Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Your logic is sound, but really, when you're in and out of a car a couple of times a track locking and unlocking hubs, you really get over it.

No, unlocking one hub won't necessarily do any real damage.

Steve.

Gwagensteve wrote:sorry, I'm obviously not hardcore enough, but occaisionally, I drive on tracks that don't require a front locker. In terms of Km travelled per trip, 90% of the time, there's no need to have the front locker in.

Have a think about, on the average trip, how much of the time between leaving the bitumen to getting back on the tar you spend with the front locker in?

Even on the average hard track.... 90% of the time you might need low range but not the front locker.

I've been driving cars with front lockers for 15 years and wouldn't be without one, but for driving on actual tracks, they're not required most of the time.

Steve.

Not questioning your hardcoreness, you could be hard as steel for all I know, just questioned the "so rarely require a front locker" statement.

The fact that you don't need it all the time.....well that could be said for suspension mods, barwork and aggressive tyres. But when you do you wouldn't want to be without the whole package, and for someone that regularly wants to drive harder terrain I would definitely consider a front locker to be part of the package.

I agree with everything else you said re a welded diff as they can be a PITA, but questioned your belief that a front locker is virtually unnecessary thats all.

Gwagensteve wrote:sorry, I'm obviously not hardcore enough, but occaisionally, I drive on tracks that don't require a front locker. In terms of Km travelled per trip, 90% of the time, there's no need to have the front locker in.

Have a think about, on the average trip, how much of the time between leaving the bitumen to getting back on the tar you spend with the front locker in?

Even on the average hard track.... 90% of the time you might need low range but not the front locker.

I've been driving cars with front lockers for 15 years and wouldn't be without one, but for driving on actual tracks, they're not required most of the time.

Steve.

But it's the times that you do require it that makes the difference.

ive had my car unlocked for about 2 years, and welding the diffs has never been an option... a little patience eventually got me front and rear lockers pretty cheap

just my 2c

Tazz wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote: A front locker is so rarely required when off road .

Steve.

What the???

I found this strange as well. When im in a rig with selectable lockers I will generally engage the front locker long before the rear. And in competition I rarely engage the rear unless I absolutly have to.

Personaly on a trail rig i wouldnt run a welded front but lots do. If its cheap you want then go for it. Just make sure you have a passenger to unlock a hub when you need it.

just buy an air locker ya cheapskate......
do it right do it once

dont weld the front due to poor turning circle, just weld the rear works pretty good although its a little dodgy but I had one for in my last lux and worked well, cheaper then getting a air locker especially if you truck is only worth just more then the air locker it self!

RUFF wrote:

Tazz wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote: A front locker is so rarely required when off road .

Steve.

What the???

I found this strange as well. When im in a rig with selectable lockers I will generally engage the front locker long before the rear. And in competition I rarely engage the rear unless I absolutly have to.

i have to agree with steve, maybe its just that suzukis rarley need a front locker [ or a rear one!] . by locking the front more so than the rear axle life might be an issue, but depends what vehicle. many, many, many rears ago, before arb had lockers for zooks, i did weld up the front....what a freakin pain in the arse unlocking and locking hubs....eventually one side wore more than the other...and you know what happens then.

Have to agree with Steve on this one, yes a front locker is a fantastic addition to any 4WD - it can make the difference sometimes, but for me only for a small percentage of most trips. The rest of the time the improvements to steering of an unlocked front really pay off.

Its funny to see the welded or mechanical locked, 3 point turning on corners an unlocked front gets around with ease. Locking and unlocking a hub also seems to bug people very quickly.

Perhaps its small vehicle thing, "heavies" might be different - but in my watching those that have them - they only use them, especially the fronts, on the really hard stuff.

I think there's also some satisfaction from driving "technical" lines using the least mechanical assistance available for some people.

As for options like tyres and suspension being only required a small percentage of the time - thats also true BUT you cant just flick a switch to turn on and off Swampers or body lift ( well I can't anyway... )

I'd much rather have lockers than not, but my preference is to use them as required not all the time.

get an LSD and drive with the foot slightly on the brake

acts the same as a locker, but you control it 100%, and never have to press buttons, it increases road safety also

chikoroll_ wrote: get an LSD and drive with the foot slightly on the brake

acts the same as a locker, but you control it 100%, and never have to press buttons, it increases road safety also

The foot on the brake trick only works with "ramp-loading" style LSDs (like his Nissan has), but not all. And it may work to get you out of trouble occasionally, but "the same as a locker"? No.

chikoroll_ wrote: get an LSD...acts the same as a locker...

No, it doesn't.

I agree with steve, a front locker will be used less than 10% of the time.

I suppose it depends what kind of driving. I know in victoria (for the most part) at least i'd never consider welding the front. But maybe more practical for 4x4 parks and areas with hard rocky obstacles with easy access.

