Outer Limits 4x4 Board

4WD Stuff
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:27 am

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My question is this. How many of you have stuffed their Tough Dogs and do run adjustable control arms?

My next question is. I know that they have an inner bump stop but how many of you have raised your bump stops enough so you don't use the shocks inner bump stop?

Shane

Good point.

So whats a better option in the same price bracket that can handle corrigations? Can you get pro comps that are adjustable? Would they go the disstance?

Aslo Ive heard that pro comps are made by MONROE?

Monroe is a brand of tenneco automotive who manufcture lots and lots of shocks, both aftermarket and OEM, including Rancho, and AFAIK, OME.

http://www.tenneco.com/brands/index.html

And that's the ones they have their brand on, not the stuff they make for others.

However, all I can find for pro-comp is that they manfacture their own shocks (I don't actually believe this though- very few companies make their own shocks.

Steve.

Adjustable Procomps can't put up with the abuse of the rear end of a Patrol. Just like Rancho's and as it looks, Tough Dogs also.

I hope these Boss adjustable shocks that are coming out will be good. They should be having a 22mm shaft and steel adjuster and audible click for easy adjustment. They will also be available with a heim joint ends for the bigger trucks so no side loading is put on the shocks.

Turbo GU, you said that you had the bump stops trimmed, but did you space out your bump stops so you are not relying on the Tough Dog internal bump stop?? I have a theory that even though they have an internal bump stop they can't cope with some of the shock loading forced upon them. I know you did it buy the book but maybe the internal bump stops are not as good as we think.

Shane

What sort of travel can we expect out of these boss shocks?

steve patrol wrote:What sort of travel can we expect out of these boss shocks?

I forgot to measure the sample that I looked at but they will have a little less travel then the Procomps, a lot more travel then the Tough Dogs and similar to Dobinsons, Ridepro and EFS Extremes. I will measure them all when I have them in stock.

By the way I have a big special on Landcruiser EFS Extreme shocks to make way for the Boss shocks so if anyone wants a bargain shoot me an email. I have 3 sets and will sell them at below cost.

Shane

4WD Stuff
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:28 pm

By the way I have a big special on Landcruiser EFS Extreme shocks to make way for the Boss shocks so if anyone wants a bargain shoot me an email. I have 3 sets and will sell them at below cost.

Shane

What about for a patrol? Do the EFS extreme come adjustable and large bore?

steve patrol wrote:

4WD Stuff
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:28 pm

By the way I have a big special on Landcruiser EFS Extreme shocks to make way for the Boss shocks so if anyone wants a bargain shoot me an email. I have 3 sets and will sell them at below cost.

Shane

What about for a patrol? Do the EFS extreme come adjustable and large bore?

The EFS Extremes are a re valved Tough truck shock so tough as nails. They have a 41mm bore and a body that is 65mm.

are big bore shocks more of a marketing gimmick than a useful application some of these shocks are as big as semi truck shocks ?

I've been running tough dog big bore shocks for 3 years on the 80 and never had a problem, I know a few people who run Ranchos and hate them on the heavier vehicles. I've ran Ranchos on a smaller 4wd and never had a problem with them except I think they sacrificed some ride comfort.

I think bigger the better for bore size if all things are equal if you have the room in the vehicle. Problem is there isn't enough room and often not all things are equal. There is nothing special about EFS Extremes but they are tough. The new Boss shocks have a slightly smaller body but a bigger shaft at 22mm compared to 20mm so she don't bend.

At the end of the day the Boss shocks have to be proven on the streets but I like the specs and the dude who has developed them seems to know what he is doing.

Shane

I agree with what you said about properly setup suspension systems 4WD stuff. I think alot of people are blaiming a dodgey shock for a dodgey application.

4wd stuff wrote:

The EFS Extremes are a re valved Tough truck shock so tough as nails. They have a 41mm bore and a body that is 65mm.

Are they adjustable?

steve patrol wrote:

4wd stuff wrote:

The EFS Extremes are a re valved Tough truck shock so tough as nails. They have a 41mm bore and a body that is 65mm.

Are they adjustable?

No EFS Extremes are not adjustable.

Shane

If memory serves the Boss shocks are an earlier (read less developed) version of the TD's with different external hardware. We were offered these about 18 months ago but I had no faith in the supplier. It seems that lack of faith may be well founded if they still are not released.

BBM Rick wrote:If memory serves the Boss shocks are an earlier (read less developed) version of the TD's with different external hardware. We were offered these about 18 months ago but I had no faith in the supplier. It seems that lack of faith may be well founded if they still are not released.

If that is the case the technology has been going backwards.

