Outer Limits 4x4 Board

GQ Bear wrote:Still a way off, but not such a distant dream now

yell out if you need a hand!

Ever heard a TB42 with just a set of headers attached ? great sound very Loud

Ok well removed the old exhaust figured I would get the 3 inch in up to the firewall adapt the current header with a 2inch to 3 inch converter so its ready for next weekends dump pipe and turbo fitting.

While I am now thinking that 2.5 inch would probably be enough.

WOW .. just does not describe how great the engine sounds on a 3 inch, and I swear this engine now goes 100% better seriously doubled the power , I can believe how restrictive that old exhaust was I have the sneaky suspicion that the old muffler was blocked internally, it was very heavy, I thought about cutting it in half to have a look inside but then I thought hmm years of noxious chemicals inside could be a health hazard maybe asbestos in there who knows i know nothing of whats inside them

Exhaust Foot Notes :
To those who try to install their own exhaust , pay someone to fit it that has a hoist much easier! , using ramps it can be done but it was not at all fun and took me 10 hours, there was a bit of stuffing around with working out what bolted in where, a bit of put it in try it mark it , pull it out weld it put back in check it again so its a major pain best to have it up on a hoist I think.
I did it this time but never ever again , ok well maybe one more time I know how it goes in now

So if your TB42 drives like a corolla pulling a two ton trailer change the exhaust before starting to build a turbo, while im committed to turbo plans now I think that the improvement is that good that I would say that for daily driving this thing goes great.

Hmm is it illegal to put a spark plug in the exhaust for the after burner look ??

Cant wait to see what stupid things this truck will do with a monster Turbo lol

Think it may be time to post some youtube videos so you can get a feel for the sound this thing now makes

GQ Bear wrote:Can anyone else help out with real costings?

So far we've got $485 manifold, $300 3" exhaust, what's a T3 worth, front mount intercooler, BOV, plumbing, MSD (or similar), etc? What else have i forgotten?

How would TB42e with T3 run without MSD? Without intercooler?

I'm thinking i may be able to turn what's always been a dream into reality

I quick run down on costs, while some prices may be improved on this gives a bit of a run down on the costings while there could still be other extras such as turbo timer and Boost controller , Boost Gauges etc .

Manifold $485
Turbo $ 350.00
BOV $ 60.00
Oil Fittings $ 85.00
External Waste Gate $150
Turbo Dump Pipe $180
Vband flange clamp $45
3inch Mandrel Exhaust $300
Flange gaskets $100
Intercooler $200
Sillicon Intake Fittings $120
Stainless Hose Clamps $ 40.00
Intake stainless hook up pipes $100

Around about Total $ 2215.00

Just a quick post here with some pics of the 3 inch installed

Made a 3inch to 2inch reducer to connect up the original exhaust at the bottom of the firewall this will simply unbolt for installing the turbo dump pipe on turbo install day which is not that far off .

still have to weld up a couple more places but its in and secure while its still leaking a little bit as i have not installed the gaskets I have got the alignment right now , its a real head turner .

you can add a clutch to that list

uzdnabuzd wrote:you can add a clutch to that list

Actually he's right. And not a cheap arse one either. With the ponies this thing should be pumping out when you've finished you will need a heavy duty one particularly if you intend pumping up the boost. I'm running one of those brass button clutches and it seems to hang on okay.

naif wrote:im also doing this coversion soon to my 93 gq patrol have the turbo its a t3/t4 57 trim, i ported the wastegate out as it was about the size of a 5 cent piece.

according to online calculators it should be on full boost by 1500rpm and flow to redline.

what will be required to "beef up" the ignition system? mines the fuel inejcted model also running on lpg, things like coil?

Sounds a bit small to me, I think you will find this will choke way before redline what calculators are you using ?

High energy ignition consisting of a pertronix Igniter lobe sensing 1762LS version and a Accel super coil 50,000 Volt gives a nice pop.

GQ Bear wrote:Can anyone else help out with real costings?

