Outer Limits 4x4 Board

tweak'e wrote:especially so as we don't often wear seat belts when driving off road.

Well that's even dumber than wanting to turn the airbags off. Why the hell wouldn't you wear seatbelts?

matto wrote:well its good to know that they shouldnt accidently go off the bad thing is if your stationary at a set of lights and some one crashes into you they wont deploy according to this thread

If you're stationary and get hit in the front they should go off (if you're hit hard enough).
If you're not hit in the front, you won't want them to fire.

Ben wrote:

tweak'e wrote:especially so as we don't often wear seat belts when driving off road.

Well that's even dumber than wanting to turn the airbags off. Why the hell wouldn't you wear seatbelts?

River crossings would be one.

Kev80 wrote:

Ben wrote:

tweak'e wrote:especially so as we don't often wear seat belts when driving off road.

Well that's even dumber than wanting to turn the airbags off. Why the hell wouldn't you wear seatbelts?

River crossings would be one.

So that takes up what ... .00002 percent of all your time offroad .. and how often do you take on water thats deep enough to totally fill the car. I wear mine during most crossings.

Ben wrote:

tweak'e wrote:especially so as we don't often wear seat belts when driving off road.

Well that's even dumber than wanting to turn the airbags off. Why the hell wouldn't you wear seatbelts?

Because sometimes it's better to be thrown out of the vehicle than staying trapped in it.
If you've never driven offroad in NZ then you probably wouldn't understand.

In the river example, rivers don't need to be deep enough to fill the vehicle, just swift enough to carry it away downstream.

KiwiBacon wrote:

Ben wrote:

tweak'e wrote:especially so as we don't often wear seat belts when driving off road.

Well that's even dumber than wanting to turn the airbags off. Why the hell wouldn't you wear seatbelts?

Because sometimes it's better to be thrown out of the vehicle than staying trapped in it.
If you've never driven offroad in NZ then you probably wouldn't understand.

In the river example, rivers don't need to be deep enough to fill the vehicle, just swift enough to carry it away downstream.

and there is just as many occasions when it would be better to be strapped into the vehicle rather than thrown from. If you haven't driven offroad in Aus you wouldn't understand it (whatever that means). We have rivers with fast moving waters so does NZ, we have steep hills so does NZ, we have snow driving so does NZ we have desert crossing so does UAE

grimbo wrote: and there is just as many occasions when it would be better to be strapped into the vehicle rather than thrown from. If you haven't driven offroad in Aus you wouldn't understand it (whatever that means). We have rivers with fast moving waters so does NZ, we have steep hills so does NZ, we have snow driving so does NZ we have desert crossing so does UAE

Noone has said they never wear seatbelts offroad. I've pointed out some situations where you're better not to.

You don't have the same terrain we have. Because of that you've got a completely different set of risks and a different set of methods for dealing with those.

Other than rocks, mud, snow and sand, what else is there to wheel on? And what possibly hurts less to land on than remaining strapped in your seat (and that's assuming you get thrown out vs. make it halfway out through the windscreen before you get rolled on).

About the only thing I'd imaging wheeling without a seatbelt is my old '44 GPW as it has no roll bars, and the windscreen wouldn't support a feather in a roll over, so I am probably better of out than in. And even then I'm thinking about wearing a belt so I don't get bounced out of my seat on tame terrain.

Ever been driving in places where your vehicle could roll downhill for several hundred metres?
Ever been in a place where you can be trapped underwater?

Like I said, if you haven't been there, you won't understand.

How's your vertigo?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNQ4iPh1e7E

KiwiBacon wrote:Ever been driving in places where your vehicle could roll downhill for several hundred metres?
Ever been in a place where you can be trapped underwater?

Like I said, if you haven't been there, you won't understand.

How's your vertigo?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNQ4iPh1e7E

yes, right here in Australia and skippers canyon is a very cool drive as well

KiwiBacon wrote:You don't have the same terrain we have. Because of that you've got a completely different set of risks and a different set of methods for dealing with those.

What have you got that you think we don't have? What have you got that we don't have more of?

KiwiBacon wrote:Ever been driving in places where your vehicle could roll downhill for several hundred metres?
Ever been in a place where you can be trapped underwater?

Yep. Incredibly we have hills and cliffs and rivers here too. Indeed I reckon most of the 4x4ing I do is going up and down steep slopes, or across ridges with massive drop-offs.

So I'm still wondering what makes getting maybe thrown out of your car safer?

One place we do have in Victoria is known as the Widow maker. It's blocked off now, but it made it's name because several people have attempted to drive up it, without success. From what I was told the last person that died tried to leap out as it rolled. Guess what, they died, their passenger in the car survived.

KiwiBacon wrote:Ever been driving in places where your vehicle could roll downhill for several hundred metres?
Ever been in a place where you can be trapped underwater?

Like I said, if you haven't been there, you won't understand.

How's your vertigo?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNQ4iPh1e7E

I nearly rolled down a steep hill for about 100m this past winter, she slid backwards and at 90 degrees to a steep track, sliding backwards on 33" muddies in the first place tells you how steep it was.