They have female threads so you can screw in any end you like to suit any vehicle including heim joints for the longer shocks.

I think the Tough Dog shocks use an 18mm shaft. I think the Ralph shocks use a 22mm shaft which is the same diameter as the new Boss shocks. Boss has had struts for quite a while with success and these shocks are based on these. I believe there is a strong guide for the shaft meaning that it would take a lot more side loads to upset the shock.

The Boss shocks have a steel adjuster that is audible.
The Boss shocks can be run upside down for less unsprung weight.

I believe you that you were offered shocks but because you are an honest person but I think everything new is an adaption of the old.

Time will tell if they turn out to be a winner.

The only reason why they haven't been released is because they are on a slow boat which should arrive mid August. They then have customs to deal with. They were working on improvements to the steel adjuster so they had to wait to manufacture these otherwise we would have had them months ago.

I have had some made 730mm long to suit my 3" lift flexy coils and 800mm long to suit my 5" lift flexy coils. If there is enough interest we will get some made longer in the future. (I will ask Boss to get some made anyway)

Shane

The shaft on the TD's is 22mm from memory, and the guide is 45mm of solid steel, so side loads should not really be an issue, even though plenty of folks seem to think they are. While Im not saying anyone here is full of it, I will say (as I have elsewhere) that whenever there is a failure, you only hear what the victim wants you to hear. You never hear the bits about them repeatedly dunking the shocks in silty muddy water, or jumping great heights with them or whatever. You only hear about how hard done by they are because their shock failed. The Boss shock (nor any other in that price range) will be a magic cure for mis-use.
Even though some folks think my opinion is in-valid, I reckon they are a bloody good thing. For the record, I reckon Bilstein are awesome as well. I try my best to be as objective as possible when discussing products. Dont beleive me? Go to the BBM website and check out some of my DVD reviews. A spade is a spade I reckon.
I hope the Boss's go well for you Shane, and i really look forward to seeing them perform.

Rick.

I just did a quick google search on the shaft size of the Tough Dogs when I said 18mm, I stand corrected that they probably are 22mm.

When I was checking out the sample shock with the Boss guy he made a point of telling me that they have a better guide setup then the Tough Dog shocks so it won't be so prone to leaking. He proceeded to explain it to me but I lost him and heard bla bla bla guide bla bla shock bla tech jargin.

I now supply bump stop spacers with my 3" lift flexy coil kit and I will be supplying them with the Boss shocks so at least it won't be over compressing that kills them.

I really hope they are the perfect solution because it can be sometimes hard to recommend a shock. There is only one length available at this stage for EFS Extremes for a Patrol and Tough Dogs limit flex , Procomps are a bit soft for some people on road.

Fingers crossed.
Shane.

Nelso wrote:

BBM Rick wrote: Of any manufacturer (of ANY product) we have had to deal with in regards to warranty, Tough Dog are by far the fairest, quickest and most customer focused mob we have had to deal with, often replacing well out-of-warranty items when they were under no obligation to do so.

I have to disagree with you Rick regarding their customer focus.

I bought a steering damper and the shaft rusted within a couple of months. I spoke to the rep at the stand at Tuff Truck and showed him the steering damper on my car and he told me to send it back and they would fix it, so I did. They repainted the damper a different colour and put a rubber boot over the spring to hide the rust on the shaft and sent it back to me like that! It was the most appalling, deceitful and arrogant act I have experienced by a vendor ever.

I know you (BBM) have a close affiliation with Tough Dog and Third's gear so I would expect that you get a great response dealing with them. Unfortunately, there are those of us customers who do not get treated with the same respect and for that reason I will never buy another product from them and have no problems advising others to do the same.

Nelso and Tough dogs
As soon as Iseen the title i thought Nelso will have an opinion on this

BBM Rick wrote: Even though some folks think my opinion is in-valid, I reckon they are a bloody good thing. For the record,
Rick.

I agree with you Rick, but I still as a rule don't take much of what sellers say about their own or competitors products, this counts for 4wd stuff.

I will say again that I think that alot of these shock faults are "missuse" as you put it Rick and really for the needs some people have they should be using competition shocks like fox, or racerunner perhaps. and also looking after their expensive parts by giving their rigs a good clean after dunking them in mud etc.

GRPABT1 wrote:

BBM Rick wrote: Even though some folks think my opinion is in-valid, I reckon they are a bloody good thing. For the record,
Rick.

I agree with you Rick, but I still as a rule don't take much of what sellers say about their own or competitors products, this counts for 4wd stuff.

I will say again that I think that alot of these shock faults are "missuse" as you put it Rick and really for the needs some people have they should be using competition shocks like fox, or racerunner perhaps. and also looking after their expensive parts by giving their rigs a good clean after dunking them in mud etc.