So far we've got $485 manifold, $300 3" exhaust, what's a T3 worth, front mount intercooler, BOV, plumbing, MSD (or similar), etc? What else have i forgotten?

How would TB42e with T3 run without MSD? Without intercooler?

I'm thinking i may be able to turn what's always been a dream into reality

Mate i've done this and would not take short cuts ends up costing twice as much .
I would allow the following
Manifold $485 -1500
Turbo $ 350.00 -2000
BOV $ 60.00 -300
Oil Fittings $ 85.00 -350 with water +oil
External Waste Gate $150 -500
Turbo Dump Pipe $180
Vband flange clamp $45
3inch Mandrel Exhaust $300 -500
Flange gaskets $100
Intercooler $200 -1000
Sillicon Intake Fittings $120 -170
Stainless Hose Clamps $ 40.00 +
Intake stainless hook up pipes $100 -300
then ignition 500 -1000 +
air box 100-500
clutch
(if going petrol ecu injectors fuel pumps surge tanks)
dyno tune
and i've prob missed alot on top of that
then theres the chance of the motor letting go so you have to get a new one .
The list is endless , not trying to put you off but trying to let you no what your getting yourself in to in the end its all worth it
cheers bigears and best of luck to you all

Simo63 wrote: Those 12 mm header plates sound like a good idea as there is nothing worse than having a manifold that leaks all the damn time. Anyone looking to do such a build should latch onto the $80 ones being offered as that sounds very cheap to me.

The Stainless was four times the cutting and material cost, I am told that the laser uses Nitrogen while cutting and that cutting stainless is much slower then cutting mild steel, The material was twice as expensive but the cutting was the killer so a set of plates out of 304 stainless would be $190 if anyone is interested I may be getting a couple of sets cut anyway for a shiny manifold , any one else interested ?

Headder Plates 12mm for turbo manifold or extractors tb42 td42
Mild Steel $80
Stainless $190

Just completed this conversion aswell, the costing that bigears has detailed is pretty close to the mark. In this sort or application it is best to go with the good stuff, with the increased demand placed on the engine you want to build it tough.

My thoughts anyways.

All the best with the conversion, beleive me all the work is well worth it

bigears wrote:

GQ Bear wrote:Can anyone else help out with real costings?

So far we've got $485 manifold, $300 3" exhaust, what's a T3 worth, front mount intercooler, BOV, plumbing, MSD (or similar), etc? What else have i forgotten?

How would TB42e with T3 run without MSD? Without intercooler?

I'm thinking i may be able to turn what's always been a dream into reality

Mate i've done this and would not take short cuts ends up costing twice as much .
I would allow the following
Manifold $485 -1500
Turbo $ 350.00 -2000
BOV $ 60.00 -300
Oil Fittings $ 85.00 -350 with water +oil
External Waste Gate $150 -500
Turbo Dump Pipe $180
Vband flange clamp $45
3inch Mandrel Exhaust $300 -500
Flange gaskets $100
Intercooler $200 -1000
Sillicon Intake Fittings $120 -170
Stainless Hose Clamps $ 40.00 +
Intake stainless hook up pipes $100 -300
then ignition 500 -1000 +
air box 100-500
clutch
(if going petrol ecu injectors fuel pumps surge tanks)
dyno tune
and i've prob missed alot on top of that
then theres the chance of the motor letting go so you have to get a new one .
The list is endless , not trying to put you off but trying to let you no what your getting yourself in to in the end its all worth it
cheers bigears and best of luck to you all

Yeah mate agree with you. I have done it also. To do it properly (i like everything to be spot on) take your budget and douldle it. You get what you pay for. If you are not going to drive it much then maybe ok. If you want reliable power $$$$$$$

Simo63 wrote:

uzdnabuzd wrote:you can add a clutch to that list

Actually he's right. And not a cheap arse one either. With the ponies this thing should be pumping out when you've finished you will need a heavy duty one particularly if you intend pumping up the boost. I'm running one of those brass button clutches and it seems to hang on okay.

