Outer Limits 4x4 Board

the old boy has a 2000 model prado and me a 1990 patrol.

went for a mild wheel with him out glasshouse and was suprised at how it went, is quite a capable car for the mild stuff (still got nuthin on the old patrol ).

have driven dads prado both on and off road and must say i prefer the patrol for both, offroad his prado seemed gutless and had no low down torque and in low range ya still had to give it a bit to get it goin and that whole all wheel drive thing on road i personally think was a sad drive. I also found it quite uncomfortable for me (probably coz the patrol has my big fat ar** imprinted in the seat ).

also he has had to replace quite a few things and considering it has never gone offroad besides this once, and the prices they charge, thought thats a bit low.

in my honest opinion i would be getting a 4.2d patrol, DO NOT let that info about the 3.0l put you off, completely different vehicle. the 4.2s are a very solid,strong and reliable car and are still a very comfortable car for touring and driving around town and will out perform a prado offroad anyday.

but thats just my opinion, mum still prefers the prado (think coz they look a bit more girly )

THICKNICK wrote:the old boy has a 2000 model prado and me a 1990 patrol.

went for a mild wheel with him out glasshouse and was suprised at how it went, is quite a capable car for the mild stuff (still got nuthin on the old patrol ).

have driven dads prado both on and off road and must say i prefer the patrol for both, offroad his prado seemed gutless and had no low down torque and in low range ya still had to give it a bit to get it goin and that whole all wheel drive thing on road i personally think was a sad drive. I also found it quite uncomfortable for me (probably coz the patrol has my big fat ar** imprinted in the seat ).

also he has had to replace quite a few things and considering it has never gone offroad besides this once, and the prices they charge, thought thats a bit low.

in my honest opinion i would be getting a 4.2d patrol, DO NOT let that info about the 3.0l put you off, completely different vehicle. the 4.2s are a very solid,strong and reliable car and are still a very comfortable car for touring and driving around town and will out perform a prado offroad anyday.

but thats just my opinion, mum still prefers the prado (think coz they look a bit more girly )

Compare apples to apples.

A GQ datsun is compareable to a 80 series.
A 4.2 solid axle coil all round to 3.0lt (I am assuming diesel) or 4cyclinder petrol IFS just isn't the same.
However compare a GQ datsun to the and the 80 will come out front in all areas except front diff and LSD. Throw Front and rear lockers in both and they are pretty much equal.
compare on and off road in 99% that most people will do and the cruiser is in front.

However compare the new d4d Prado against the new diesel Patrol and the patrol is a distant 2nd.
And spend the difference in price on aftermarket parts for the Prado and the datsun is left way behind.

Chucky wrote:
However compare the new d4d Prado against the new diesel Patrol and the patrol is a distant 2nd.
And spend the difference in price on aftermarket parts for the Prado and the datsun is left way behind.

thats not comparing apples to apples though?

ps: patrol ST is usually cheaper than a prado GXL D4D after you begin the standard negotiations

Was trying to point out that comparing a 4.2 GQ to a 2000 prado, the prado wont compare as an off road car.

I recently went shopping for a new car and looked at both.
GXL TD Prado was a fair bit cheaper than the ST patrol. On road the prado is $55,490 with full tanks of diesel (180l) and towbar. The best price the nissan dealer would give was $60,790 without any extras.
Then add the spec's

Prado - 127Kw @ 3400 410Nm @ 1600
Patrol - 118Kw @ 360 354Nm @ 2000
Prado - weight 1980Kg Towing cap - 2500kg
Patrol - Weight 2355Kg Towing cap - 2500kg
Prado fuel - 180l
Patrol - 125l

The only thing the patrol has going for it solid front end and good lsd. Use the money saved on diff locks and suspension lift and the prado is leaps and bounds in front of the patrol.

And prado's look better too

If you would do a count on blown Prado Diffs I am sure they would out number the blown Patrol engines x 10 .
I have seen 2 blow and one went while idling around a tight turn on a dirt road all wheels on the ground and no loud pedal!
Ihave also heard of lots of other problems from them as well such as tow bars breaking of and gearbox issues as well .The prado I was in was a lot bumpier to drive around in than an old gq Patrol but I will give it this it did get up and go.

TOY ETA wrote:If you would do a count on blown Prado Diffs I am sure they would out number the blown Patrol engines x 10 .
I have seen 2 blow and one went while idling around a tight turn on a dirt road all wheels on the ground and no loud pedal!
Ihave also heard of lots of other problems from them as well such as tow bars breaking of and gearbox issues as well .The prado I was in was a lot bumpier to drive around in than an old gq Patrol but I will give it this it did get up and go.

dunno bout you, but id much rather replace a dif than an engine. for that matter, you could carry a spare diff with you, but be buggered if im carrying a spare engine round in the back of the car!

Chucky wrote:Was trying to point out that comparing a 4.2 GQ to a 2000 prado, the prado wont compare as an off road car.

I recently went shopping for a new car and looked at both.
GXL TD Prado was a fair bit cheaper than the ST patrol. On road the prado is $55,490 with full tanks of diesel (180l) and towbar. The best price the nissan dealer would give was $60,790 without any extras.
Then add the spec's

Prado - 127Kw @ 3400 410Nm @ 1600
Patrol - 118Kw @ 360 354Nm @ 2000
Prado - weight 1980Kg Towing cap - 2500kg
Patrol - Weight 2355Kg Towing cap - 2500kg
Prado fuel - 180l
Patrol - 125l

The only thing the patrol has going for it solid front end and good lsd. Use the money saved on diff locks and suspension lift and the prado is leaps and bounds in front of the patrol.

