Outer Limits 4x4 Board

crozza wrote:
If I wanted massive power myself , Id throw in a gen 3 I think.


crozz

Gen 3 would be a great weekend warrior

but i dont think you will see many doing the gibb river road
or many towing camper trailers around australia with them

which any of the higher power factory turbo diesels would be perfect for
heaps of low down torque and low fuel consuption , the availablity of diesel in the bush and factory toyota reliability
thats why i have 2 trucks each has it distinct purpose

3 ltr twin turbo petrol 2JZ 80series weekend fun truck
1HDFTE 80series long distance tourer

My $0.02 worth.

have a 1HZ in my 80 - It died at 330,000 after spinning the bottom end shells on number 1 (common issue as it's at the end of the oil cycle).
Rebuilt it with:
1HDT pistons and rods.
New Crank - ground, Nitrided and balanced to 5500 PRM
Head required no work after decking, acid dipped and tested = no blow down. Standard cam but exhaust ports opened up.
Cost $6500 plus crank.
Turbo injectors, new pump with 11mm plunger and boost compensator - had Dzltec do this in conjunction with the engine guy - aim was to have 160-180kw at rear wheels and be able to stay on the govenor for long periods.
Cost $3000.00
Turbo was an ebay special, rotormaster early style, custom u bend turbo setup so turbo up high, custom front mount intercooler.

So, I installed the turbo at 300,000 on an already thrashed motor - lasted 30k's with a 2.5 straight thru exhaust. Now since rebuild pro tuned running 12psi - 103 kw at rears on 35's and turbo maxed out with 3" mandrel setup exhaust. Next up is exhaust manifold and BB turbo to get up where the engine is set for and built for. Mind you I have full boost at 1800rpm and falls away after 3000rpm.

My engine man was trying to talk up the 1HDT but admitted they cracked heads easier due to the DI placement - he has seen a few that are unrepairable.

I love my setup as the torque is up around 500NM and the EGT's never go past 550C as the key to reliablity is keeping EGT under 500C. I can stand on it and the old bus flies. Overall the performance is good considering the additional weight now on board since the rebuild (6 point cage, sliders, rear bar, Tube front bar, Hydro Kings Bumpstops, big air Compressor and rear deck above spare tyre for the dog) but the exhaust manifold and BB turbo shoudl assist there!
Look I love it, and have built teh car as the toy - If didn't love diesels I woudl have Gen3'd teh thing but engineering costs outway the engine setup 2 to 1.

Have fun deciding!

80diesel4play wrote:Rebuilt it with:
1HDT pistons and rods.
New Crank - ground, Nitrided and balanced to 5500 PRM
Head required no work after decking, acid dipped and tested = no blow down.

How are you running 1HD-T pistons and the 1HZ head? Your compression ratio must be very low...?

hdj105 wrote:

80diesel4play wrote:Rebuilt it with:
1HDT pistons and rods.
New Crank - ground, Nitrided and balanced to 5500 PRM
Head required no work after decking, acid dipped and tested = no blow down.

How are you running 1HD-T pistons and the 1HZ head? Your compression ratio must be very low...?

Pistons are not bowled (ACL aftermarket) to suit the 1HDT combined with teh head gasket being double the thickness - compression came down from 19:1 to 18:1 - so I can run more boost through the precomp chambers and head without higher compression adding to heat. Will mean an extra 60HP once new turbo on and less heat strain on the block/head. the Nitriding of the crank will assist the bearings as the flex is taken away under high load.

Thats why i had the crank balanced to 5500 rpm instead of 4500 RPM. Making sure it doesn't shake a leg or have bearing cap issues which stock 1HZ will have.

If you fit and use a pyrometer whilst driving I do not believe you will have too many problems, if you get 550 deg post turbo BACK off and let it cool down.

you will probably shorten the life of motor somewhat but if a motor thats expected to go for 800000 km dies when its had 4000000 with a turbo on it then you havnt really lost out, if it has fulfilled its job in the meanwhile.

IMHO
Paul

80diesel4play wrote: Pistons are not bowled (ACL aftermarket) to suit the 1HDT

They aren't 1HD-T pistons then! Sound like 1HZ-T pistons.

G'day Guys,

Just a question for thrashlux, did you say EGT's "POST" turbo were 600 degrees? Giving most agree that the turbo pre/post temp is roughly 200 degree different, does that mean you were running pre turbo temps into the 800's? That's pretty heady engine temps for the 1HZ. Just wanted to clarify mate, any info that will help keep my turbo 1HZ alive is greatly appreciated (I would love, but can't afford the HD-FTE!).

Cheers,

Ross.

i dont know where 200deg difference in pre/post comes from as that is a lie.

The only real difference is that pre will show spikes in temps whereas the post will not.

If you can find a way of removing 200deg of heat energy in under 1 microsecond over like 30cm please tell me....

rosscotd105wa wrote:G'day Guys,

Just a question for thrashlux, did you say EGT's "POST" turbo were 600 degrees? Giving most agree that the turbo pre/post temp is roughly 200 degree different, does that mean you were running pre turbo temps into the 800's? That's pretty heady engine temps for the 1HZ. Just wanted to clarify mate, any info that will help keep my turbo 1HZ alive is greatly appreciated (I would love, but can't afford the HD-FTE!).

Cheers,

Ross.

