Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hi Shane,
What size shocks would you be supplying for the 4-5" flexy coils in the rear of a gq?

EDIT: to

What rate are the heavy duty rear 3 inch coils?

EDIT: reason

4WD Stuff wrote:The coils that Dobinsons sold me which probably was your design is the 4-5" lift slinky coils that Dobinsons had stock piled when your overseas customer didn't like them.
Shane

Nope, they were a design for a European customer, not one we supply, that they have sold you, that werent successful, according to Dobinsons, hence no more were ordered, though we did try one set they hung onto, in green, at one point, and also found the design wasnt successful. Now, according to Dobinsons, and Euro mans were green, as you can see from the pics, ours were done different color to the green, for our overseas customers, and our market.

EDIT: with

RUFF wrote:

Darren what are you trying to prove with this pic? Could you find a more stupid pic to try and prove a point? You have the RF wheel running up the ramp. Show us a pic with the rear tyre in the exact same spot and the RF on the ground and it may make sence. But i imagine with the RF on the deck the LR would not be on the ground at this point right? Meaning you ran out of flex a long way down the ramp.

Maybe you should design an IFS rig. I hear Walker Evens runs one in Rock Crawling

Well, front wheel to a 25 deg ramp = 1000 rti, and not every bolt on kit goes 1000 rti, but obviously the rest of the patrols standard suspension components does

The wheel was on the ground further forward, surely someone of your experience would understand to get to where it is on the ramp, requires more travel, than when its further forward, because further forward means rhr closer to the ground , by at least the amount the front wheel goes forward, = less travel required, you cant remove height from the rear travel on a constant incline by any more than the front, but seems trig wasnt a strong point on your VCE scores

As for the "reverse in the bush" comment, wouldnt the vehicle be doing as per the pic, facing forward, rear high, if your driving down something, as well .....

Oh, and you mean this one



The real guys are running IFS offroad, [see below ] while flash in the pan rockcrawling dies a slow and painful death I notice, probably not a good time to get involved in rockcrawling due to the decline, Im over 30, and can afford a decent truck that doesnt require a trailer to get anwhere

EDIT: some

4WD Stuff wrote:Well this measures 4 metres on a 30 degree travel ramp.



At this point I think you should annoy some other thread.

4 m from where? and are you sure its 30 degrees?

only looks 25 deg in the pic.

Maybe if you stopped asking questions previously, you wouldnt need to be asking me to go to another thread, thats the joy of a public forum, when you post, you never know what responses will appear, and you cant just ask them to post elsewhere, if it isnt agreeing with the version of reality you were trying to create

4WD Stuff wrote: The green 4-5" lift ones which are soft, the ones that Oondi also has are very successful. Oondi put them back in his rig when he got back from his loaded trip. They are great for rock crawling and do hold a load ok. I want to make something clear to you which you don't seem to get and others may also get the wrong idea but I made heavier duty ones front and rear for those who have weight.
Thanks for clearing things up though and I hope you can put it to rest now.

Shane

define "successful" ?

Because Dobinson say the design wasnt successful, and your saying they are, with no substance, though Dobinsons have many many years experience in spring design, that your disputing, so perhaps you can put it all in context for us?

And the heavier ones you made must be the 340 lb ones you quoted, you hardly ever sell, because we tried and specced the rate you were supplied, dont forget, so I know what design, rate, spec coil you started with

I know this, Thanks to the guys who made them for you.....

EDIT: people.

EDIT: You

I "quoted" the above posts before 4WD stuff changed his post to EDIT:

4WD Stuff wrote: You are so far off track. The 340lb coils are not even the flexy ones, I was talking about the linear ones when I was quoting 340lbs. Now you have got Dobinsons to give you my specs so you can copy them.

I know the spec of the softer ones, hence asking what "successful" is in your version, if you claim this thread is about "reader education" then show us how they are successful, what you have done to prove them successful, how long you have tested them, wether its to ISO standards, or just a fang around the block etc.

We spoke with Dobinsons re rates of coils, but the design your using we found wasnt suitable, as I said, but if Dobinsons had it on the books, and a mandrel to suit, it sure helps keep the cost down when supplying coils.....

4WD Stuff wrote: You bagged ruff in the above post about his basic trig. Lets look at it.

