Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Posted: **Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:09 am**

NutterGQ wrote:
turps wrote:
NutterGQ wrote:I keep hearing brass buttons are harsh.....yet another internet myth, cushioned brass button is easy to drive, and in low range you can't even tell, why do people tend to bag out what they don't have?
I have driven a turbo'd GQ TD42 that goes pretty well. only around the 150rwkw mark and it can be a pain to drive smothly around town. When your getting up it. You can be smoothish with it and know full well it will bite.
But wants you want to do some fine movement. Like trying to park the thing. Its a pain.
They are either on or off. They dont like to be ridden.
I think I could live it though, just to have a clutch that will not slip.

Simply not true anyone considering buying one your welcome to come ill take you for a drive to show you what its like, including parking. If you want or need one don't let the comments on the net put you off.

Well a normal clutch is much nicer to drive around town than what ever clutch is in the car I drove. I had it for a full day. Did a trip to melb in it. I also drove it at the OBC marshalling. And for doing fine movements that required a bit of clutch slip it didnt have any and was a pain. It was either grip or none. It is only an issue in first gear.
So it is true cos I drove the farken thing.

But yes if you want it to grip and be able to put it in 3rd give it some revs and instant wheel spin. Then a button clutch is what you need and you will have to put up with this low speed issue.

Posted: **Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:50 am**

Nelly, what is the most powerful car you have owned/ built ?

Posted: **Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:37 pm**

currentlyoffline wrote:Nelly, what is the most powerful car you have owned/ built ?

Never built one before. rebuilt a catamaram but this would be my first car. I know i'm young (30), inexperianced and all the rest. thats why i'm not rushing into it. i'm doing the research and finding out what and can be achieved

Most powerful car. yeh, I own a mazda 323. wow greased lighting

before that i've owned a CBR900RR.

If your going to tell me things like i'm going to kill myself, or i'm watsing my money, dont bother. I heard that when i turbo-ed the bike. I loved every minute of riding it and was worth every cent of money.

I'm not planning on doing all the engine mods straight away. I'm planning on putting this engine in first, then over time adding a bit here and there when needed. if i dont get to 500hp, then i dont get it.

I'm just after a few ideas, as too what can be achieved with this, things that i may have missed.

I'm interested in giving it a go. and having some fun in the process.

if it works great.

if not a have an expensive sled to help adorn my garden.

Posted: **Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:09 pm**

OK, then if you are serious about this I would read up all posts by 1madengineer, or give Joel at PGS4WD in Mornington, Victoria a call as they build, vehicles like this on a daily basis.

Do you want 500hp at the tyres ?
Maybe the RB family of motors is not the way to go......

I would personally look into a LS1/2/7 conversion though. Maybe even with a turbo or blower. Much better power down low, even when off boost.
This is a friends car who has done some fabrication for me.

Average 13.5 litres per hundred K's highway cruising
Approx 600hp at the tyres at the 11psi boost ( built to go to 20psi )
Drove it home from Summernats this year on Pump gas with an octane booster.
Drive 250 k's to Heathcote, then 10 second passes all day, then drive 250k's home.

http://www.aussiev8.com.au/conversions- ... post141421

Posted: **Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:59 am**

A TB48 out of a GU should be good for 400+hp once turbo'd. Rumour is Ontrack have atleast 3 cars with over 300rwkw's.

Posted: **Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:23 pm**

the latest little bit of info that i've been given so far is that the gearbox in the ZD30 is the same one as the the TD42 and TB42.

I spoke with a nissan mob here in newy and the mechanic said that the block in the ZD30 was the same as the RB30, they jsut reworked the components.

I am a little concerned however, coz he didnt sound overly confident.

So if we look it all together. The engine block in a RB25DET is the same as the RB30.

The RB30 block was then used in the ZD30 GU patrols with the same gearbox as the TB42's.

so the bits should be available to make them all mesh. (with the use of a large hammer of course).