Im running an Auto so a needing clutch is not on the list , I did see once a listing for a modification for these auto's that had bigger valve bodies or something for better more positive band griping anyone else seen details on this mod or have installed one of these valve bodies ?

There are valve bodies available, you'll need a bigger auto cooler and if you make any power a full reco. Speak to Kewish in Dandenong they did Henry Lefever's many years ago afetr I turbo'ed it and have since done Kill Bills 6.0L L76 (Nissan Auto) Birdy, Andrew Cassar (On Track) and Krininal, that I know of. I'm betting $3k or so for a built auto. They may suggest a later EFI of GU box as they are a stronger starting point.

I'd say the standard box will last about 10 minutes on 160 rwkW!

Joel

Just for interest's sake I have some dyno graphs of a vehicle that came to us with a Pertronix igniter and one LPG converter running straight Gasresearch. The graphs show th lean mixtures using one converter and the increased power of the ICE ignition system, it is a stock 300+k klm TB42.

The first graph is with poor igniton and one converter as compared to with an ICE igniton. The second is with a second converter added.

The L line is lambda or Air/Fuel for those who prefer, I have intentionally hidden the exact mixture but you should get the idea. If left with one converter the engine would certainly fail even though it makes similar power. The increase in power down low is due to the corrected mixture throughout the range.



As you can see the increase in power when adding the second converter is minimal but the lean mixtures would soon destroy the engine.

Cheers Joel

Rather tricky to fit in any intercooler I have found , but with a bit of stuffing around and a plasma cutter .. I have managed to install this one.

I thought I would get it in place and look at sorting out the pluming so that come turbo installation day all the rest of the components are installed and hooked up.

heres a look .. at my Sunday efforts

I thought at the time well its another interesting turbo hookup and I want to be able to try some different hardware to compare performance.

TB42 low mount manifold uses a couple of piston ring seals between the two halves, the piston rings seals it up allowing for movement this stops cracking as with other cast manifolds, great idea.

Just a note for those quoting figures off of chapmans dyno. it is known across the "performance" circles to be one of the more generous dynos around

not that they are bad at tuning PETROL cars but there dyno likes to add a fair wack to the actual numbers

Been busy welding on the weekend , tig , mig and even the oxy for heating up pipes before bashing the crap out of them to get them into shape.

Hmm well only have a couple more welds to do and thats one down 4 more to go , a lot more work than i imagined but its all good fun.

Have not cleaned up the welds yet, will sand them down and make them flat but im not going to be anal and polish them as its going to be thermal wrapped anyways .

Im thinking it came together all very nice , I made a jig to mount a t3 plate in the position I wanted and bolted everything down to the head.

pictures below not quite finished so don't be too critical !

So now the top mount is getting very close to done, I can see that one could run an oil return to the top of the Head , is this the way to go or should i be adding a fitting to the side of the sump for oil return ?

I plan on getting the oil feed from a t piece on the oil pressure sensor , I wonder will this need some kind of regulator to restrict the oil flow or will the floating bearings be have enough restriction just to let past whats needed to keep them going with out pressure loss.

Is that going to effect the pressure that is read at the sensor ?

any other ways to hook up oil lines ?

Should I put in an oil cooler as well to reduce oil temp ?

oil return will need to go to the sump,

there is a block-off plug near the back of the block on the passenger side that is perfect for the oil feed line, saves t pieces and shortens the line,

no effect on pressure sensor, with either option,

oil coolers are a great idea, but not necessary,

the need for a restrictor will depend on the turbo you are using,


good luck.

I was hooking up a few things on the weekend built a carby hat adapter and changed the LPG mixer to a different type, few more pipes fitted to connect up the intercooler.

While I was in this process a thought occurred to me all these vacuum lines wont be under vacuum with respect to out side atmosphere any longer and may need to be blocked off while a new vacuum source will need to be tapped from somewhere else, maybe the intake of the turbo ?

where does one find vacuum after adding a turbo as the inlet manifold would be under pressure rather than vacuum yes ?

the following could need new place to be connected any experienced people out there offer me some suggestions ?

vacuum advance - wheres this going to connect maybe I need to replace the current one with one that has a two connections one to balance the atmosphere with that of the compress side of the turbo.

carbon charcoal canister
rocker cover - maybe this will still be ok under pressure ?
other vacuum connections.

