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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:59 pm
by Suspension Stuff
It is going to want to twist forward especially under braking. This will load up the bushes more and probably make the steering a bit twitchy under braking.
I don't think there is enough separation between bushes where it is located.
If you remove the rear bolt it would be better balanced. I know it would hit under full flex but you really wouldn't need any more flex.
Shane
Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:13 pm
by Mick.
nastytroll wrote:
Big O arms are the same design as 2dextreme arms but made from a lowwer grade material, they are fine for normal use but have been known to bend under comp conditions. Good value for a tourer or weekend player.
Who has bent these arms under comp conditions?
I'm running them on my Comp truck with an X-link and running 42s and I give this thing a fair flogging and I haven't bent an arm in 18 months i've had them. The only thing I broke at Tuff Truck this year was a CV, the arms held up fine.
BTW my arms are 4 inches longer then his standard arms so if anything they would be weaker.
Cheers Mick.
Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:52 pm
by nastytroll
Mick. wrote:nastytroll wrote:
Big O arms are the same design as 2dextreme arms but made from a lowwer grade material, they are fine for normal use but have been known to bend under comp conditions. Good value for a tourer or weekend player.
Who has bent these arms under comp conditions?
I'm running them on my Comp truck with an X-link and running 42s and I give this thing a fair flogging and I haven't bent an arm in 18 months i've had them. The only thing I broke at Tuff Truck this year was a CV, the arms held up fine.
BTW my arms are 4 inches longer then his standard arms so if anything they would be weaker.
Cheers Mick.
It was one of the OBC trucks this year, I would buy Big O arms for a tourer dont get me wrong. I don't remember who it was, it was in another thread on here.
Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:34 am
by azzad
Ive heard the same story but noone could back it up.
It was said originally that it broke than the story changed to it bent but noone knew who it was.
I know of several comp trucks running these and noone has had any problems.
Dazza
Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:38 am
by TheBigBoy
qwikcorty, once you remove the front bolt pins and only the virticle ones are left. It wont bind up. Ive done alot of tests. And from my thinking. If the distance between the standard mounting points (holes) are the same vertically then it will be the same under breaking. Besides when it is in 5link mode i wont be going very fast. Ive made some moch up ones so far. Have to get a pro to make some strong ones.
Im no pro at this and its just my idea. But i do understand roughly whats involved. I only go serious 4x4ing maybe 5 times a year. So i want something that handles the same on the road as now. But I do want unbelievable flex when i do go rockcrawling.
Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:51 am
by TheBigBoy
The same as why hasnt anyone made longer shocks, telescopic ones like these or something. Surely we have the technology.
When I have the same travel as this and hydrolics shocks for stability + normal road handling, ill be a happy man.
http://www.actionjackson.com/cruiser/mods/20060110.asp
Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:48 am
by 1MadEngineer
WELL thats thinking outside the box. But alas it has a few teething problems...... pinion plunge will be terrible, IC will be nearly as bad as factory. I think with the front bolts installed it will create an unmeasurable amount of bind, as it almost equates to a 7 link!
. a bit of refinement and it may work OK in 5link mode, but the distacnces and angle need special attention.
Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:49 am
by 1MadEngineer
TheBigBoy wrote:The same as why hasnt anyone made longer shocks, telescopic ones like these or something. Surely we have the technology.
When I have the same travel as this and hydrolics shocks for stability + normal road handling, ill be a happy man.
http://www.actionjackson.com/cruiser/mods/20060110.asp
been done! give glen dobbin a call, or pete at OPW.
Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:52 am
by TheBigBoy
What do you think of this easier design then 1madeengineer?
Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:10 pm
by coxy321
How many of you guys are running/have run a combination of drop box AND dropped radius arms?
Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:30 pm
by KIWI
I'm running drop boxes, with the standard superior flex arm, seems to work ok, but have yet to try it properly
Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:31 pm
by coxy321
KIWI wrote:I'm running drop boxes, with the standard superior flex arm, seems to work ok, but have yet to try it properly
What lift have you got running with that gear?
Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:41 pm
by KIWI
At the moment its a 3" dobinson lift, but will eventually go 4" (swb)
Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:56 pm
by Mick.
azzad wrote:Ive heard the same story but noone could back it up.
It was said originally that it broke than the story changed to it bent but noone knew who it was.
I know of several comp trucks running these and noone has had any problems.
Dazza
It sounds like just a story to me. It's funny how they get around but when you ask who it was no body knows.
I would definently recomend them for comps. I know a couple of people running them to and none of us have had any dramas with them.
Cheers Mick.
Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:48 am
by wyliespatrol
Were are the pics of the damage done by 3rds arms
And what tine frame are we talking for this damage to start occurring
Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:59 am
by RoldIT
wyliespatrol wrote:Were are the pics of the damage done by 3rds arms
And what tine frame are we talking for this damage to start occurring
They're in search ....
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic933 ... rds+damage
Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:29 am
by 1MadEngineer
the frame mounts are really primarily designed to take compressive forces along the frame rail axis. When you add the 3rds hinged joint it creates a "lever arm" effect by inducing a leverage point in front of the actual pivot surface. This 'twisting' force is exerted into something that really wasn't designed for it, and subsequently fails.
Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:37 pm
by SIM79
wyliespatrol wrote:Were are the pics of the damage done by 3rds arms
And what tine frame are we talking for this damage to start occurring
jimsaq wrote:the 3rds drop arms are garbage in my opinion
the main arm part of them is very nicely made and are tough as anything, but not only does your radius shorten as 4bboy said, but they tear the mount out of the chassis due to their design. I have a set, have replaced them with superior's super flex arms and can't bring myself to sell the 3rds because I wouldn't want anyone else to rip the mount out of the chassis like mine did (both sides, a few months apart)
here's some pics for your interest:
first 3 taken when I originally replaced my factory arms with 3rds and last two were from when I replaced the 3rds with superior engineering's arms. you'll see what we mean by less radius and you'll see how they tightly clamp against the chassis mount due to the alloy bushes:
http://jason.qgl.org/images/4wd/random/ ... dius_arms/
here's a pic of the hole left in the chassis mount after the entire ring ripped out:
http://www.monster4x4.com.au/gallery2/d ... Large_.JPG
exactly the same thing happened on the drivers side as I was driving along the highway one day too. there's a thread or two on outerlimits where other people had the exact same issue as well. I phoned 3rds about it and they said the chassis welds are too weak. but I've never seen any other radius arm design do this, because they usually have a pin and maintain the original rubber bush setup which doesn't put anywhere near as much stress on the mount.
Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:30 pm
by wyliespatrol
wow thats bad!!!!!!!
i see what u mean
thanks for the heads up
Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:20 pm
by ozy1
Mick. wrote:nastytroll wrote:
Big O arms are the same design as 2dextreme arms but made from a lowwer grade material, they are fine for normal use but have been known to bend under comp conditions. Good value for a tourer or weekend player.
Who has bent these arms under comp conditions?
I'm running them on my Comp truck with an X-link and running 42s and I give this thing a fair flogging and I haven't bent an arm in 18 months i've had them. The only thing I broke at Tuff Truck this year was a CV, the arms held up fine.
BTW my arms are 4 inches longer then his standard arms so if anything they would be weaker.
Cheers Mick.
A Mate of mine actually bent one (or both), of the Big-o arms, he was running these in his GQ wagon, its not a comp truck, he was just doing some weekend wheeling,
there was a noticeable bend in these, i did have pics somewhere but cant seem to find them, he was told by big-o just to find a press and bend them straight again, so me, once its stressed it will bend again,
Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:35 am
by azzad
I know the original Big O arms are of different construction to the items they now produce.
Do you know which set he had?
Dazza
Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:21 am
by ozy1
the set he had were only purchased this year, and only lasted prob half a dozen trips if that,
Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:46 pm
by azzad
Well I have to say Iam very suprised.