Lets break down some figures from your pic. First lest calculate the vertical distance the Right rear tyre is from the top of the ramp which we know is 1350mm

Vertical Height of ramp = 1350mm
Width of tyre if it is a 35” tyre is 870mm
Distance down ramp is a tad over half the width of a tyre. Lets say it is 450mm. (Just over half the width of a tyre)


You were paying out on Ruff about his schooling. I would back Ruff’s common sense way before I would trust your trig.

Did that guess work cover tha fact it requires more travel where it is parked, than further forward?

Thats where common sense would come in, when you look at the pic......

4WD Stuff wrote: 3" CONCLUSION
Softer rear coils will make a difference when reversing up a ramp but when going forwards then as long as you run the same shocks you get full flex. We are both running the same size shocks on the rear. (735mm)

If there are any differences in flex then it is in the front. There are 2 factors determining front flex if you take shocks out of the equasion.
1. The softer the bushes the more it can flex. Stuffed bushes flex best.
2. The softer the coil the more it can flex.

Shane

Then if softer coils flex best why was my 290 lb rear coils and 280 lb fronts working so well on the ramp?

Did the bushes make the coils softer?

4WD Stuff wrote: Are you still trying to discredit my business or can we reach some kind of truce?

So far, i would say, given my last posts were answering your questions, you may need a mirror to work out who is discrediting who.

Just be wary, because none of the large suppliers are feeling to inclined to continue supporting internet businesses that errode retail margins, when much bigger customers in a combined effort, make it known its a "them, or us" situation.

Im more than happy to post "educational" tech information,as you have claimed this thread is about, but I also call a spade a spade, so, if you dont like the REPLIES you get, maybe look at how you post

EDIT: can't

EDIT: reason

I just got back from a bit of rock crawling so to speak.....and i wouldn't want any softer than the 305lb/inch front coils than I have in there already......even then I could feel them bind right up as they dropped off some of the ledges I was driving off.....and that was going real slow.

I still get good articulation in the front end with them too....



and thats with real soft bushes.....and even then the bushes were maxed right out.....i mean I got under there and could see that all bushes had the inner crush tube pushed all the way to the outer sleave of the bush......thats it for the std front 3 link setup i'm affraid.....and all with only 580mm front shocks.

cheers

OONDY

EDIT: with

Assassin_Offroad wrote:

4WD Stuff wrote: Are you still trying to discredit my business or can we reach some kind of truce?

So far, i would say, given my last posts were answering your questions, you may need a mirror to work out who is discrediting who.

Just be wary, because none of the large suppliers are feeling to inclined to continue supporting internet businesses that errode retail margins, when much bigger customers in a combined effort, make it known its a "them, or us" situation.

from a purely customer point of view. neither of you are doing your selves any favours.

if i were to walk into a store owned an run by either one of you, and walked into this kind conversation. I'D WALK OUT WITH OUT BUYING ANYTHING. as far as i'm concerned, doing it on here is no different to doing it in a shop front, packed with customers.

i'd rather go some where els and pay a higher price if a had too.





Assassin_Offroad
even a small amount of respect goes a hell of a long way. if you realy wanted to get a good point across about the difference between your product and these products. You have done a better job of it by starting a new thread and not mentioning any ones product but your own.
then let the customers deside whats best for them.

but hey, i'm just the guy who wants to buy the stuff. what does my opinion matter

I think this pissing contest is getting nowhere.

Before we resort to flopping wangs on tables, perhaps we could look at who's Dad is bigger?

brad-chevlux wrote: from a purely customer point of view. neither of you are doing your selves any favours.

if i were to walk into a store owned an run by either one of you, and walked into this kind conversation. I'D WALK OUT WITH OUT BUYING ANYTHING. as far as i'm concerned, doing it on here is no different to doing it in a shop front, packed with customers.

i'd rather go some where els and pay a higher price if a had too.

Assassin_Offroad
even a small amount of respect goes a hell of a long way. if you realy wanted to get a good point across about the difference between your product and these products. You have done a better job of it by starting a new thread and not mentioning any ones product but your own.
then let the customers deside whats best for them.

but hey, i'm just the guy who wants to buy the stuff. what does my opinion matter

You have made the assumption we would be interested in selling our product or service to you, when you entered.... if you responded in store, like your felt compelled to in your post, we may be to busy to help, and send you on the way anyway

This forum isnt exactly the place you post looking to make sales, maybe if you want 20 pm's on how people could make thier own cheaper, but not to pick up custom, you may get a couple of thousand dollars or similar over a year here, compared to 400k + from others last year, but it doesnt hurt to look around, see who may of done thier homework, or not.