I guess this is where going straight LPG makes it simpler than dual fuel turbo.

Will this tb42 carby still work in blow through ?

where does one find vacuum after adding a turbo as the inlet manifold would be under pressure rather than vacuum yes ?

the manifold will only be under boost when you have your foot down, it isnt constantly on boost, this is one of the biggest misconseptions people have about turbo charged cars.

vacuum advance - wheres this going to connect maybe I need to replace the current one with one that has a two connections one to balance the atmosphere with that of the compress side of the turbo.

unsure about this, as mines a fuel inejcted model the vacume advance(i think) is plumbed between the intake for the snorkel and the airbox, you may either need to not hookup the vacume advance or get a boost retarding dizzy.

carbon charcoal canister -

usually a one way valve is in place on turbo charched engines so the arrow faces towards the source of boost pressure(the manifold)

rocker cover - maybe this will still be ok under pressure ?

you definetly dont want boost pressure getting into your rockercover/crank case/sump, this either needs to be vented to atmo which is illegal, or you run it back into the airbox or anywhere pre turbo.

Will this tb42 carby still work in blow through ?

from what i have read(very little) the standard nissan carby on the TB42 is capable upto 8psi.

hi i dont think the carb will work that well pressurized as it works with the floats and bowl type stuff, just saying coz we experimented witha delorto carby and it started pissing out fuel from every seal.
might be able to build/modify carby to work pressurized.

havent done much on the build laterly sean?

Hey,

Looks like a fun project. Did you consider water to air for your intercooler, more efficient than A2A??? There's plenty of room in front of the rad' to fit exchanger. You would be surprised actually how good even the simplest set-up can be.

Is this going to be LPG only engine??? cause there was mention of carbies?? Sorry if i have missed something.

Keep up the good work

Daz

The Turbo its in ... 0-100 in 4.6 seconds

What a huge project this has been making the manifold my New Tig welder broke and had to wait a couple of weeks for a new one, but its all working again now .

I am making a couple more manifolds and its much easier now I have one installed I know exactly how they will fit, but its not a fast production.

It's absolutely amazing transformation running only 8-10 psi at the moment, still testing its been SO worth it !!

I have not done anything to the transmission and its holding up fine changes smoothly so far ( touch wood ) and the auto keeps the boost up between gear changes, I added a temp sensor to watch the temp but it seems very stable, I was a little concerned so I bought a spare transmission just in case we will see how it goes when i start going for more HP .

I will probably add an additional transmission cooler and oil cooler keep the temp down latter.

I have a 50mm external waste gate with a boost controller attached so i can give it a bit more boost once I get brave enough to dial it up, the wastegate is adjustable and is set to open at 8psi at the moment, no risk of boost run away with a 50mm wastegate thats for sure.

Would be good to add a sensor to this so i know that it has opened.

Its all working very well at the moment only had it in a few days, but it could work a bit better as it only produces boost under load, accelerating or going up a hill ( which is great ), I am not ruling out still having leaks, infact im betting there are still some small ones.

Finding Leaks
I hooked it up to a compressor with a regulator set at 20psi after blocking off the open intake of the turbo and found a couple of leaks by spraying soapy water about the place and looking for bubbles, once fixed made a noticeable improvement in response of boost building up.

LPG Ignition Timing :
Modified the Advance Weights in the distributor added a few grams for a faster advance, LPG has a faster advance then petrol but less overall advance should be limited to a max 30 degrees.
I have my initial timing at 12 degrees advanced.