Dazza
Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:51 pm
by uninformed
KIWI wrote:I know nothing about how these work, but have been told by many people that drop boxes will allow you to climb over obstacles better than drop arms, so if someone can explain why again?
I now run superior drop boxes with the standard flex arm on one side, factory other, only because they weigh so damn much I couldn't bring 2 arms back on the plane!
it is my understanding:
draw a straight line from the center of tyre(axle center line) where it meets the ground (contact patch) to the center of radius arm at chassis mount.
look at a factory coil cab patrol. this angle is not that steep. now add +4, +6 or + 8 coils, not to mention bigger tyres and this angle gets steeper, to the point where the vehicle wants to rip over its front axle(the front axle wants to drive under the vehicle rather than ride up over bumps).
also regarding handling of the vehicle, the angle of the radius arm from axle center to center of chassis bush of radius arm is the determining angle of front axle roll axis, whether it be understeer or oversteer. if the angle of the radius arm is up hill to the chassis end it will be roll oversteer. i dont know what a stock patrol is but im guessing that it would be very close to 0 degrees or 2degrees understeer to 2 degrees oversteer.... not much.
all the lifted patrols will be a great deal more oversteer.
do any of you raise (axle end) the panhard and drag link back up to factory angles?
with such big lifts the panhard is draging the axle to one side of the vehicle, this will also effect the handling of the rig....
Serg
Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:56 pm
by Suspension Stuff
uninformed wrote:
do any of you raise (axle end) the panhard and drag link back up to factory angles?
with such big lifts the panhard is draging the axle to one side of the vehicle, this will also effect the handling of the rig....
Serg
We will be doing this next year. I am getting a Patrol again. I am particular about a comfortable vehicle so these things will get done and then made available.
Shane
Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:46 pm
by TheBigBoy
RUNNING STOCK PANHARDS ON LIFTED PATROL. Ive just been through all of this... And from the people who have done it already. It really didnt make any difference (noticable). You have to do it at the diff end as the upper chassi panhard rod mount is already at its limit. The guy I met who had done it said the first time he did it he did the upper mount, and it just cracks out nomatter what he used and how much re enforcement he did. He's a welder by trade aswell. Then he did the lower and left the upper stock. NO NOTICABLE DIFFERENCE.
So from that. Your much better off running drop box's and lineing up your arms to horizontal (if you havent already). You can also do a highsteer to get rid of some bumpsteer but there will always be some...
Hope this helps
Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:12 pm
by SLASH
hi guys,thought i will tell you this.i bought a set of 3rds arms a few months ago to put in my coil cab but havnt installed them yet as i want to get everything and install it at the same time.i had a set in my old wagon and was happy with them wich is why i went there again.i did however change the alloy bushes to rubber bushes to lose that thud on the chassis and it seemed to work.after reading this thread and other similar stories i began to wonder weather i should fit these again.so i checked them today to see if i could maybe change the swivel bearing they use to a regular rubber radius arm bush as mentioned in this thread.upon inspection i was surprised to see that it already had a rubber bush in there on both.so it looks like 3rds have done this to rectify the problem of tearing the chassis mount.works just like an 80 arm now.hope this helps someone.
Lozza
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:09 pm
by 65Mog
Leveling out the panhards and steering makes a HUGE difference to how a lifted patrol drives! Take it from someone who has done it.
Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:27 am
by TheBigBoy
65Mog - Thats awsome!!! Thats what ive been chasing. But noone wants to do it for me. And from all the people ive asked, the few that have done it already told me that it didnt make a difference. They obviously just didnt want to do it either!
Where did you get it done, or did you do it yourself?
Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:00 pm
by 65Mog
It was done about 5 years ago by a workshop in Sydney, unfortunately he stopped making the histeer arms a few years ago.
. Hopefully get the first test set in before chrissy. Then i will have pics of the real time flex. Tell me what ya think?