Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I just checked out the ccda specs again and it states that I can go up to a 35.5 inch tyre and track increase is free, although only 50mm wb increase, but I'll just move rear diff back into orignal position. which means now my only issue for ccda registration is the engine type and it states that only engines of that vehicles make and model are allowed. So I hope that means the g13bb. If it doesn't then I'll go G16 of J20A and just wheel it in the bush and navruns etc.

Can anyone confirm J20A to sierra gearbox can use the G16 Adaptor plate?

dank wrote:I just checked out the ccda specs again and it states that I can go up to a 35.5 inch tyre and track increase is free, although only 50mm wb increase, but I'll just move rear diff back into orignal position. which means now my only issue for ccda registration is the engine type and it states that only engines of that vehicles make and model are allowed. So I hope that means the g13bb. If it doesn't then I'll go G16 of J20A and just wheel it in the bush and navruns etc.

Can anyone confirm J20A to sierra gearbox can use the G16 Adaptor plate?

Use the Vitara gearbox not the sierra is stronger and ratio's seem better.

SAM

I think you'll be in trouble with make and model.

A g13BB is from a Jimny not a Sierra.

as an aside, the BB produces more than 10% more power than a carby so it requires a cert to be legal even though it's the same series of motor and capacity.

Sam, how is the tailshaft housing resolved on a vitara manual? I've made a plate for a vitara trimatic to use a sierra yoke/jackshaft but I guess the same would be required for a vitara manual?

fair enough, but for the sake of keeping it simple and using what I have currently available will the J20A bolt up to the sierra gearbox with a G16 adapter plate? thats all I want to know. I'm happy with the ratios i currently have.

Thanks for the info on the vit box though, as it may be an option.

I believe so.

The bigger problem is resolving cooling with the J20.

The J20 will emit about almost 100% more heat than the 1.3 (100% more power, give or take) It's going to take a bit to keep cool, especially when the sump etc is covered in mud and 1/2 the radiator is full. Add in no engine fan and it could get dicey.

engine bay clearances also tend to mean the fans have to be pushers not pullers and these are also generally less effective.

Recent experience has shown a G16B with a mechanical (fixed) engine fan and 1.3 radiator ran fine until a small amount of radiator was blocked by mud (maybe 20%) and the bonnet and sump were covered in thick mud. Mud is an excellent insulator and will trap LOTS of heat in the engine/engine bay.

Bear in mind that lots of the US J20 experience is from crawling in rock (hot but clean) or mud in cold conditions. We can get deep mud on a real hot/humid day and that's the killer.

Steve.

Gwagensteve wrote:I think you'll be in trouble with make and model.

A g13BB is from a Jimny not a Sierra.

as an aside, the BB produces more than 10% more power than a carby so it requires a cert to be legal even though it's the same series of motor and capacity.

all I can say is...shit...I'll contact a ccda scrutineer and see how flexible the rules are.

Gwagensteve wrote:I think you'll be in trouble with make and model.

A g13BB is from a Jimny not a Sierra.

as an aside, the BB produces more than 10% more power than a carby so it requires a cert to be legal even though it's the same series of motor and capacity.

Sam, how is the tailshaft housing resolved on a vitara manual? I've made a plate for a vitara trimatic to use a sierra yoke/jackshaft but I guess the same would be required for a vitara manual?

All you do is make a new jack shaft from the vit manual to transfer. The manual box has a bearing right at the end of the box which supports the output shaft.The auto doesn't thats whay you need to make an adapter to bolt the 2 together so the shaft doesn' t move.

I think you will find you will be able to use the 13bb engine cause from memory the rule means you can use another engine as long as it was made by the same manufacturer not out of the same model.

SAM

Fair enough - that's far easier than even an adapter plate then, and the vit gearbox shoudl be stronger. If nothing else, most will be newer/easier life.

Re the G13BB - The 10% increase in power kills a direct swap without cert here in vic.

Also, the different emission regs require a sealed evap system etc and this should be certed.

Steve.

OVERKILL ENG wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote:I think you'll be in trouble with make and model.

A g13BB is from a Jimny not a Sierra.

as an aside, the BB produces more than 10% more power than a carby so it requires a cert to be legal even though it's the same series of motor and capacity.

I think you will find you will be able to use the 13bb engine cause from memory the rule means you can use another engine as long as it was made by the same manufacturer not out of the same model.

SAM

Straight from the ccda handbook most recent edition:

Production Class
4.4.10 ENGINE
The original engine for that vehicle model shall be retained unmodified except that alternative engine management systems can be used.

Diesel engines may be fitted with an factory turbocharger, factory fitted intercoolers may be retain.

Petrol engines, no intercoolers, supercharges or turbo to be fitted.
Snorkels and aftermarket air filters are free.

Oil filters are free except the original method of attachment shall be retained.

To me this rule suggests that nothing except the G13 carby model can be used. I have emailed matt fenner a ccda scrutineer at ARB Dandenong for clarification. we'll see how we go.