And prado's look better too

I agree on your first point (and it will take no convincing either) but the GU is still a better offroad vehicle than the 120 series Prado. I find it interesting you can say the old GQ is a better offroader when the GU is basically the same underneath the shiney panels and different engines. They're just as good as each other, GU probably better if you don't mind dents. Any older 4wd is better than the newer ones going by this theory...less stuff to break and go wrong not to mention you dont have to worry as much about denting it i guess.

but anyway, this arguement could go on for alot longer if you're trying to say what i think you are

BTW dealer you went to wasn't interested in a sale. Anyone who walks out the door of a nissan dealer paying more than $55,000 for a stock standard patrol ST 3.0L TD isn't very good at haggling . A mate just drove out of a dealer with a brand spanker 08 plated ST manual with a bullbar and towbar for just a smidgen under $50,000 with onroads AND metallic paint!

That price is pretty normal for that particular prado (my observations).


ps: i think its absolutely disgusting how much nissan charge for their product...the GU should cost $45,000 for the base model. Its seen sweet fsk all development since 1998 and has only gone up in price when going by automotive theory it should be getting cheaper. Same as the ute, ridicolus cost!!!! Only reason they can get away with it would be same reason as toyota, in comparision to their other vehicles it would be a very low production vehicle. Much like the landy Defender. Attracts a big price because of low production numbers and more hand finishing and assembly than the mass produced wagons. /rant

If the patrols still came out with the TD4.2 then I would have gone with one of those.
Datsun made a huge mistake in not replacing that engine.

As for blowing diff's. For years I've been warned about weak front diff's in the 80. But in 5 years I've never had any trouble with it. Lockers certainly helps there. How you drive, and maintain your vehicle decides alot of how long bits last. In all then time I've owned the cruiser I've only blown one CV on the track, all others I've changed before they blow because I know they are worn.

It wasn't my intentions to bash patrols, If they still had the 4.2 I'd have on of these on order right now. But as they stand now, the patrol is no-where as near as good a car was it was. Same as the 200 series, except they went the other way.
Incredable engine, poor choice of running gear.

TOY ETA wrote:If you would do a count on blown Prado Diffs I am sure they would out number the blown Patrol engines x 10 .
I have seen 2 blow and one went while idling around a tight turn on a dirt road all wheels on the ground and no loud pedal!
Ihave also heard of lots of other problems from them as well such as tow bars breaking of and gearbox issues as well .The prado I was in was a lot bumpier to drive around in than an old gq Patrol but I will give it this it did get up and go.

While I agree that the Prados have a history of weak diffs, so do most late model IFS vehicles (especially Toyotas).

However I always laugh at comments like "it blew while idling around a corner" surely people have enough brains to realise that the diff had obviously suffered the damage at another point in time

ALso owning a Prado and having used its pathetic attempt at low range I would have to say my opinion is that the low range plays a big part in the diff failures its just not low enough and allows way to much speed to be carried.

Either way though I would buy the Prado over the Patrol everyday of the week unless I was interested in building up a dedicated offroad rig, and even then I wouldnt buy a Patrol

Chucky wrote:If the patrols still came out with the TD4.2 then I would have gone with one of those.
Datsun made a huge mistake in not replacing that engine.

As for blowing diff's. For years I've been warned about weak front diff's in the 80. But in 5 years I've never had any trouble with it. Lockers certainly helps there. How you drive, and maintain your vehicle decides alot of how long bits last. In all then time I've owned the cruiser I've only blown one CV on the track, all others I've changed before they blow because I know they are worn.

It wasn't my intentions to bash patrols, If they still had the 4.2 I'd have on of these on order right now. But as they stand now, the patrol is no-where as near as good a car was it was. Same as the 200 series, except they went the other way.
Incredable engine, poor choice of running gear.

td42 or not, they still ask for too much money for them. patrol is NOT worth the $$$ they put on the sticker. :( I tried my hardest to get my olds to go the last of the 4.2 GU's but the price was the issue. We couldn't see where the extra $5000 over the 3.0L was going (so instead i got them to wait for the CRD...which i think was a good move as theirs is pretty good compared to some of the stores floating around the web at the moment)

(back to poor value of td42 patrol) Especially when you factor in having to get the thing retuned because nissan can't setup a diesel pump properly.


As for diffs, they're just plain weak these days it seems? JK wranglers are starting to have some issues too. Diffs crapping themselves (questionable sources) and unijoints (JK uses unis instead of CV's) just exploding. Most commonly occuring on flat ground under basically no power application. These are issues not common to part time vehicles like the hilux/navara/bt50 which are suffering diff failures with 4wd use - typically driver error aka rev rev rev/bounce bounce bounce = bang. I think the issue might have something to do with the stress of the 'constant" 4wd these vehicles are being asked to endure on high traction surfaces, day in day out. if that makes any sense? Coupled with lighter running gear (cost cutting...its probably cheaper to replace one broken diff out of 100 vehicles than it would be to just make them all from stronger materials) than the other constant 4wd vehicles out there like the real man's landcruiser it must provide just the right formula for failures.

personal opinion, i'm obviously not an engineer but i'm not a 'whats a free running hub do' type either