Notice: We request that you don't just set up a new account at this time if you are a previous user.
If you used to be one of our moderators, please feel free to reach out to Chris via the facebook Outerlimits4x4 group and he will get you set back up with access should he need you.
Recovery:If you cannot access your old email address and don't remember your password, please click here to log a change of email address so you can do a password reset.

Diffs! Weld or Not? no arb junkies

General Tech Talk

Moderators: toaddog, TWISTY, V8Patrol, Moderators

Posts: 7345
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 3:29 pm
Location: Melbourne

Post by Gwagensteve »

Your logic is sound, but really, when you're in and out of a car a couple of times a track locking and unlocking hubs, you really get over it.

No, unlocking one hub won't necessarily do any real damage.

Steve.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
Posts: 662
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:02 pm
Location: Picton

Post by Tazz »

Gwagensteve wrote:sorry, I'm obviously not hardcore enough, but occaisionally, I drive on tracks that don't require a front locker. In terms of Km travelled per trip, 90% of the time, there's no need to have the front locker in.

Have a think about, on the average trip, how much of the time between leaving the bitumen to getting back on the tar you spend with the front locker in?

Even on the average hard track.... 90% of the time you might need low range but not the front locker.

I've been driving cars with front lockers for 15 years and wouldn't be without one, but for driving on actual tracks, they're not required most of the time.

Steve.
Not questioning your hardcoreness, you could be hard as steel for all I know, just questioned the "so rarely require a front locker" statement.

The fact that you don't need it all the time.....well that could be said for suspension mods, barwork and aggressive tyres. But when you do you wouldn't want to be without the whole package, and for someone that regularly wants to drive harder terrain I would definitely consider a front locker to be part of the package.

I agree with everything else you said re a welded diff as they can be a PITA, but questioned your belief that a front locker is virtually unnecessary thats all.
Offroad Performance Warehouse
1300 679 494
www.opw.com.au - tazz@opw.com.au
www.jd2.com.au - tazz@jd2.com.au
Posts: 4583
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:57 pm
Location: Wheeling in my backyard

Post by sierrajim »

Gwagensteve wrote:sorry, I'm obviously not hardcore enough, but occaisionally, I drive on tracks that don't require a front locker. In terms of Km travelled per trip, 90% of the time, there's no need to have the front locker in.

Have a think about, on the average trip, how much of the time between leaving the bitumen to getting back on the tar you spend with the front locker in?

Even on the average hard track.... 90% of the time you might need low range but not the front locker.

I've been driving cars with front lockers for 15 years and wouldn't be without one, but for driving on actual tracks, they're not required most of the time.

Steve.
But it's the times that you do require it that makes the difference.
[quote="Harb"]Well I'm guessing that they didn't think everyone would carry on like a big bunch of sooky girls over it like they have........[/quote]
User avatar
udm
Posts: 659
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:35 pm

Post by udm »

ive had my car unlocked for about 2 years, and welding the diffs has never been an option... a little patience eventually got me front and rear lockers pretty cheap ;)

just my 2c
Ulises

www.OzSigns.com - 0400008422
Posts: 16934
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2002 6:57 pm

Post by RUFF »

Tazz wrote:
Gwagensteve wrote: A front locker is so rarely required when off road .

Steve.
What the???
I found this strange as well. When im in a rig with selectable lockers I will generally engage the front locker long before the rear. And in competition I rarely engage the rear unless I absolutly have to.
Posts: 16934
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2002 6:57 pm

Post by RUFF »

Personaly on a trail rig i wouldnt run a welded front but lots do. If its cheap you want then go for it. Just make sure you have a passenger to unlock a hub when you need it.
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:04 pm
Location: BLUE MOUNTAINS

Post by FAT GQ »

just buy an air locker ya cheapskate......
do it right do it once
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:56 pm
Location: Melbourne

Post by cody82 »

dont weld the front due to poor turning circle, just weld the rear works pretty good although its a little dodgy but I had one for in my last lux and worked well, cheaper then getting a air locker especially if you truck is only worth just more then the air locker it self!
Posts: 2169
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:41 pm
Location: melbourne

Post by joeblow »

RUFF wrote:
Tazz wrote:
Gwagensteve wrote: A front locker is so rarely required when off road .

Steve.
What the???
I found this strange as well. When im in a rig with selectable lockers I will generally engage the front locker long before the rear. And in competition I rarely engage the rear unless I absolutly have to.
i have to agree with steve, maybe its just that suzukis rarley need a front locker [ or a rear one!] . by locking the front more so than the rear axle life might be an issue, but depends what vehicle. many, many, many rears ago, before arb had lockers for zooks, i did weld up the front....what a freakin pain in the arse unlocking and locking hubs....eventually one side wore more than the other...and you know what happens then.
lwb 1.6efi,4sp auto,f&r airlockers,dual t/cases.custom coils.builder of ROAD LEGAL custom suzukis...and other stuff.
CAD modelling-TECH drawings-DXF preparation.
http://www.auszookers.com/index.php
Posts: 2297
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:23 pm
Location: Melbourne-Australia

Post by MightyMouse »

Have to agree with Steve on this one, yes a front locker is a fantastic addition to any 4WD - it can make the difference sometimes, but for me only for a small percentage of most trips. The rest of the time the improvements to steering of an unlocked front really pay off.