-Scott- wrote:I think this pissing contest is getting nowhere.

Before we resort to flopping wangs on tables, perhaps we could look at who's Dad is bigger?

I think they should go and get a room and kiss and make up

EDIT: a

Assassin_Offroad wrote:

brad-chevlux wrote: from a purely customer point of view. neither of you are doing your selves any favours.

if i were to walk into a store owned an run by either one of you, and walked into this kind conversation. I'D WALK OUT WITH OUT BUYING ANYTHING. as far as i'm concerned, doing it on here is no different to doing it in a shop front, packed with customers.

i'd rather go some where els and pay a higher price if a had too.

Assassin_Offroad
even a small amount of respect goes a hell of a long way. if you realy wanted to get a good point across about the difference between your product and these products. You have done a better job of it by starting a new thread and not mentioning any ones product but your own.
then let the customers deside whats best for them.

but hey, i'm just the guy who wants to buy the stuff. what does my opinion matter

You have made the assumption we would be interested in selling our product or service to you, when you entered.... if you responded in store, like your felt compelled to in your post, we may be to busy to help, and send you on the way anyway

This forum isnt exactly the place you post looking to make sales, maybe if you want 20 pm's on how people could make thier own cheaper, but not to pick up custom, you may get a couple of thousand dollars or similar over a year here, compared to 400k + from others last year, but it doesnt hurt to look around, see who may of done thier homework, or not.

And yet I wonder if you were to display the same degree of arrogance on there that you have here if that would make a difference. Amazing that the same customers from here you just shunned may be in fact members of another where your attitude is completely different. I for one wouldnt be buying anything from you after the arrogance shown here especially to Chevlux.

-Scott- wrote:I think this pissing contest is getting nowhere.

Assassin_Offroad wrote:

brad-chevlux wrote: from a purely customer point of view. neither of you are doing your selves any favours.

if i were to walk into a store owned an run by either one of you, and walked into this kind conversation. I'D WALK OUT WITH OUT BUYING ANYTHING. as far as i'm concerned, doing it on here is no different to doing it in a shop front, packed with customers.

i'd rather go some where els and pay a higher price if a had too.

Assassin_Offroad
even a small amount of respect goes a hell of a long way. if you realy wanted to get a good point across about the difference between your product and these products. You have done a better job of it by starting a new thread and not mentioning any ones product but your own.
then let the customers deside whats best for them.

but hey, i'm just the guy who wants to buy the stuff. what does my opinion matter

You have made the assumption we would be interested in selling our product or service to you, when you entered.... if you responded in store, like your felt compelled to in your post, we may be to busy to help, and send you on the way anyway

This forum isnt exactly the place you post looking to make sales, maybe if you want 20 pm's on how people could make thier own cheaper, but not to pick up custom, you may get a couple of thousand dollars or similar over a year here, compared to 400k + from others last year, but it doesnt hurt to look around, see who may of done thier homework, or not.

trust me with attitude like that, you'd never get chance to send me on my way.

my responce, in your store, had i'd walked into that kind of conversion, would have been to walk out, with out giving you the chance to even find out if you wanted my money.

I could have $10 000 burning a hole in my back pocket, just itching to spend it on my GQ, guess you'll just never know.

You seem to think i don't konw how it works. I've been in the performence business for years, both the mechanical and retail side of it. the difference between you and me it seems, is that my head is not stuck 3 foot up my own arse.

you seem to think that by replying to me like you have, that you'd only ever loose me as potential customer. the truth be known you've probably lost 5 or 6 people. let just say they were only ever going to spend $5000 each. there is $30 000 you'll never see. and if you guys only pull in
$400 000 a year. 30k isn't a small amount

brad-chevlux wrote:

Assassin_Offroad wrote:

brad-chevlux wrote: from a purely customer point of view. neither of you are doing your selves any favours.

if i were to walk into a store owned an run by either one of you, and walked into this kind conversation. I'D WALK OUT WITH OUT BUYING ANYTHING. as far as i'm concerned, doing it on here is no different to doing it in a shop front, packed with customers.

i'd rather go some where els and pay a higher price if a had too.