The 600 degrees was only after going up a steep hill with the full load on and this may have happened 2 or 3 tikmes usally i would only have the temps about 400 in normall day to day use

i cannot state wether the info i was given on target temps was incorrect but i always kept it under 550 -600 no matter what thats what the guy with the dyno who set it up told me to do to be safe

i have not heard of the 200 deg diff before?
more so a faster reaction time though i am not discounting this
my thermocouple was mounted 2 inchs from the turbo exhaust wheel directly in the exhaust stream

i have been told by a cylinder head expert that NA 1hz heads crack and this is normal but you dont normally find out about it but the extra heat from the turbo pushes them over the edge and crack further

a turbo will increase combustion chamber temps as soon as you turn up the fuel

which is what you have to do if you want any major power increase


hope that is of some help

jonathan

Z()LTAN wrote:i dont know where 200deg difference in pre/post comes from as that is a lie.

The only real difference is that pre will show spikes in temps whereas the post will not.

If you can find a way of removing 200deg of heat energy in under 1 microsecond over like 30cm please tell me....

While I think you're probably right with the spike theory, the turbine will also be taking some heat out of the exhaust gasses, though the amount would be interesting to actually know. I don't have a turbod car so I can't do it myself, but to all those with a turbo and pyro, borrow a mates pyro n do the ShortyIQ test, so we can put this arguement to rest. No doubt this has been done before but show me the data...

Hi guys,

Thanks for your reply Jonathan, pretty much what I had heard too. Always looking into what makes 1HZ's go bang! The most I have hit so far is 618 degrees going up hill fully loaded on a trip over East (pre turbo temp).

Z()ltan, google is my friend, I just typed: pre post diesel turbo egt

I did lots of research before turboing my cars. Have a read of these to get started,

http://www.thermoguard.com.au/operate.html
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/89-93 ... turbo.html

There's plenty of 'scientific evidence' on the differences in exhaust temps before and after turbos, using two guages. I like to investigate..! No body likes to be called a liar. I'm interested in the factory turbo 1HZ, would be useful when my non factory turbo engine goes bang (I'm sure it will one day).

Have a nice evening all,

Ross.

well ill be

Proven wrong it would seem


I cant see how if ye are using the laws of physics we can see that much of a temp difference...


....there must be some scientific reason to why the pre is so much higher....


weird...

Hey Z()ltan,

No prob mate, I'm pretty rusty (and no physicist!), but I think it has to do with the whole energy can't be created or destroyed deal. The energy from the exhaust gases from the engine is being used to compress the air going into the engine between each of the turbos blades, exhaust and inlet. Some of this heat energy is lost (changed?) in achieving this. I'm sure there will be a whole lot of people cringing at that rather poor atempt to explain it.. ! All I can say is that it seems to be the case in most turbo systems.

Cheers,

Ross.

Hey zc351,

I know this thread is pretty old now (sorry about the off track route) but what set up did you decide to go with

Ross.

i think your onto something there Rossco

thinking back to my highschool physics i do remember that.

Energy can only be converted so if u look at it as a percentage, say 100% is full gas flow. Say 25% of that is used to turn the rotor, 10% as heat soak into housing and 65% as exhaust out the dump.

100% - 25% = 75%
75% - 10% = 65%

say 700deg is max in the manifold

65% of 700deg = 455deg

Thus 700deg pre and 455 post

Obviously there are other factors to take into account but the physics are there to support it.


Cheers for correcting me and making me think some more lol

rosscotd105wa wrote:Hey zc351,

I know this thread is pretty old now (sorry about the off track route) but what set up did you decide to go with

Ross.

I ended up going with nothing Rossco but thanks for asking

After cruising this site for a while and seaching all manner of information abou the turbo kit and diffs and transmissions, as well as the info i got here in this thread i've decided that instead of spending 5 ish on a turbo I'd just drive the damn thing and i took my trailer away for the week end as well and decided that when the time comes for me to do the big lap i won't be in a hurry anyway so phuck it that cash buys a lot of CD's and diesel

Thanks to everyone who contributed much appreciated

cheers

I have had a little think about this per post temp debate and due to the ënergy cannot be destroyed theory it makes complete sence that their would be temp lost

How much is the question??

this thought also occured to me
the more boost (more energy transfer)= more temp drop

I would be keen to see the results from the double pyro
their results ,if my theroy is correct would have to have a scale for boost as well

would be great if some body does this and posts the results
not that i need the info any more but it is always good to increase the amount of actual quantified info out there so people can make the corect decsion based on fact rather than theory

cheers

jonathan

thrashlux wrote:I have had a little think about this per post temp debate and due to the ënergy cannot be destroyed theory it makes complete sence that their would be temp lost

How much is the question??

this thought also occured to me
the more boost (more energy transfer)= more temp drop

I would be keen to see the results from the double pyro
their results ,if my theroy is correct would have to have a scale for boost as well

would be great if some body does this and posts the results
not that i need the info any more but it is always good to increase the amount of actual quantified info out there so people can make the corect decsion based on fact rather than theory

cheers

jonathan

I think if you did the 2 pyro tests you would end up with very basic results for that individual motor/turbo/exhaust mani/combination etc. The results may be able to be applied generally tho. Basically the systems drop 150/200 deg c across the turbine (SEE ROSCOTD105WA POST).

im setting up pre and post thermocouples as an experiment on my turboed 1HZ ill let u know how it goes