Its funny to see the welded or mechanical locked, 3 point turning on corners an unlocked front gets around with ease. Locking and unlocking a hub also seems to bug people very quickly.

Perhaps its small vehicle thing, "heavies" might be different - but in my watching those that have them - they only use them, especially the fronts, on the really hard stuff.

I think there's also some satisfaction from driving "technical" lines using the least mechanical assistance available for some people.

As for options like tyres and suspension being only required a small percentage of the time - thats also true BUT you cant just flick a switch to turn on and off Swampers or body lift ( well I can't anyway... )

I'd much rather have lockers than not, but my preference is to use them as required not all the time.
( usual disclaimers )

It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
Posts: 1379
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 8:28 pm
Location: West of Woodridge, North of Ipswich, South of Oxley, East of Wacol

Post by chikoroll_ »

;) get an LSD and drive with the foot slightly on the brake

acts the same as a locker, but you control it 100%, and never have to press buttons, it increases road safety also
'98 Jackaroo
Bullbar, 32" muddies, Homebrew Timber centre console, Homebrew 3" Stainless rubber bend snorkel, Homebrew Steel rear bumper, Campervan interior
Posts: 14209
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:36 am
Location: Adelaide

Post by -Scott- »

chikoroll_ wrote:;) get an LSD and drive with the foot slightly on the brake

acts the same as a locker, but you control it 100%, and never have to press buttons, it increases road safety also
The foot on the brake trick only works with "ramp-loading" style LSDs (like his Nissan has), but not all. And it may work to get you out of trouble occasionally, but "the same as a locker"? No.
Posts: 3038
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 10:06 pm
Location: VIC

Post by dogbreath_48 »

chikoroll_ wrote:;) get an LSD...acts the same as a locker...
No, it doesn't.

I agree with steve, a front locker will be used less than 10% of the time.

I suppose it depends what kind of driving. I know in victoria (for the most part) at least i'd never consider welding the front. But maybe more practical for 4x4 parks and areas with hard rocky obstacles with easy access.

-Stu :)
Posts: 221
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 9:00 am
Location: canberra

Post by blade 929 »

i welded mine had it for years never broke anything ever , it depends on your driving style etc and i went in 2nissan trials with it , but when i put in the lux diffs (this is in my zook ) i again welded front and rear , but had major issues with turning circle (due more to my steering setup) as i found out in willoglen so i went with an air locker and it made driving the nissan trials sooo much better. but if i had the choice of welded or open i'd be welded all the way , i dont do any long trips though and i prefer the harder stuff , and dont forget with a rear welded it will cause slight steering issues as well (understeer) on hard surfaces .

my patrol is air locked front and rear and id never weld it simply because its just a touring / shopping vehicle ,in saying that though i would think differently if i didn't have the $$$ at the time to do it ? but if its a play vehicle do it .

weld it if you dont like it just replace the centre with an open one from the wreckers later .

as for breakages a lot of people break cv's being open as well ,using excessive speed to get up steep climbs jumping around and lifting the front end and coming down "pop" were with welded diffs you get (generally) more traction aqllowing you to drive at a slower more controled pace . Up hills because the front is lighter there is no steering issues what so ever , but coming down is another story :D
Posts: 7345
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 3:29 pm
Location: Melbourne

Post by Gwagensteve »

My point was that the welded is a PITA the whole time you're off road, regardless of whether you need it or not.

I agree that for a trials type comp they might be viable. On a track driven car (i.e driving in state forests etc on "normal" tracks) they're not.

Steve.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
Posts: 3132
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:22 pm
Location: Newy

Post by HotFourOk »

chikoroll_ wrote:;) get an LSD and drive with the foot slightly on the brake

acts the same as a locker, but you control it 100%, and never have to press buttons, it increases road safety also
LSD is Nothing like a locker.
[quote="RockyF70 - Coming out of the closet"]i'd be rushing out and buying an IFS rocky[/quote]
Posts: 3064
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Yinnar South, Vic

Post by cloughy »

HotFourOk wrote:
chikoroll_ wrote:;) get an LSD and drive with the foot slightly on the brake

acts the same as a locker, but you control it 100%, and never have to press buttons, it increases road safety also
LSD is Nothing like a locker.
Just like a straight 6 is to a V6

Give him a break, its no this fault is internet educated :D
Wanted: Car trailer or beaver tail truck, let me know what you got
Posts: 2158
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:16 am
Location: New Zealand

Post by KiwiBacon »

HotFourOk wrote: LSD is Nothing like a locker.
With enough LSD, you can convince yourself of anything.
Posts: 3064
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Yinnar South, Vic

Post by cloughy »