The RB25DET motor i'm getting comes with the wiring loom, computer, turbo, intercooler and the like.

Does anybody know of a good engineer to get involved in this around teh Newcastle area. I wanna get them involved as soon as possible.

Thanks for the all the advice over the last few days and if anybody thinks of anything else that should be added. Please let me know.

Nelly

Posted: **Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:25 pm**

turps wrote:
NutterGQ wrote:
turps wrote:
NutterGQ wrote:I keep hearing brass buttons are harsh.....yet another internet myth, cushioned brass button is easy to drive, and in low range you can't even tell, why do people tend to bag out what they don't have?
I have driven a turbo'd GQ TD42 that goes pretty well. only around the 150rwkw mark and it can be a pain to drive smothly around town. When your getting up it. You can be smoothish with it and know full well it will bite.
But wants you want to do some fine movement. Like trying to park the thing. Its a pain.
They are either on or off. They dont like to be ridden.
I think I could live it though, just to have a clutch that will not slip.

Simply not true anyone considering buying one your welcome to come ill take you for a drive to show you what its like, including parking. If you want or need one don't let the comments on the net put you off.

Well a normal clutch is much nicer to drive around town than what ever clutch is in the car I drove. I had it for a full day. Did a trip to melb in it. I also drove it at the OBC marshalling. And for doing fine movements that required a bit of clutch slip it didnt have any and was a pain. It was either grip or none. It is only an issue in first gear.
So it is true cos I drove the farken thing.

But yes if you want it to grip and be able to put it in 3rd give it some revs and instant wheel spin. Then a button clutch is what you need and you will have to put up with this low speed issue.

Do you know that brass buttons come in cushioned and solid, 9 puck 5 puck 3 puck and so on....its bullshit to discourage people when you dont own the product your bagging.

Posted: **Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:45 pm**

nellyb1 wrote:I spoke with a nissan mob here in newy and the mechanic said that the block in the ZD30 was the same as the RB30, they jsut reworked the components.

I'd seek a different mechanic.
Ones a 6cyl, and ones a 4cyl..

Posted: **Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:56 pm**

bogged wrote:
nellyb1 wrote:I spoke with a nissan mob here in newy and the mechanic said that the block in the ZD30 was the same as the RB30, they jsut reworked the components.
I'd seek a different mechanic.
Ones a 6cyl, and ones a 4cyl..

Ones older than dirt and a 3.0 6cyl petrol and is petrol the other is a 3.0 diesal 4cyl

Posted: **Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:02 pm**

hahahaha good point.

I've been lost in the details of work today that i didnt even realise. Dam i think monday-ist has moved on to tuesdays as well. Thanks.

Posted: **Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:10 pm**

Sorry my bad.

Yeh it turns out the that RD28 in a GU patrol is pretty much the same block as the RB30. So teh gearbox jsut mounts in, with not too much effort.

I cant wait for today to end. My god this is painful.

Posted: **Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:59 pm**

NutterGQ wrote: Do you know that brass buttons come in cushioned and solid, 9 puck 5 puck 3 puck and so on....its bullshit to discourage people when you dont own the product your bagging.

True I will find out whats in it then come back to the discussion. And its not bullshit just misinformed on what the actually clutch is, other than it is some form of button.

Posted: **Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:33 pm**

find a written off rb30 out of a vl turbo or skyline that way you already have a worked motor with shitloads of balls

Posted: **Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:55 pm**

Not all button clutches are the same or can handle the same power, you can have sprung or unsprung centre and also with or without a cushion between the buttons, there are also different materials, metals, ceramics and organics.
I have fitted button clutches from $900 to $3000 in various vehicles. We have just fitted a twin plate sprung centre clutch to our 4.5 Turbo, currently 303 rwkW...more coming as the cushion button from 4 Terrain lasted to 13 psi and 240 rwkW.
A button has much shorter take up so requires more care on take off, in low range is likely to be less of a problem than high range especially with large tyres and tall gearing as they are not designed to be slipped and shouldn't be slipped. An experienced person can drive a button without hassle, put your missus in and watch her stall it 10 times. If you have a 4Terrain button with a sprung centre and cushion it will drive like a normal clutch, but it won't come close to holding 500 hp. In my books 500 hp is about 300 rwkW, we just did the math on the injector duty cycle fuel pressure and size on the 4.5 and it is between 510 and 540 engine HP.

