Outer Limits 4x4 Board

bru21 wrote:Very valid points.

Is there any reason why I can't run 80s balls on a 60 rear?

would that be as strong as 60balls/60rear

I have 80 stuff here that owe me very little and the brakes are very sweet.

I know nothing at all about 60s stuff and I have never even so much as looked at one. I am assuming 80s balls are the same size as 60 balls?

really appreciate the help guys

Bru

80's are larger than 60/lux and hence the knuckle is 2bolt on the top which makes highsteer hard. they are 2.1mm dia smaller than GU but are 1.8mm ID bigger. YOU can actually JUST squeze in D60 long cv's with a bit of machining, but you would need custom spindles for the 35spline outers. Nissans neck down too much ~55mm where-as toyotas are 60mm which allow larger axle diameters and seals.

toyota 60/70/luxs are all the same and have a HUGE range of steering options.

1MadEngineer wrote:

bru21 wrote:Very valid points.

Is there any reason why I can't run 80s balls on a 60 rear?

would that be as strong as 60balls/60rear

I have 80 stuff here that owe me very little and the brakes are very sweet.

I know nothing at all about 60s stuff and I have never even so much as looked at one. I am assuming 80s balls are the same size as 60 balls?

really appreciate the help guys

Bru

80's are larger than 60/lux and hence the knuckle is 2bolt on the top which makes highsteer hard. they are 2.1mm dia smaller than GU but are 1.8mm ID bigger. YOU can actually JUST squeze in D60 long cv's with a bit of machining, but you would need custom spindles for the 35spline outers. Nissans neck down too much ~55mm where-as toyotas are 60mm which allow larger axle diameters and seals.

toyota 60/70/luxs are all the same and have a HUGE range of steering options.

Also the 60 serries run the large diff centre front and back 9.75'' or 10'' crown wheel cant remember which it is, instead of the little 8'' centre up front.
The only real benifit of running the 80 ball ends and swivle hubs is the extra steering lock.I belive you can get close to 40 degress out of the 80 compered to maybe just over 30 max out of the lux / 60 serries stuff.

dave wrote: Also the 60 serries run the large diff centre front and back 9.75'' or 10'' crown wheel cant remember which it is, instead of the little 8'' centre up front.
The only real benifit of running the 80 ball ends and swivle hubs is the extra steering lock.I belive you can get close to 40 degress out of the 80 compered to maybe just over 30 max out of the lux / 60 serries stuff.

we have clearenced everything and run 35-37degrees from lux(60) ones for the past 2 years, which is pretty much all a LONG is good for reliably. We did clearence the 60ser one and got over 42degree from it (to suit the CTM birf-elim), but not worth doing as the longs don't go that far. It makes the 118" BUS fairly niimble

A grafted GQ/GU front diff into 60/80/100 series gives you a much bigger CW&P and you still get to use Longfields.

JOHNZ on this forum had it done to his 100 series after breaking 3 100 series diffs.

Another cheap option is a Salisbury rear from a Defender with D60 outers and C's. They are easily upgraded to 30 or 35 spline depending on what locker you want to go with.

Micka wrote:A grafted GQ/GU front diff into 60/80/100 series gives you a much bigger CW&P and you still get to use Longfields.

JOHNZ on this forum had it done to his 100 series after breaking 3 100 series diffs.

Another cheap option is a Salisbury rear from a Defender with D60 outers and C's. They are easily upgraded to 30 or 35 spline depending on what locker you want to go with.

but a 60 series has a 241.3mm OD crownwheel compared to a H233 with a 233mm OD crownwheel? and the pinion bearings are almost identical. But a 60 series runs larger carrier bearings as well. I don't see where this is an UPGRADE. Unless i am mistaken and you are comparing the toyota 8". I recommended BRU go with a modded 60 series.

yeah a salsibury would do as well but the fab work & $$, and its harder to fix stuff when there isn't as many spares available.

1MadEngineer wrote:

Micka wrote:A grafted GQ/GU front diff into 60/80/100 series gives you a much bigger CW&P and you still get to use Longfields.

JOHNZ on this forum had it done to his 100 series after breaking 3 100 series diffs.

Another cheap option is a Salisbury rear from a Defender with D60 outers and C's. They are easily upgraded to 30 or 35 spline depending on what locker you want to go with.

but a 60 series has a 241.3mm OD crownwheel compared to a H233 with a 233mm OD crownwheel? and the pinion bearings are almost identical. But a 60 series runs larger carrier bearings as well. I don't see where this is an UPGRADE. Unless i am mistaken and you are comparing the toyota 8". I recommended BRU go with a modded 60 series.

yeah a salsibury would do as well but the fab work & $$, and its harder to fix stuff when there isn't as many spares available.

Yeah Greg I was comparing to the 8" 80/100 front diff. Also would retain the high pinion front for track rod clearance.

I agree with you on the whole Toyo Vs GQ/GU issue. We ran a 60 in our buggy with Longfields and the only failures were then from fatigued king pins/swivel ball joints. Never broke an axel, CW or Pinion.

Bru, I would recommend restructuring the finances to enusre that whichever axels you go with, just make sure that they are strong. Nothing worse than having a sweet drivetrain only to be let down by a weak driveline.

Thanks again.

As for the diffs, I'm not too stressed. I have the 80s here and will get the thing built and registered. I will later swap out the diffs and build something better to complete the project. Modified / cut diffs will make rego process more difficult.

I have not worried about the diffs till now as I was going to run a 3sgte with a jimny body.