I remember thinking how cool a racing harness would be at that point in time. Not wishing my seatbelt was off.

I agree that somehwere, sometime a seatbelt wll be a bad idea when it's snapped too tight to undo. But 99.99% of other times it will be a good idea.

Cheers

personaly, where the risk of a rollover is small, i prefer to not wear a seatbelt. i have come away from a day of driving with some pretty decent bruising across my shoulder and a sore neck that was later diagnosed by my chiropractor as mild whip-lash, and this was because i wore a seatbelt for the full day and spent most of it bouncing around at low speed.

if your doing more than a few kph, or your on a decent hill or even a mild sideslope, then yes, definatly put your seatbelt on. but when you going slow on fairly flat but uneven ground, then i personaly would take mine off.


bear in mind iv done most of my offroading in a leaf sprung MQ that just likes to bouce over everything...

love_mud wrote:

Kev80 wrote:

Ben wrote:

tweak'e wrote:especially so as we don't often wear seat belts when driving off road.

Well that's even dumber than wanting to turn the airbags off. Why the hell wouldn't you wear seatbelts?

River crossings would be one.

So that takes up what ... .00002 percent of all your time offroad .. and how often do you take on water thats deep enough to totally fill the car. I wear mine during most crossings.

Who cares if its only .00002%, i answered a simple question with a simple answer.
Don't read too much into it.

macca81 wrote:personaly, where the risk of a rollover is small, i prefer to not wear a seatbelt. i have come away from a day of driving with some pretty decent bruising across my shoulder and a sore neck that was later diagnosed by my chiropractor as mild whip-lash, and this was because i wore a seatbelt for the full day and spent most of it bouncing around at low speed.

if your doing more than a few kph, or your on a decent hill or even a mild sideslope, then yes, definatly put your seatbelt on. but when you going slow on fairly flat but uneven ground, then i personaly would take mine off.


bear in mind iv done most of my offroading in a leaf sprung MQ that just likes to bouce over everything...

I cracked my forhead open on the roof console in my MK on flat ground at approximately than 5km/h. I was not wearing my seatbelt & thought I would be ok until I hit a stump & the truck stopped dead. If I had been wearing my belt I would have been ok.

This may not be fast enough to deploy an airbag but if it did & stopped me cracking my head at a certian G force turning my brain into mush then I would rather have it go off.

I am not sure some of you people realise how little force it takes to damage your head to the point of killing you.

What is it with people & safety

mkpatrol wrote: What is it with people & safety

What is it with people taking a simple comment, blowing it out of proportion and bleating on for ever?

KiwiBacon wrote:

mkpatrol wrote: What is it with people & safety

What is it with people taking a simple comment, blowing it out of proportion and bleating on for ever?

yeh, I say let the intelligence challenged kill themselves, its natural selection at work.

Smoke, Take drugs, Dont wear seatbelts, jump of bridges, Its all good.

you couldn't do this with a belt on
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSD2_tPX278

Shadow wrote:yeh, I say let the intelligence challenged kill themselves, its natural selection at work.

Smoke, Take drugs, Dont wear seatbelts, jump of bridges, Its all good.

Darwin Awards
Good books

KiwiBacon wrote:

mkpatrol wrote: What is it with people & safety

What is it with people taking a simple comment, blowing it out of proportion and bleating on for ever?

I actually wasnt going to post again until I saw Maccas post but it stirred me up.

+ this is Outers.

defmec wrote:you couldn't do this with a belt on
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSD2_tPX278

hmmm
I wonder if he wears a belt now what a tool
and as mr bacon might notice even though the cruiser went over several times the car is still intact,and probably still would be ok if it went over another 10 times but id wager it would have sucked arse if he had been thown out on the other side.

belts like helmets made for a reason

matto wrote:well its good to know that they shouldnt accidently go off the bad thing is if your stationary at a set of lights and some one crashes into you they wont deploy according to this thread

Off-course they will go off thats what the sensors are for...

just because you wear a seat belt , doesn't stop an air bag from injuring you if you are short and sit very close to the steering wheel , but most people would generaly be seated back far enough not to have this issue .

there have been a lot of deaths in the states due to airbags with and without seat belts , so we were taught at tech , but no doubt technology has changed .

ive hit the front of my gu patrol pretty hard with no dramas.

as for wearing seat belts whilst wheeling , personaly i believe it depends on your own circumstances , i rather have my belt of and get a clearer veiw of the terrain when going slow on technical stuff than wear a belt , but if it is up or down a hill i wear a belt , one day people are gunna look back and say " you go 4x4ing without a cam spec cage ? your a darwin candidit .

you kiwi's should know by now the victorians that drive suzuki's know everything about 4wdriving

eryone has said that to deploy there are a few sensors that need to be met the crush cans(impact) and speed sensors. If they work when your stationary then there is surely a chance they could be set off hard wheeling. The original reason why i wanted to know if you could turn them off would be if you dinged the front up you wouldnt have to spend the 5k to fix an airbag in a non life threatening event of course

matto wrote:eryone has said that to deploy there are a few sensors that need to be met the crush cans(impact) and speed sensors. If they work when your stationary then there is surely a chance they could be set off hard wheeling. The original reason why i wanted to know if you could turn them off would be if you dinged the front up you wouldnt have to spend the 5k to fix an airbag in a non life threatening event of course

