Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Shadow wrote:

dumbdunce wrote:

Shadow wrote:

ads80 wrote:why???????????

it will breath so much better than the indirect injection.

he would have to change pistons and conrods too. and injectors, lines, timing cover, inlet manifold, probably more. its not a simple swap.

why?

What would the compression do with hz rods and pistons? Too high?

it would be astronomical. it wouldn't even turn over. the combustion chamber is in the 1HZ head but it is in the 1HD-(F)T pistons. the direct injection head is essentially flat. the factory turbo pistons have larger diameter gudgeons so it follows you need the turbo rods (although in theory I giess if you had time and lathe skillz you could conceivably sleeve the 1HZ gudgeon pins into 1HD-FT pistons).

ads80 wrote:I run a 1hz, balanced internals, hpc coated everything, garret turbo, air to air int, 25psi boost, modded fuel pump, makes 165rwkw and well over 1200nm from 1500rpm to 6000, and has been reliable now for over 3 years
http://s294.photobucket.com/albums/mm10 ... I_9377.flv

holy phucking shit!! that sounds insane!! awesome shit man, any more vids ?

Thats all very good. But Im still finding it hard to match it to a stock V8...

I can see why, it makes more power and a shit load more tourqe than any stock v8, if you want a nice tourer/cruiser go for a v8 and your v8 would also be a cheaper option

TheBigBoy wrote:Thats all very good. But Im still finding it hard to match it to a stock V8...

depends on which v8?
253 hmm dont think so

ls1 would have more power but no more torque

Gen 3, 300bhp 1450nm. 900nm @ 1800rpm. The diesels are good. But I just want to know ill be happy with it stepping out of my V8.

well put a LS1 in it! you can beef them up pritty easily if you know what your doing! and why do you want big HP when what you really wont is torque!

TheBigBoy wrote:Gen 3, 300bhp 1450nm. 900nm @ 1800rpm. The diesels are good. But I just want to know ill be happy with it stepping out of my V8.

thats no std torque figure what have you done?

TheBigBoy wrote:Gen 3, 300bhp 1450nm. 900nm @ 1800rpm. The diesels are good. But I just want to know ill be happy with it stepping out of my V8.

1450nm is 3 times the torque of a standard ls1.

Yeah thats in the wheels. Its stock as a rock apart from after market computer, exhaust + maffless tune etc.. Those figures are after it goes through the gearing though.

But I want to down grade. Dont want to have to do another engine conversion. 80 series are bloody good and bloody cheap. I think ill have to look a bit further into it before comitting to the 4.2. Maybe a 4.5 with some mild work on gas. Still not sure.

A stock 4.2td is roughly 99kw/132bhp - 299nm/220lb/ft But thats stock.

TheBigBoy wrote:Yeah thats in the wheels. Its stock as a rock apart from after market computer, exhaust + maffless tune etc.. Those figures are after it goes through the gearing though.

But I want to down grade. Dont want to have to do another engine conversion. 80 series are bloody good and bloody cheap. I think ill have to look a bit further into it before comitting to the 4.2. Maybe a 4.5 with some mild work on gas. Still not sure.

A stock 4.2td is roughly 99kw/132bhp - 299nm/220lb/ft But thats stock.

did you do your dyno run in 1st gear lol?

Shadow wrote:

TheBigBoy wrote:Yeah thats in the wheels. Its stock as a rock apart from after market computer, exhaust + maffless tune etc.. Those figures are after it goes through the gearing though.

But I want to down grade. Dont want to have to do another engine conversion. 80 series are bloody good and bloody cheap. I think ill have to look a bit further into it before comitting to the 4.2. Maybe a 4.5 with some mild work on gas. Still not sure.

A stock 4.2td is roughly 99kw/132bhp - 299nm/220lb/ft But thats stock.

did you do your dyno run in 1st gear lol?

no low range 1st

Ok, I can tell people are not sure. There is a big difference once it goes through the gearing. Here's an old dyno run (the only 1 I have a picture of on my comp).

Dyno run 4th gear. 290 bhp 1100lb/ft = 1489 nm. And I have over 300 bhp now with a few easy mods (mostly to do with air). So Id have more than that in torque now aswell. V8's are not less torque than Diesels. Remember mine is still stock'o. And the torque is right up there early. Its a shame he didnt start my run with less rev's.