My little bro wanted the motor as his driving ability in drift comps has been rising rapidly, and I decided an ICV buggy would be 100% road legal, also a trip to baja opened my eyes etc, so I decided chev it was.

As for restructuring the finances its a bit late:

I bought the 9.5k of shocks as the us dollar was good at the time and they can be adjusted to suit whatever I build. The steering wheel, quick disconnect and CNC brake gear was all from Kartek when I was there.

As for the 4130 / tig, I am obsessed with continuous improvement with whatever I build and this was the obvious choice.

As for the steel my last 3/3rd order has been misshipped to SA, just sweet! ordered on the 9th/12th

So I can't start fabbing till Monday as its the 44/2.4mm I have had on backorder.

cheers bru

dave wrote:

1MadEngineer wrote:

bru21 wrote:Very valid points.

Is there any reason why I can't run 80s balls on a 60 rear?

would that be as strong as 60balls/60rear

I have 80 stuff here that owe me very little and the brakes are very sweet.

I know nothing at all about 60s stuff and I have never even so much as looked at one. I am assuming 80s balls are the same size as 60 balls?

really appreciate the help guys

Bru

80's are larger than 60/lux and hence the knuckle is 2bolt on the top which makes highsteer hard. they are 2.1mm dia smaller than GU but are 1.8mm ID bigger. YOU can actually JUST squeze in D60 long cv's with a bit of machining, but you would need custom spindles for the 35spline outers. Nissans neck down too much ~55mm where-as toyotas are 60mm which allow larger axle diameters and seals.

toyota 60/70/luxs are all the same and have a HUGE range of steering options.

Also the 60 serries run the large diff centre front and back 9.75'' or 10'' crown wheel cant remember which it is, instead of the little 8'' centre up front.
The only real benifit of running the 80 ball ends and swivle hubs is the extra steering lock.I belive you can get close to 40 degress out of the 80 compered to maybe just over 30 max out of the lux / 60 serries stuff.

Longs steer to 40degree and have been sold that way from bobby for a while now.

Also Bru not everyone can go drop $10grand or more on a set of diffs. At the end of the day build what you are comfortable with putting together. As micka said " restructure so you can use the strongest possible axel cv combo you can afford.
You said 35 inch treads and no rock crap so i reckon 80 series diffs with longs front cromo rear axels would serve you fine mate. After all you said you allready have some.

will the 60s rear oil itself when running in the front in reverse?

worried about high speed lubrication.

cheers bru

bru21 wrote:will the 60s rear oil itself when running in the front in reverse?

worried about high speed lubrication.

cheers bru

As long as you are running a front engine rig which i guess you are the 60 rear will remain low pinion even if used up front so no oiling issues but it would be far easyer to just get a 60s front diff which runs the same size centre as the rear and if you wonted to you could put an 80s rear centre in it which gives you bigger pinion bearings and the centre has more webbing on it to help stiffen it and stop pinion deflection.

Ok to bring this all up again.

I have bought a set of gu's. I need the rear to be in the centre for the atlas, and as yet I don't have a centre for the rear. I will probably sell the gu front.

Now for the front I want gu width.

can I buy the d60 knuckles

http://www.reidracing.biz/images/innerC.jpg

and outers and cut the balls off the gu (or buy a gq, flip it, flip the centre back the correct way and fit 35 splines to perhaps an arb centre.

or am I better cutting a 60 series rear and (I need the diff to be quite offset - at least factory 200mm) and welding d60 knuckles?

I like the gu idea as I should be able to run both rear centres making for a matched pair and the need for only one spare.

I really don't want to spend months building diffs at this stage. But want a reasonable outcome.

regards

Bru

1MadEngineer wrote:spider 9's would be a bad idea! especially for what BRU intends on using them for.

All the desert racer guys will recommend diamond axles over any other, and they will also tell you that solid axle front ends are not the way to go!
Get a AAM 9.25! for the front and a Diamond 9" for the rear.

i do know of other cheaper options

what makes a diamond 9 stronger or better than a spider 9?

cheers, Serg

Have you priced the custom built diffs up?

$2k for GU housings
$2k for lockers front and rear?
How much are the D60 inner and outer C's? From memory they're around $300 for each piece, but I could be way out. So that's $1200 for the front. You won't need it for the rear as you're not rear steering.
Custom inner axles machined up to suit your D60 outers and GU 35 spline centres would be around $2k
Hubs, no idea, let's say $300 each so that's another $1200
Wheel studs, $16 each but you need 24 of them $384
Brakes? I'm assuming you'll run chev brakes or something? So there's the rotors, bracketry and machining to make them all fit. Let's say around $1k
Ujoints for the front. You could run $45 spicer ones or $500 CTM ones. I'd probably jjust go the spicer if you're not loading them up at full lock.

So roughly $9500 based on that, right? Or have I missed something on how you're planning to set them up?

Just make sure you think all the costs through before jumping down a particular route. Don't wanna see you spend more than you need to.

uninformed wrote:

1MadEngineer wrote:spider 9's would be a bad idea! especially for what BRU intends on using them for.

All the desert racer guys will recommend diamond axles over any other, and they will also tell you that solid axle front ends are not the way to go!
Get a AAM 9.25! for the front and a Diamond 9" for the rear.

i do know of other cheaper options

what makes a diamond 9 stronger or better than a spider 9?

cheers, Serg

the desert racer guys love diamonds them cus they are available in 3.5" x 1/2" wall chromoly tube (and will do 4" on request) so it almost eliminates any need for bracing. Dedenbear C's are much stronger for jumping then the fabricated Spidertrax ones , but they also get less steer angle.