Added the Pertronics Ignitor and built the high energy Altronics programmable ignition kit, allows you to program the advance curve and dwell, it also allows for you to run the Acell Supper Coil or CDI ( anything really, the transistor is rated upto 20 amps ) the 1.5ohm Supper coil pulls about 8-9 amps, the Pertronics Ignitor can only handle 3 Ohms or about 5 amps ( 14Volts / 3 Ohms = 4.6Amps ) while Acell Super Coil ( 14 / 1.5 Ohms = 9.3 Amps ) the Pertronics cant handle that so I just used it as a sensor ( much the same as a crank angle sensor ) and the transistor in the Altronics High energy programmable ignition kit does all the big current switching, and allows me to program adjustments into the advance curve very handy.
A few modifications were needed to the Programable Ignition kit so that the Pertronics Ignitor could trigger the Altronics High energy Programmable Ignition which was published in Electroinics Australia magazine back in the 1990's

But now that its all working its a great ignition system taking the advantages of both and merging them into one.

Need an Injected TB42 manifold .
The hope of running dual fuel with the Nissan carby is not going to happen it leaks all over the place, blew out the seal around the accelerator pump so no its not going to work with fuel in it, so I am now looking for the injected intake manifold, please if you have a spare one contact me as I would like to retain dual fuel functionality, while I realise this is going to be more messing around, I did put the programmable ignition in so i could change the advance for LPG or Petrol.

The Turbo
The T3 T70 A/R .70 it does seem a little big I will now try an A/R .60 smaller turbo with a .63 turbine as the .82 that i have at the moment takes a bit to spool up but when it does wow it hammers out to 6000rpm.

Poo Factor 8/10
Oh my Gawd .. the first time I drove it with the turbo I almost had a heart attack ! seriously talk about your poo moments when it kicks in, still its not anything like the one i saw on youtube racing the Lamborghini boasting 1000HP.
It reminded me of the movie MIB when Will Smith pressed the red button.


A run down of the parts used :

T3 T70 Turbo - The easy bit
Custom High mount T3 manifold - Made from Stainless steel 32mm Pipe
Custom Stainless steel 3 inch dump pipe with return for wastegate.
Neurometrics 50mm adjustable wastegate
Neurometrics SSQV III HKS Clone Sequential BOV ( the purple one )
Neurometrics Turbo Timmer
Neurometrics 4 inch POD Intake Filter
Oil line kit - custom with good stainless fittings
Oil Return to the Sump - just welded on a flange ( pictures )
3 inch mandrel exhaust system with muffler and resonator.
Altronics Programable ignition kit
Pertronics Ignitor ( direct from the US )
Acell Super Coil
Bosh 8mm helicoiled Ignition leads
Front mount Safari Intercooler with 2.5 inch fittings
Twin thermal Fans out of some old Ford
Honda Prelude Seats

Still to do :
Wrap the exhaust dump pipe and manifold in exhaust tape, wanted to make sure there were no leaks.

So I guess you want to see some videos now ? I have some I will upload to you tube ... enjoy !

Links coming soon.

I will still be making the manifolds for a little while and have a good deal on turbo parts so if there are interested people feel free to msg me.

Cheers

TR3LOS351 wrote:hi i dont think the carb will work that well pressurized as it works with the floats and bowl type stuff, just saying coz we experimented witha delorto carby and it started pissing out fuel from every seal.
might be able to build/modify carby to work pressurized.

Your absolutely correct the Nissan TB42 carby is not any good for a blow through , leaks all over the place .

Still you have to test these things to find out.

TR3LOS351 wrote:hi i dont think the carb will work that well pressurized as it works with the floats and bowl type stuff, just saying coz we experimented witha delorto carby and it started pissing out fuel from every seal.
might be able to build/modify carby to work pressurized.

I read of people building a sealed box around the Carby to pressure equalise so theres not the potential difference in inside the carby to outside, I can see how this would work but it is a heap of work to put it in a sealed box, more work then I want to do, so maybe easier to just put in an injected manifold or throttle body, and go with injectors they should not have this problem.

A custom intake manifold might be another project, when you know what you want and cant find it then making it yourself seems to be the only option.

Hey Baalsgate are you still selling those turbo manifolds?

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=_5e7eOVeyiA


I think something was lost in the translation to youtube like maybe the brightness and the bass note of the exhaust .

let me know what you think .

Cheers