Outer Limits 4x4 Board

i havent much to add to anything that has been said apart from my personal opinions.

ive been thinking about building up a hydrolic wich setup, mainly cause im a 4th year fitter and turner, and am curently studying fluid power as a post trade cert. it gives me a goal to work towards.

and the way i see it for when the car stalls and you cant run the motor to run the winch, you can do ither of two things,( some one mentioned to me that there are hydrolic pumps that have mechanical drive and elctric drive back up or if they dont come like that having a set up that allows that) as some one mentioned running a 12v electric hydrolic pump off the battery is going to use less current than the winch motor?? i could be remnbering that wrong so any one with the knowlege please fix what i just said and put me straight. i only see that if its possible, of beign of use in comps.

for me, when i go out i will always take my hand winch with me, and that will serve my purpose when the car cant be run.


cheers fellas

alistair

i have never competed, but my guess is if you are going in comps your engine is going to be fairly water resistant, and i would imagine that having your engine stop my be the result of a bigger problem, there fore not being able to winch might not be your biggest concern. i would risk a hyd set up in comps....

serg

I agree with Serg. If you run a good solid engine and a well thought out hydraulic system you would be competitive.

you need an electric winch for recovery ie. when you've put it on its side and are unable to keep the motor running.

mid mount the hyd winch and have a high mount 24v 6hp rear winch.

just a quick question guys, how many hp is the pto on a nissan 5speed box rated at.
i heard 9hp. is this correct?

just a thought, howabout a bobcat pump/motor setup. cheap and available

has any body tried building a pump drive by making an out put shaft in the transfercase that has a flange facing backwards as well as the one facing fowards for the front tail shaft.
if you get that right, sky's the limit regarding hp transfer
using a variable swash plate piston pump that can be nulled whilst driving(as well as a P to T spool center) that might be possible.

also i would build the tank into an oil cooler with a thermo. 20lt min

just my uneducated ramblings

Hey Hammy you guys ready for round one? make sure u bring drinking boots and tell smithy to bring plenty of mars bars I`ll see if thay`ll let us bring bike for a few weelies! Getting back to hydrolics they will be the go like we were talking and definatly squelsh plate.Anyone who is confused by some of the tec crap(like me) and to not rant on the reason there arn`t alot of hydrolic set up around apart from the obvious size and weight is the simple 1 to 1.For whatever horsepower you want to produce it takes that amount of horsepower to drive it.That is why an eletic over hyd is a wast of time, you may as well put the electric motors straight on the winch.eg If you gear it down you have a lack of speed problem,If you gear it up you have a lack of power problem.

Michael Whyte was running a very good hydraulic with electric back up in NZ about 4 or 5 years ago. He took off the elctric back up as it was very heavy and he never needed it.
Hydraulic is great. Fast strong etc etc. Far more reliable than a PTO but it is still not perfect. There is no perfect winch, like there is no perfect 4x4. If hydraulic was the best then they would win every comp in NZ and they don't.
You can get a hydraulic to work for not a lot of $ but to make it go well you will spend a lot! Th winches over here do not run factory motors, factory specs or virtually anything factory except the drum, gearbox and brake.
Engineers are the worst when it comes to hydraulic winches as they will quote a whole lot of theory that is completely true but isn't entirely acurate when it comes to high speed winches. The setups that I've seen that work well are not designed to the rules. So if you are going to geta hydraulic winch built then make sure the person doing it has practical experience with the type of winch you want. ie They can say "last time I did this" If they can't then be prepared for it not to do what you want first time around.

Also a GQ PTO can winch in any gear including reverse. ie to turn around winch in and back up, and this is standard. But they still break really easily, and a twin24v 6hp is not much slower.

I don't care what anyone say's the cheapest fastest winch is the PTO the winch isn't the only think that win's the comp.There is one thing you can't buy LUCK

Does anyone know of a cheap supplier of belt driven chinese pumps?

Seems the winches are easy to get - milemarker or chinese, it's the pump that's the problem.

Valve bodies and lines can be found one way or another, they aren't uncommon.

Paul

Hey Billy, i'm in mate. i'll make sure i bring a whole packet of mars bars, one for every stack....

paul.
perhaps try a cheap Casapa aluminium vane pump, they tend to come with a keyed shaft which you can then put whatever pully you want on.
would a gilmore drive work for what you want???

nzdarin
just a quick qustion mate, how well does the air free spool option work on an H8PN

cheers smitty

Most of the hydraulic winchs I've seen power out rather than free spool. They don't destruct like a 24v 6hp without load, so I can't coment on the freespool.

Hi Guys,
I found this while surfing the net.

http://www.4x4winches.com/index.php?page=type_r.htm

The video at the bottom of the page shows how fast a hydraulic winch can be.

a great test of just how much grunt a wich really does have, and exactly where and when they fail!!

http://www.winchtest.com/index.html

If you've seen 07 alpine challange dvd you will notice that Sandy Bowman runs a pto and he tells me that it's very quick and swears by it

1MadEngineer wrote:a great test of just how much grunt a wich really does have, and exactly where and when they fail!!

http://www.winchtest.com/index.html

after reading that I am even more happy that I have PTO