KiwiBacon wrote:
HotFourOk wrote: LSD is Nothing like a locker.
With enough LSD, you can convince yourself of anything.
I am Jesus, right? :?
Wanted: Car trailer or beaver tail truck, let me know what you got
Posts: 14209
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:36 am
Location: Adelaide

Post by -Scott- »

cloughy wrote:
KiwiBacon wrote:
HotFourOk wrote: LSD is Nothing like a locker.
With enough LSD, you can convince yourself of anything.
I am Jesus, right? :?
Pop quiz!
Who? wrote:Two men say they're Jesus.
One of them must be wrong.
Posts: 14668
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 7:10 pm
Location: western shitney

Post by j-top paj »

id be locking the front before the rear
Banzy wrote:Dial up internet.........you'd post something and come back 2 beers later to see if it loaded.
my GU
Posts: 734
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:25 pm
Location: Sunshine Coast Queensland

Post by midi73 »

j-top paj wrote:id be locking the front before the rear
What the hell has that got to do with the question? That is an old debate.
Posts: 14209
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:36 am
Location: Adelaide

Post by -Scott- »

j-top paj wrote:id be locking the front before the rear
That's because you drive vehicles with functioning LSDs in the rear. Not everybody has that luxury. :P
Posts: 14668
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 7:10 pm
Location: western shitney

Post by j-top paj »

-Scott- wrote:
j-top paj wrote:id be locking the front before the rear
That's because you drive vehicles with functioning LSDs in the rear. Not everybody has that luxury. :P

:armsup: :armsup: :armsup:


but if i had a locked rear itd be open until its locked
Banzy wrote:Dial up internet.........you'd post something and come back 2 beers later to see if it loaded.
my GU
Posts: 14668
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 7:10 pm
Location: western shitney

Post by j-top paj »

midi73 wrote:
j-top paj wrote:id be locking the front before the rear
What the hell has that got to do with the question? That is an old debate.
the need for a front locker question
Banzy wrote:Dial up internet.........you'd post something and come back 2 beers later to see if it loaded.
my GU
Posts: 378
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 8:54 pm
Location: blue mountians

Post by superzuki »

Gwagensteve wrote:sorry, I'm obviously not hardcore enough, but occaisionally, I drive on tracks that don't require a front locker. In terms of Km travelled per trip, 90% of the time, there's no need to have the front locker in.

Have a think about, on the average trip, how much of the time between leaving the bitumen to getting back on the tar you spend with the front locker in?

Even on the average hard track.... 90% of the time you might need low range but not the front locker.

I've been driving cars with front lockers for 15 years and wouldn't be without one, but for driving on actual tracks, they're not required most of the time.

Steve.
i go 4wding for that 10% of chalenging track. if the tracks dont require 4wd then ill go elsewere.

Diffn out has a patrol with a 6 inch lift and 38s. he has a pathy lsd in the front and usualy unlocks his hubs between hard sections because of this anyway. he wants to know if a welded front will be better.

it sounds like it will be beter in the hard sections but may cause more breakages.

i would think that wiff the welded front less right foot will be needed therfore not puting to much pressure on front cvs.
Posts: 7345
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 3:29 pm
Location: Melbourne

Post by Gwagensteve »

superzuki wrote:
i go 4wding for that 10% of chalenging track. if the tracks dont require 4wd then ill go elsewere.

Diffn out has a patrol with a 6 inch lift and 38s. he has a pathy lsd in the front and usualy unlocks his hubs between hard sections because of this anyway. he wants to know if a welded front will be better.

it sounds like it will be beter in the hard sections but may cause more breakages.

i would think that wiff the welded front less right foot will be needed therfore not puting to much pressure on front cvs.
So do I superzuki, but I won't put up with a bucket to drive on all the in between bits. On balance, I don't think a welded front would be an advantage over the pathy (ramp loading) LSD, and it will cause more breakage.

An arb though.... now you're talking...

Steve.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
Posts: 14668
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 7:10 pm
Location: western shitney

Post by j-top paj »

Gwagensteve wrote:
An arb though.... now you're talking...
or a auto locker for less than half the price ;)
Banzy wrote:Dial up internet.........you'd post something and come back 2 beers later to see if it loaded.
my GU
Posts: 4825
Joined: Sun May 04, 2003 6:33 pm
Location: Berwick vic

Post by droopypete »

j-top paj wrote:
Gwagensteve wrote:
An arb though.... now you're talking...
or a auto locker for less than half the price ;)
and around we go again :)
Peter.
Cable bracing is the way of the future!

v840 said "That sounds like a booty fab, hack job piece of shit no offence."
Posts: 2169
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:41 pm
Location: melbourne

Post by joeblow »

i'm fellin a little dizzy too pete..... :?
lwb 1.6efi,4sp auto,f&r airlockers,dual t/cases.custom coils.builder of ROAD LEGAL custom suzukis...and other stuff.
CAD modelling-TECH drawings-DXF preparation.
http://www.auszookers.com/index.php
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 84 guests