I would be cautious of the little gearbox having seen then break behind the 2.8, I have one with no teeth on first gear, cheap to a good home. They don't break in cars as the vehicle mass is less. The heavy 4x4 means more traction, and greater torque generated in 1st and second as the vehicle accelerates slower higher boost levels are acheived.

Autos are faster in turbo cars as you don't have to get off the throttle for gear shifts, you loose a lot of boost on the shift.

Joel

Posted: **Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:48 am**

Thanks for the quick run down on clutchs Joel. I knew there is better and worse. Just didnt know they varied that much.

Posted: **Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:36 am**

Yeh thanks for that Joel.

I think i'm sold on the idea of the button clutch for sure, and hey if i'm not happy i can always go for the manual auto that was mentioned before.

The engine i'm getting is a slightly worked 25 out of a 94 skyline. Works great. All tested and runs great. I've heard a few rumours from some reliable sources about the place saying that they buy them from Japan only if they can drive the car.

What sort of things will the engineer be looking for you think. Like engine mounts, gearbox connnection and diffs, emission?

I'm guessing engine noise maybe????
Anything else?

Nelly

Posted: **Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:45 pm**

The emissions are what you need to prove, it's not so bad in an earlier vehicle but a post '02 vehicles is potentially quite difficult. You have to be able to demonstrate the vehicle meets emissions in a vehicle of that mass, even though the engine may come from a later vehicle. It gets all a bit techo, I'd consult an engineer to see what pleases him.

Joel

Posted: **Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:52 pm**

yeh thats teh idea.

I work with engineers all the time, and if you can get them to think that they have played a huge part (whether it is or not doesnt matter) then they seem happy to let most things go by with a tick.

I'll sit down with one in the next few days and have a chat with them about the project and see what they have to say. See which bits hes concerned about. should be very interesting. I'll let those that are interested know after.

Posted: **Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:34 am**

Hi guys been in contact with Marks adapters, there now is a kit to bolt holden 3 and 4 speed autos up to the RB30 using original transfer case RRP around 1k, havent got the trade list yet. Looks like either late this year or early next ill piss off the manual.

Posted: **Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:33 am**

Well I think the whole thing has been relatively worked out.

Relative would be to easy as football is to brain surgery.

I'll be needing to buy a FS5R30A gearbox out of a wreck and get it rebuilt.
RB25DET motor from a nissan skyline. Recon-ed
New Brass button clutch.
2" gearbox spacer.
use skyline flywheel.
Skyline loom
Water to air intercooler.
3"exhaust.
Larger turbo
Sports chip
vented disc brakes

I'm yet to confirm this but i believe this to be true. If anybody knows different please by all means let me know.

FS5R30A mounts to transfer case as the transfer case is the same from GU to GQ.

FS5R30A mounts to engine with little effort as the RD28 motor is the deisel version of the RB30 motor that was used. Same bolt pattern. may need a 2' spacer tho to reach engine mounts

Use the 4.2lt radiator.

Because the transfer case isnt coming out, there is no need to play around with the speedo.

wire up loom. (time consuming)

get intercooler and exhaust rigged up.

i know there will be a thousand little bits and peices that i've missed, didnt think of and didnt plan for. but what sort of project would it be if i knew it all.

Posted: **Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:00 pm**

nellyb1 wrote:I'm yet to confirm this but i believe this to be true..

http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20229

Outer Limits 4x4 Board

GQ SWB with 500hp