emails he did say

"I will be sending a mate over to have a chat to you about your attitude"

to which I was quite happy and responded

"You had better send me your Mates phone number so I can make sure I am there to chat to him."

Funnily enough Andrew has since decided his mate will not be paying me a visit as he has had yet another change of mind.

I do not doubt that people have had good dealings with Andrew, I did a few searches before buying the box off him, that was half the reason I trusted him.

I find it funny that a persons experience is judged by some to be based on the number of posts they have made on an internet forum, I guess the PAD MONSTERS do have it right, maybe I should get BJ ON ROIDS to lend me some of his posts, then I would have heaps ...

For all those out there who have commented on me being a dick for posting and what a great guy Andrew is, I am happy for you, you are entitled to your opinion and I wish you well with it.

dumbdunce wrote: now I understand you have a 1HZ motor and need a gearbox to fit it. I have in my possession a H150F gearbox in UNKNOWN condition, which, as far as I know, was once bolted to a 1HZ motor. it turns at both ends without excessive slop, makes no bad noises when turned by hand, there is no evidence of oil leaks, there were no chunks of brass or steel in the oil, and it selects all gears. This gearbox comes with NO WARRANTY, however I am willing to sell it to Andrew for exactly the amount I happen to owe him for a previous transaction for which an amount is still outstanding. From there, hopefully between the two of you, you can work something out freight wise. I'm sure there is sufficient outerlimits traffic going up and down the east coast to make it inexpensive for everyone especially considering the publicity surrounding these alleged dodgy dealings.

Everyone take a deep breath and relax. nobody has deliberately ripped anyone off, and you wouldn't find a jury to convict Andrew from within the outerlimits population. Mistakes may have been made on both sides of a transaction which has been made more difficult due to distance and expense.

dow50r, Turbo42, do you guys want to use my spare box to help you kiss and make up?

feel the love (no, that's a shifter in my pocket)

DD

Thanks for the offer, it would be a refreshing change to buy a box of someone who gave it an honest description and not an inflated one in an attempt to sell it.

BUT I will not be putting another untested unit into the 80 series and plan of getting the old one rebuilt and then swapping them over if I keep it.

turbo42 wrote:I find it funny that a persons experience is judged by some to be based on the number of posts they have made on an internet forum, I guess the PAD MONSTERS do have it right, maybe I should get BJ ON ROIDS to lend me some of his posts, then I would have heaps ...

And i find it funny that no one here has mentioned anything about how many posts either of you have. Well, sorry no one but you

turbo42 wrote: Yeah I modified the box.. I do not believe this has anything to do with the issue.

Since then he has said if I do this and that and send it back he will refund me, I have said NO, how about we use a third party to pick the box up and hand the $$$ over. I am hardly going to pull the box out, pull it down, put in a new shaft as requested, pack it up and ship it back to some guy I do not trust so he can look at it and say NO REFUND for you... now he has the box and the $$$$.

Just on those 2 parts of your post it says it all.

Because you feel you have been ripped off your the one likely to get the money and then keep the box as its all ready in your rig.

RUFF wrote:

turbo42 wrote:I find it funny that a persons experience is judged by some to be based on the number of posts they have made on an internet forum, I guess the PAD MONSTERS do have it right, maybe I should get BJ ON ROIDS to lend me some of his posts, then I would have heaps ...

And i find it funny that no one here has mentioned anything about how many posts either of you have. Well, sorry no one but you

I agree, everyone has mentioned about dealing with Andrew (buying and selling) not chating online.

RUFF wrote:

turbo42 wrote:I find it funny that a persons experience is judged by some to be based on the number of posts they have made on an internet forum, I guess the PAD MONSTERS do have it right, maybe I should get BJ ON ROIDS to lend me some of his posts, then I would have heaps ...

And i find it funny that no one here has mentioned anything about how many posts either of you have. Well, sorry no one but you

mm I think you will find Andrew did when he posted the thread from the 80 series forum.

turbo42 wrote: mm I think you will find Andrew did when he posted the thread from the 80 series forum.

I have amended my earlier post so u can better understand what i was saying...that there is a red bit in my third post on this subject.... Ruff is talking about total post counts i think you will find.
This all highlights how misunderstandings can blow out of proportion when communicating this way....
i have asked others on here to speak up about your claim in your earlier post, that you are not the first to be shat on by me....i simply called your bluff, and i originally emailed this thread so you could read what others think about whats right to do in this situation...and respond.
I have found it hard to whether all the abuse directed at me right from the start, i am sorry that you have been put out of pocket, i am upset that you think i would let you pay for all the out of pockets knowing the box was bad.
Its worth my while to offer a refund simply so i can sleep well at night....i dont know anyone who has a spare $500 to throw down the drain, but if it helps you out, i have $500 for my box back, because im guessing your original problem was wrong oil and your simply trying to recoup cost.
Andrew

Toli wrote:Turbo42 can I assume that this is the gear box for sale?

http://www.offroad80s.com/viewtopic.php?t=985

For those that can not access the site here is a copy of the add. Now if I have read the thread right and with my limited mechanical knowledge should you have mentioned the modification to the input shaft. Or is this not part of the gear box?