If its as you say Sam, then wouldn't I be better off sourcing a M13 from a later model jimny? with coil packs? Or the way you describe it suggests that I can use a G16b if it only has to be from the same manufacturer....hmmm

M13's have a different bellhousing bolt pattern so you would have to run a Jimny auto (no bad thing) or a jimny manual and have the gearshift lever pretty much on top of the low range lever.

X2 looks like you'll be stuck with the carby to run CCDA production.

Steve.

[quote]Production Class
4.4.10 ENGINE
The original engine for that vehicle model shall be retained unmodified except that alternative engine management systems can be used. [quote]


Reads to me like you can ditch the carby and run EFI,as long as its on the
g13.
Something like thottlebody injection aftermarket ECU,coil pack per cylinder like jimnys would work well.

Ok looks like I read it wrong

Of course the engine management system could refer to the ECU not the whole shooting match. The purpose could be to allow you to tune the engine similar to jet replacement in a carby.

Will be interesting to see exactly how its interpreted.

MightyMouse wrote:Of course the engine management system could refer to the ECU not the whole shooting match. The purpose could be to allow you to tune the engine similar to jet replacement in a carby.

Will be interesting to see exactly how its interpreted.

That's my interpretation too MM.

Aftermarket ECU's aren't going to make wholesale changes to power output on an otherwise standard engine and would be very difficult to enforce/prove are an advantage.

Changing the Induction system though could open a whole can of worms for a production category.

Steve.

I've contacted a few people and will follow up on tuesday when places are open. We'll soon find out the clarification on the rules....i'll keep people updated

woo g13bb the only thing i still don't have working on mine is the tacho ...

awesome simple straight forward reliable conversion.

just make sure you do the rear main before you chuck it in mine went a week after putting it in


the motor is a lot cleaner now, that was the day i put it in.

spamwell wrote:woo g13bb the only thing i still don't have working on mine is the tacho ...

awesome simple straight forward reliable conversion.

just make sure you do the rear main before you chuck it in mine went a week after putting it in

ditto on points above....

haha thanks boys. Yeah looks like an easy conversion. I'm just going to wait until I can get hold of one of the ccda scrutineers and see how lenient they are with engine swaps for production class vehicles. The g13bb is definitely a high contender if they say I can use a zook engine of the same capacity but also the g13b gti engine has a lot of aftermarket support and even though some ppl think it might not be a suitable swap I like revvy engines and my zook is geared pretty low even for highway use (lower than stock anyway), so an engine that likes sitting up in the 5-7k rpm range and making power up there would suit my needs pretty well.

If ccda say I can't us anything except the g13a carby then I'll prob go the J20a with G16 to sierra adapter, source a BIG radiator and thermos and be done with it, and just wheel it in challenge class. I'm not there to win anyway, I just want to have fun and run some sweet tracks under comp conditions. The J20a with all bits + adapter I can get for around 1k hopefully compared to a G16mpfi which is up around 1.5 -2k.

This is what i use to get me around G16b tweaked
[img][img]http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh22 ... 6Large.jpg[/img][/img]

dank wrote:haha thanks boys. Yeah looks like an easy conversion. I'm just going to wait until I can get hold of one of the ccda scrutineers and see how lenient they are with engine swaps for production class vehicles. The g13bb is definitely a high contender if they say I can use a zook engine of the same capacity but also the g13b gti engine has a lot of aftermarket support and even though some ppl think it might not be a suitable swap I like revvy engines and my zook is geared pretty low even for highway use (lower than stock anyway), so an engine that likes sitting up in the 5-7k rpm range and making power up there would suit my needs pretty well.

If ccda say I can't us anything except the g13a carby then I'll prob go the J20a with G16 to sierra adapter, source a BIG radiator and thermos and be done with it, and just wheel it in challenge class. I'm not there to win anyway, I just want to have fun and run some sweet tracks under comp conditions. The J20a with all bits + adapter I can get for around 1k hopefully compared to a G16mpfi which is up around 1.5 -2k.

yeah to be honest the main reason i did not go the j20a was because there was no way anyone up here was going to even look at engineering it for me. Just buying a g16 was going to cost me more than my whole conversion ended up being including fuel pump and fuel lines and what not.

Something to consider....cheers

simcoz wrote:This is what i use to get me around G16b tweaked
[img][img]http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh22 ... 6Large.jpg[/img][/img]

mate i'm really keen to build something like this oneday as I've built a few bolt on set ups with fwd sr20's with different t25's, t28's in the past.

The more I think about it I'm liking the idea of this... injectors are top feed which opens up heaps of options for those.

I was thinking of using a t25 off a ca18det silvia as they have a smaller .48 exhaust housing and can be picked up for a good price.

Also would be great to get idea's on what ecu's people choose for boost application. Would be good to find something that has a g16b base programme as this will help cold start drivability.

I would not start this without at least an engine rebuild to suit boost with low compression pistons or if standard compression was retained i'd limit boost to say 7psi.

Any advice you can share my way simcoz would great like ecu selection, injector choice, turbo choices, any advice at all!!! This is to throw into my carbed vitara.

Ditto Simcoz.

did u make your own manifold?