Thats spot on mate.

macca81 wrote:

segan1 wrote:

Nelso wrote:

BBM Rick wrote: Of any manufacturer (of ANY product) we have had to deal with in regards to warranty, Tough Dog are by far the fairest, quickest and most customer focused mob we have had to deal with, often replacing well out-of-warranty items when they were under no obligation to do so.

I have to disagree with you Rick regarding their customer focus.

I bought a steering damper and the shaft rusted within a couple of months. I spoke to the rep at the stand at Tuff Truck and showed him the steering damper on my car and he told me to send it back and they would fix it, so I did. They repainted the damper a different colour and put a rubber boot over the spring to hide the rust on the shaft and sent it back to me like that! It was the most appalling, deceitful and arrogant act I have experienced by a vendor ever.

I know you (BBM) have a close affiliation with Tough Dog and Third's gear so I would expect that you get a great response dealing with them. Unfortunately, there are those of us customers who do not get treated with the same respect and for that reason I will never buy another product from them and have no problems advising others to do the same.

After hearing that story I will never be owning anything Tough Dog.


Cheers

one story does alot to change ppls thoughts it seems...

Um.........more than one hard luck story.

And how much are we paying to try these boss shocks?

steve patrol wrote:And how much are we paying to try these boss shocks?

Full retail will be $840 as of a few months ago but I have never sold anything for full retail yet.
You would get a special price Steve.

Shane

i think the tough dogs that came in my patrol are stuffed, the rears are also dented, my patrol is only lifted something like 1 or 2" max suspension lift.

what sort of shocks should i be looking at getting? im planning to put a 4 inch lift under it.

naif wrote:i think the tough dogs that came in my patrol are stuffed, the rears are also dented, my patrol is only lifted something like 1 or 2" max suspension lift.

what sort of shocks should i be looking at getting? im planning to put a 4 inch lift under it.

Do you like a comfort ride and don't mind a bit more body roll then Procomps would be good.

If you had 5" lift coils then EFS Extremes (750mm rear extended)would suit otherwise they are a tad too long. They are just ok with my 3" lift flexy coils which are 10mm longer then Dobinsons 4-5" lift coils so you would have a bit of passenger side loose if you jumped it.

For 730mm extended you have Dobinsons and Ridepro which give a similar ride to each other which is on the firmer side.

I think the Kings and EFS 4" lift coils use 700mm extended shocks (happy to stand corrected, I don't sell these coils) If so, my recommendation would be for Lovells shocks, EFS, Dobinsons with the Dobinsons being a bit firmer if you like more control then the average person. Ridepro don't have shocks this long.

There is the Boss shocks but they are coming soon.
Rancho, well I think you are better off with Tough Dogs.

Hopefully others will give their spin on it but there are not too many worthwhile choices.

Prices for most of the above are on my web site. I don't have EFS Elite prices on there so I don't offend my competitors.

Also what sort of warranty will the boss have ?

Ie on a properly set up patrol truck with long arm lowers and adjustable uppers, lowered bump stops etc... and checked on a flex ramp to make sure nothing is hitting at full flex, including mounts and pinion angles, etc...

steve patrol wrote:Also what sort of warranty will the boss have ?

Ie on a properly set up patrol truck with long arm lowers and adjustable uppers, lowered bump stops etc... and checked on a flex ramp to make sure nothing is hitting at full flex, including mounts and pinion angles, etc...

Boss will have a warranty but I don't know how long it will be. (The Boss of Boss is out of the country at the moment)
I will put a Suspension Stuff warranty on them for 2 years covering everything. I will be selling bump stop spacers with them for the Patrol.
I will give a money back satisfaction guarantee on the first 10 sets that I sell.

Shane

Nice! And would you know if the rancho incab kit (in cab adjustment) will work on them?

steve patrol wrote:Nice! And would you know if the rancho incab kit (in cab adjustment) will work on them?

I don't think so.

4WD Stuff wrote:

steve patrol wrote:Also what sort of warranty will the boss have ?

Ie on a properly set up patrol truck with long arm lowers and adjustable uppers, lowered bump stops etc... and checked on a flex ramp to make sure nothing is hitting at full flex, including mounts and pinion angles, etc...

Boss will have a warranty but I don't know how long it will be. (The Boss of Boss is out of the country at the moment)
I will put a Suspension Stuff warranty on them for 2 years covering everything. I will be selling bump stop spacers with them for the Patrol.
I will give a money back satisfaction guarantee on the first 10 sets that I sell.
Shane

Id give them a run with these conditions, I think it would be worth the trial...