Not bagging diesels, each to their own. But its still hard to compair to figures like this.



ps. The standard torque figures for the 4.2td in my previous post doesnt sound right. I will have to re check it.

your right

gearbox is in 1:1 (close as you can be) but your diff gears are multiplying your torque.

Yep. Thats why people should ignore the flywheel hp out put that come with from the dealers and only work in bhp.. Its the only really true reading and varies from truck to truck with different mods etc...

hp and torque are somewhat related. But varies from diesel to petrol so its hard to measure. Otherwise you could just say 3 times the power = 3 times the torque.

TheBigBoy wrote:Ok, I can tell people are not sure. There is a big difference once it goes through the gearing. Here's an old dyno run (the only 1 I have a picture of on my comp).

Dyno run 4th gear. 290 bhp 1100lb/ft = 1489 nm. And I have over 300 bhp now with a few easy mods (mostly to do with air). So Id have more than that in torque now aswell. V8's are not less torque than Diesels. Remember mine is still stock'o. And the torque is right up there early.

Not bagging diesels, each to their own. But its still hard to compair to figures like this.

hey dude i am just taking the piss

the gen 3 is good for around 500 nm std which is a good strong figure

the 1hdfte in a 100 series is good for the same with an exhast and cooler with no fueling mods

my 1HDFTE produces 155kw and 430Nm (flywheel)

using say diff gears should give torque at wheels about 4.11*430Nm = 1767Nm. less losses through the drivetrain. So would be a about 1400Nm i would guess.

Shadow - You lose alot through the drive train hey... Youd have about 163bhp. I cant work out your torque at the moment though. You wouldnt have anywhere near 1400 though.

TheBigBoy wrote:Shadow - You lose alot through the drive train hey... Youd have about 163bhp. I cant work out your torque at the moment though. You wouldnt have anywhere near 1400 though.

ls1 has 450Nm and your getting 1450 at the weels.

I assume your patrol has about 4.11 diff gears same as a cruiser.

So your ratio of flywheel to rear wheels is 3.22

3.22 * 1HDFTE torque(430Nm) = 1385Nm.

Sure its rough and ready comparison, but it would be close id imagine.

Certainly no slouch nexto your Ls1 though. Not bad considering it produces nearly half the power.

throw a 3" mandrel exhaust, DP chip and a bigger(better) intercooler and i rekon youd be easily getting as much torque as your LS1, if not more.

Your not taking into account the near 30% loss through the drive train. Its hard to work out. The best thing is to get it dyno'd. Anyone out there with dyno torque figures to post on their 4.2td.

That is why I was asking about the over 200bhp question and affecting reliability. Your longer stroke than bore and diesel combustion (Extremely High compression) is what gives you your extra torque.

just fitted a 1hdfte to my fzj105 auto cost me 12grand but the performance compared to the 1fz is amazing and twice the economy

TheBigBoy wrote:Your not taking into account the near 30% loss through the drive train. Its hard to work out. The best thing is to get it dyno'd. Anyone out there with dyno torque figures to post on their 4.2td.

That is why I was asking about the over 200bhp question and affecting reliability. Your longer stroke than bore and diesel combustion (Extremely High compression) is what gives you your extra torque.

yeh i am. I am using your figures. Your LS1 would produce about 450 nM at flywheel.

Your dyno says youve got 1450nM at the wheels.

The losses through a patrol driuvetrain would be similar to a cruiser drivetrain.

so the ratio of 3.2 should be accurate enough to make an assessment.

But this is what I mean. You cant go off the fly!!! Id imagine youd be close about 1050nm which is bloody good for torque... But im just worried about the other figure .

Ah there you go... 1200lb/ft standard. Nice. But you realise non of this helps me unless I want to transplant your engine into my 80 series.

TheBigBoy wrote:Ah there you go... 1200nm standard. But you realise non of this helps me unless I want to transplant your engine into my 80 series.

1HDFT is not far behind an FTE.

Just make sure you get a multivalve and your set.

Yeah, Thanks for that mate...

I had plans to supercharge/turbo, or cam and heads package for mine. But its already got more than enough for me. Maybe I will just get 1 build. How much can you sell a 4.2td (80 series) engine for?

depends on the k's but $5k should be easy enough