-Stu

i welded mine had it for years never broke anything ever , it depends on your driving style etc and i went in 2nissan trials with it , but when i put in the lux diffs (this is in my zook ) i again welded front and rear , but had major issues with turning circle (due more to my steering setup) as i found out in willoglen so i went with an air locker and it made driving the nissan trials sooo much better. but if i had the choice of welded or open i'd be welded all the way , i dont do any long trips though and i prefer the harder stuff , and dont forget with a rear welded it will cause slight steering issues as well (understeer) on hard surfaces .

my patrol is air locked front and rear and id never weld it simply because its just a touring / shopping vehicle ,in saying that though i would think differently if i didn't have the $$$ at the time to do it ? but if its a play vehicle do it .

weld it if you dont like it just replace the centre with an open one from the wreckers later .

as for breakages a lot of people break cv's being open as well ,using excessive speed to get up steep climbs jumping around and lifting the front end and coming down "pop" were with welded diffs you get (generally) more traction aqllowing you to drive at a slower more controled pace . Up hills because the front is lighter there is no steering issues what so ever , but coming down is another story

My point was that the welded is a PITA the whole time you're off road, regardless of whether you need it or not.

I agree that for a trials type comp they might be viable. On a track driven car (i.e driving in state forests etc on "normal" tracks) they're not.

Steve.

chikoroll_ wrote: get an LSD and drive with the foot slightly on the brake

acts the same as a locker, but you control it 100%, and never have to press buttons, it increases road safety also

LSD is Nothing like a locker.

HotFourOk wrote:

chikoroll_ wrote: get an LSD and drive with the foot slightly on the brake

acts the same as a locker, but you control it 100%, and never have to press buttons, it increases road safety also

LSD is Nothing like a locker.

Just like a straight 6 is to a V6

Give him a break, its no this fault is internet educated

HotFourOk wrote: LSD is Nothing like a locker.

With enough LSD, you can convince yourself of anything.

KiwiBacon wrote:

HotFourOk wrote: LSD is Nothing like a locker.

With enough LSD, you can convince yourself of anything.

I am Jesus, right?

cloughy wrote:

KiwiBacon wrote:

HotFourOk wrote: LSD is Nothing like a locker.

With enough LSD, you can convince yourself of anything.

I am Jesus, right?

Pop quiz!

Who? wrote:Two men say they're Jesus.
One of them must be wrong.

id be locking the front before the rear

j-top paj wrote:id be locking the front before the rear

What the hell has that got to do with the question? That is an old debate.

j-top paj wrote:id be locking the front before the rear

That's because you drive vehicles with functioning LSDs in the rear. Not everybody has that luxury.

-Scott- wrote:

j-top paj wrote:id be locking the front before the rear

That's because you drive vehicles with functioning LSDs in the rear. Not everybody has that luxury.

but if i had a locked rear itd be open until its locked

midi73 wrote:

j-top paj wrote:id be locking the front before the rear

What the hell has that got to do with the question? That is an old debate.

the need for a front locker question

Gwagensteve wrote:sorry, I'm obviously not hardcore enough, but occaisionally, I drive on tracks that don't require a front locker. In terms of Km travelled per trip, 90% of the time, there's no need to have the front locker in.

Have a think about, on the average trip, how much of the time between leaving the bitumen to getting back on the tar you spend with the front locker in?

Even on the average hard track.... 90% of the time you might need low range but not the front locker.

I've been driving cars with front lockers for 15 years and wouldn't be without one, but for driving on actual tracks, they're not required most of the time.

Steve.

i go 4wding for that 10% of chalenging track. if the tracks dont require 4wd then ill go elsewere.

Diffn out has a patrol with a 6 inch lift and 38s. he has a pathy lsd in the front and usualy unlocks his hubs between hard sections because of this anyway. he wants to know if a welded front will be better.

it sounds like it will be beter in the hard sections but may cause more breakages.

i would think that wiff the welded front less right foot will be needed therfore not puting to much pressure on front cvs.

superzuki wrote:
i go 4wding for that 10% of chalenging track. if the tracks dont require 4wd then ill go elsewere.

Diffn out has a patrol with a 6 inch lift and 38s. he has a pathy lsd in the front and usualy unlocks his hubs between hard sections because of this anyway. he wants to know if a welded front will be better.

it sounds like it will be beter in the hard sections but may cause more breakages.

i would think that wiff the welded front less right foot will be needed therfore not puting to much pressure on front cvs.

So do I superzuki, but I won't put up with a bucket to drive on all the in between bits. On balance, I don't think a welded front would be an advantage over the pathy (ramp loading) LSD, and it will cause more breakage.

An arb though.... now you're talking...

Steve.

Gwagensteve wrote:
An arb though.... now you're talking...

or a auto locker for less than half the price

j-top paj wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote:
An arb though.... now you're talking...

or a auto locker for less than half the price

and around we go again
Peter.

i'm fellin a little dizzy too pete.....