Assassin_Offroad
even a small amount of respect goes a hell of a long way. if you realy wanted to get a good point across about the difference between your product and these products. You have done a better job of it by starting a new thread and not mentioning any ones product but your own.
then let the customers deside whats best for them.

but hey, i'm just the guy who wants to buy the stuff. what does my opinion matter

You have made the assumption we would be interested in selling our product or service to you, when you entered.... if you responded in store, like your felt compelled to in your post, we may be to busy to help, and send you on the way anyway

This forum isnt exactly the place you post looking to make sales, maybe if you want 20 pm's on how people could make thier own cheaper, but not to pick up custom, you may get a couple of thousand dollars or similar over a year here, compared to 400k + from others last year, but it doesnt hurt to look around, see who may of done thier homework, or not.

trust me with attitude like that, you'd never get chance to send me on my way.

my responce, in your store, had i'd walked into that kind of conversion, would have been to walk out, with out giving you the chance to even find out if you wanted my money.

I could have $10 000 burning a hole in my back pocket, just itching to spend it on my GQ, guess you'll just never know.

You seem to think i don't konw how it works. I've been in the performence business for years, both the mechanical and retail side of it. the difference between you and me it seems, is that my head is not stuck 3 foot up my own arse.

you seem to think that by replying to me like you have, that you'd only ever loose me as potential customer. the truth be known you've probably lost 5 or 6 people. let just say they were only ever going to spend $5000 each. there is $30 000 you'll never see. and if you guys only pull in
$400 000 a year. 30k isn't a small amount

my old retail boss said to me on more than one occasion, 1 annoyed customer is likely to stop 10 other people coming into your store. 1 happy customer will only bring 3 people at most back.

He runs a VERY successfull retail shop.

if your going to be talking TECH that is helpfull for all of us, do it. other wise keep it to pm's

shakes wrote:my old retail boss said to me on more than one occasion, 1 annoyed customer is likely to stop 10 other people coming into your store. 1 happy customer will only bring 3 people at most back.

most companies dont give a shit. one shitful place I dealt with in dande comes to mind.. good at taking your money and delivering very little.

booflux wrote: And yet I wonder if you were to display the same degree of arrogance on there that you have here if that would make a difference. Amazing that the same customers from here you just shunned may be in fact members of another where your attitude is completely different. I for one wouldnt be buying anything from you after the arrogance shown here especially to Chevlux.

brad-chevlux wrote: trust me with attitude like that, you'd never get chance to send me on my way.

my responce, in your store, had i'd walked into that kind of conversion, would have been to walk out, with out giving you the chance to even find out if you wanted my money.

I could have $10 000 burning a hole in my back pocket, just itching to spend it on my GQ, guess you'll just never know.

You seem to think i don't konw how it works. I've been in the performence business for years, both the mechanical and retail side of it. the difference between you and me it seems, is that my head is not stuck 3 foot up my own arse.

you seem to think that by replying to me like you have, that you'd only ever loose me as potential customer. the truth be known you've probably lost 5 or 6 people. let just say they were only ever going to spend $5000 each. there is $30 000 you'll never see. and if you guys only pull in
$400 000 a year. 30k isn't a small amount

If you had 10k lump sum to spend, you wouldnt be driving the GQ.......

400k is just web sales, out of around 2 mill over the year, 30k = beer money, and is less than half the 80k of the 4% rule, but then, when was the last time you spent 5k at a time on the 4wd?, vs our current customer base, and the last time they only spent 5k on the car .

It is very common business practice in this day and age for business with good customer service, whos biggest form of advertising is word of mouth, to concentrate on the 96% of customers who are happy, and let the other 4%, [proven stats btw] who are known, and labelled by thier attitude, to continue running around doing what they do, this free's up more time, to concentrate on the 96% as well. [BRW had an article on this subject recently also]

The 96% [$1,920,000 of 2 mil] will return more than the 4% [$80,000 of the 2 mil] will ever cost.

Thats the day you know you have made a business successful, when you can pick and choose your customers.

The defense rests, your honour........

The urinal is closed for cleaning