ITEM:
Toyota 5 Speed Gearbox, from GXL Cruiser, suit 3F

CONDITION:
I was told very good with guarantee, in fact it is crap.

REASON FOR SELLING:
Got sold it to me as a Guaranteed good box, well after fitting it to the 80 series it is crap and I was lied to. Luckily he had given it a guarantee, but unluckily he is not an honest guy.

PRICE AND PRICE CONDITIONS:
$1200, just trying to cover the cost of buying it, shipping it, and installing it, removing it etc.

EXTRA INFO:
Box is crap but is being sold with an honest description, not the dishonest one gave me. I am not giving the box any sort of warranty as I know it is crap and don’t wish to be dishonest and rip someone off.

LOCATION:
Stafford, BRISBANE

CONTACT:
PM

PICTURES:
Looks like a great box but has crappy syncro’s, can provide pictures to potential buyers if req’d.

As a mod from the above mentioned forum, I had to edit the original post as I didnt like the way it blatently defamed dow50r (that sort of shit dosent go down well on my forum!). There is alway two sides to the story, by reading the posts I belive Andrew is in the right here. You modified the box (you said so yourself) so I think its totally unreasonable to expect to get your money back so just deal with the box that you most likely stuffed

My observations are:-
Firstly I believe both parties are telling the truth but stuff happens.

I think Turbo42 has 2 options.
Send the box back for a 50% refund or don't send it back and have no further dealings with dow50r.

You can't chalk it down to internet gone wrong. There would be no difference off the internet except no-one would hear anything more about it.

I believe you can trust dow50r to refund 50% if he agrees to the terms, you did modify the box and didn't research it enough before doing the modification. He is a business and a bad rep for him will cost him a hell of a lot more then what it will cost you.

Somone has asked what oil you are running. This may help your problem, as far as I can tell it is pretty vague to what the problem actually is. So what oil do you have in it?

This thread has just made you both look bad so I would be asking for a moderator to delete it all together if it were me once this has been soughted.

Another solution would be to sell the Toyota and get a decent 4WD.

If there are any plans to send this box back, I have pretty good courier rates and I could send it down for you. I am at Loganholme, South Side of Brisbane.

Shane

4WD Stuff wrote: Somone has asked what oil you are running. This may help your problem, as far as I can tell it is pretty vague to what the problem actually is. So what oil do you have in it?

Thanks, I thought I was the only one that could see my post. I figure instead of wasting bandwidth by slanging each other, why not work on the problem itself.

4WD Stuff wrote:
Somone has asked what oil you are running. This may help your problem, as far as I can tell it is pretty vague to what the problem actually is. So what oil do you have in it?

THere is a recent thread about 80 series oils.

Early boxes (and a 3f is early) have shifting problems. and using a castrol oil (recommended ion the thread) helps the problem.

Perhaps turbo42's origional box was a later one, perhaps he is expecting too much from this older box. He doesn't really explain the problem -
"it shifts crap" is rather vague at best, and for a 'engineer' is a very lame attempt at describing the problem.

I know no one here personally but I know who i'm believing...

Guys, i thank you one and all for your words of wisdom. Further emails from Brad offlist have us no closer to sorting things out.
I have listened to all your advice and opinions, and i an happy that my original stand is what has generally been reflected in your replies.
ooking on the bright side, i am going to be famous for nothing.
Andrew

People pay very good money for publicity.

No harm done I think, I am sure no-one here will ever bring it up or pay out on you.

I am sure it will be all forgotten and no-one will post more in this thread to bring it back up to the top of the page, ever.

Shane

[quote="dow50r"]Guys, i stand by my honest dealings with all of you on here over the last 7 years....i
Also, i would love to know, who else on here has received a bad deal from me in the past 7 years, as stated earlier????? Please post it up in support of one of us.
quote]

Interesting dispute their guys.

I will be able to support one case or the other soon. i purchased a radiator off andrew at nissan trials for my tufftruck build.
it appears now i got it sitting there, it has a coolant leak stain.
im hoping this is just from sitting around before i bought it and isnt due to it having a hole or leak.

I am going to have it pressure tested in the next week or 2, in which case i will be able to comment further.
Either i will be saying Dowsor gave me a fair deal or i will be wanting a refund.

All my dealings so far with Andrew have been as good as i could hope for - i will not hesitate to deal with him again.

Hope you guys sort this out.

I am a happy customer too.. i have bought a bit of stuff off Andrew, and he has even given me sum stuff and posted at his expense and i have never had a problem!