OK, the occupant safety mechanisms built into modern vehicles are designed to pass a test. This test is usually destructive (crash) & involve reducing damage to the occupant (dummy). These parameters are set scientifically based on what the maximum forces a human body (medically)can handle, the dummy is built to replicate this. So when the manufacturers test they are testing for frontal, offset & side impacts. They then set the vehicles up to withstand these impacts at 48km/h.
This speed is determined to be the average impact speed for the majority of accidents and the human body has issues with the forces involved above these speeds.

Now a vehicle does not actually have to have airbags fitted to pass these tests, in fact I think Subaru (5 star rated vehicles mind you) had an early Liberty that passed ADR69 without them. The fact is that Airbags are the easiest way to protect occupants and pass the test. Manufacturers use a multitude of sensors to perform this task from motion sensors, crush cans ect.

How any vehicle will perform in an accident situation is really only known by the manufacturer. So from the cosumers end, if the vehicle is put into a situation that all the parameters are right then the airbags will deploy. This will happen if the vehicle is moving or not.

This brings us to the individual vehicles, the manufacturer may set the vehicle to not deploy when the vehicle is travelling at certain speeds or in certain gear ratios or anything. Now manufacturers are known for turning things like ABS/traction/stability control off when low range is selected. They may even electronically turn the other safety restraints off as well.

So you need to consult the original manufacturer to see if your vehicle does this if it doesn't then you should leave well enough alone.

OK the reason why you should leave well enough alone: most of these sensors operate on 1-2 volts, some less than that & their return signal to the body control module can be measured in millivolts, splicing a wire and a switch add resistance which can interrupt this signal & cause the airbag to not deploy.

Would you like to take the risk?

I wouldn't & if I hit something in the bush hard enough to set them off then I would imagine that the vehicle would be tow away anyway.

I must be getting soft in my old age, I just don't drive fast enough on fire trails to cause damage to my 4WD. Obviously accidents happen & if i found myself in the situation that I was sliding at a great rate of knots towards a tree on a muddy slope I would be quite happy to have all the protection I can get.

OK, ramble over, I hope this helps the thread.

my god what did i start

KiwiBacon wrote:

tweak'e wrote:people have been killed before due to airbags going off and blowing them back into the seat.

Are these american stories?
AFAIK because in the US seatbelts are optional (might be a state by state law), their airbags have to have a lot more force behind them.
Hence the stories of broken arms etc.

In NZ because seatbelts are mandatory, the airbags are a supplementary restraint (SRS) and aren't as violent.
I've never had one go off, hope I never need to.

blade 929 wrote: there have been a lot of deaths in the states due to airbags with and without seat belts , so we were taught at tech , but no doubt technology has changed .

most of the ones i've heard of was US. without seatbelt people either sit very close to the wheel or get throw against it under braking. on impact the airbag goes off throwing them back into the seat and (i assume) whiplash snapping the neck.
with seatbelt on the bag deploys in front of driver softing the landing when the driver gets thrown into it.

i don't think its anything to do with type of system, just the rapid speed the bags deploy at.
there was a doco on firefighters having airbags go off when they cut a vechile open. i think a firefighter is US died from the blast.

Ben wrote:

tweak'e wrote:especially so as we don't often wear seat belts when driving off road.

Well that's even dumber than wanting to turn the airbags off. Why the hell wouldn't you wear seatbelts?

as for no seatbelts, as mentioned before we don't do hard offroad. we don't bouce around a whole lot. i'm usually carting stock which don't particuly like getting bounced around.
we stop often, we can be in/out of the vechile every 20m, so seatbelts are a pain to put on/off.

my main concern is that speed sensor gets fooled due to slipping/spinning tires and that a chassi impact might set off the airbags.
however if it requires an accelerometer reading its proberly ok.
las time we hit a stump i was standing on the back of the trailer. speed was only 5kmh or so and didn't get thrown off.

so why not explain the scenario in your intial post. The more info supplied would make the answers more relevant. Your situation of low speed farm work is very different to KiwiBacon and his type of 4wding

grimbo wrote:so why not explain the scenario in your intial post. The more info supplied would make the answers more relevant. Your situation of low speed farm work is very different to KiwiBacon and his type of 4wding

Nope, you just assumed wrong.

KiwiBacon wrote:

grimbo wrote:so why not explain the scenario in your intial post. The more info supplied would make the answers more relevant. Your situation of low speed farm work is very different to KiwiBacon and his type of 4wding

Nope, you just assumed wrong.

Go back through my posts I asked why would you 4wd without seatbelts and then you offered some situations that you seemed to think were only applicable in NZ and I countered with those situations are also applicable her in Aus. I never said all situations rerquired seatbelts, only asked where they would