Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hey

Just letting a few of you that asked my twister arms are in pre production.

Looking at materials and stuff.

I have sorted a deal out with a local fab shop

I will keep ya posted

HRZOOK

HRZOOK wrote:Hey

Just letting a few of you that asked my twister arms are in pre production.

Looking at materials and stuff.

I have sorted a deal out with a local fab shop

I will keep ya posted

HRZOOK

are you just getting 1 set custom made, or are they going to be available to buy ? any idea of the price ?

nelligen wrote:

HRZOOK wrote:Hey

Just letting a few of you that asked my twister arms are in pre production.

Looking at materials and stuff.

I have sorted a deal out with a local fab shop

I will keep ya posted

HRZOOK

are you just getting 1 set custom made, or are they going to be available to buy ? any idea of the price ?

I don't know if this guy wants to make more than 1 set I will have to ask.

The price is a funny story.....well sort of funny......ok it's not funny at all

I was talking to Scott the owner of the fab shop. I mentioned I was an arborist (killer of trees). He is building a new joint and needs two trees removed. I am knocking over the trees on Saturday and thats the payment.

Scott is setting up a jig for the job which I will own. So if he does not want to make any more twister arms I would lend this jig out if ne body wanted to borrow it.

HRZOOK

I'll keep ya posted

HRZOOK wrote:

nelligen wrote:

HRZOOK wrote:Hey

Just letting a few of you that asked my twister arms are in pre production.

Looking at materials and stuff.

I have sorted a deal out with a local fab shop

I will keep ya posted

HRZOOK

are you just getting 1 set custom made, or are they going to be available to buy ? any idea of the price ?

I don't know if this guy wants to make more than 1 set I will have to ask.

The price is a funny story.....well sort of funny......ok it's not funny at all

I was talking to Scott the owner of the fab shop. I mentioned I was an arborist (killer of trees). He is building a new joint and needs two trees removed. I am knocking over the trees on Saturday and thats the payment.

Scott is setting up a jig for the job which I will own. So if he does not want to make any more twister arms I would lend this jig out if ne body wanted to borrow it.

HRZOOK

I'll keep ya posted

Thats great , are you going to build in the castor correction angle or still run the correction bushes , if you correct the angle on the arm itself you will be able to run soft rubber bushes in the front , but I guess hard bushes won't be an issue with the twisting arms.

nelligen wrote:Thats great , are you going to build in the castor correction angle or still run the correction bushes , if you correct the angle on the arm itself you will be able to run soft rubber bushes in the front , but I guess hard bushes won't be an issue with the twisting arms.

hard bushes limit flex even with twister arms as they actually have to compress unless you have a wristed radius arm or disconnect one bolt

suzukisam wrote:

nelligen wrote:Thats great , are you going to build in the castor correction angle or still run the correction bushes , if you correct the angle on the arm itself you will be able to run soft rubber bushes in the front , but I guess hard bushes won't be an issue with the twisting arms.

hard bushes limit flex even with twister arms as they actually have to compress unless you have a wristed radius arm or disconnect one bolt

Is disconnecting one of the diff mounts on the trailing arm just asking to tear off the remaining connected mount from the diff.

Just a thought

HRZOOK

suzukisam wrote:

nelligen wrote:Thats great , are you going to build in the castor correction angle or still run the correction bushes , if you correct the angle on the arm itself you will be able to run soft rubber bushes in the front , but I guess hard bushes won't be an issue with the twisting arms.

hard bushes limit flex even with twister arms as they actually have to compress unless you have a wristed radius arm or disconnect one bolt

Lester can you please explain your theory on this. As far as I see it, if it swivels on the thread the bush end doesnt have to swivel much anyway.

Are you sure your bushes are not just to hard, because nelligen is using the purple super pro bushes that A1mav was using and it flexes great.

Here is a photo of Lester testing flex with one of the mounts disconnected.


HRZOOK

HRZOOK wrote:Here is a photo of Lester testing flex with one of the mounts disconnected.


HRZOOK

now Iam really confussed , disconnected mounts ?? I can't see what that photo proves other then the axel is falling out

Okay.
Now I am not saying this to push what we sell.
But both the Jimny and Coily have more than one weakness in the suspension setup in both strength and flex.
In my opinion you are flogging a dead horse trying to play with the factory setup as you will never be happy.
It would probably work out cheaper in the end to just rip it out and start from scratch.You will have a stronger and more capable rig.
I know some will say it isn't cheaper but by the time you add up springs, shocks ,bushes getting arms made,diff mounts strengthened,strut tops stregthened and so on it all adds up.
SAM

Sam, will your kit also work on a coily? How long now?

OVERKILL ENGINEERING wrote:Okay.
Now I am not saying this to push what we sell.
But both the Jimny and Coily have more than one weakness in the suspension setup in both strength and flex.
In my opinion you are flogging a dead horse trying to play with the factory setup as you will never be happy.
It would probably work out cheaper in the end to just rip it out and start from scratch.You will have a stronger and more capable rig.
I know some will say it isn't cheaper but by the time you add up springs, shocks ,bushes getting arms made,diff mounts strengthened,strut tops stregthened and so on it all adds up.
SAM

Believe me Sam I am coming to see you when I have the $$$

but in the intrim I am getting these twister arms made at the right price and it will have to do for now.

xtreem wrote:Sam, will your kit also work on a coily? How long now?

Sam is this true doesn't your coil conversion fit the coilly

HRZOOK

OVERKILL ENGINEERING wrote:Okay.
Now I am not saying this to push what we sell.
But both the Jimny and Coily have more than one weakness in the suspension setup in both strength and flex.
In my opinion you are flogging a dead horse trying to play with the factory setup as you will never be happy.
It would probably work out cheaper in the end to just rip it out and start from scratch.You will have a stronger and more capable rig.
I know some will say it isn't cheaper but by the time you add up springs, shocks ,bushes getting arms made,diff mounts strengthened,strut tops stregthened and so on it all adds up.
SAM

So well put Sam , thats what Ive been trying to say .

SAM[/quote] So well put Sam , thats what Ive been trying to say .[/quote]

Yeah but does it fit?

Wa das yas mean Sam has 9 " GRINDER AND MIG you can make anything fit with tools of the trade

xtreem wrote:
Lester can you please explain your theory on this. As far as I see it, if it swivels on the thread the bush end doesnt have to swivel much anyway.

Are you sure your bushes are not just to hard, because nelligen is using the purple super pro bushes that A1mav was using and it flexes great.

the front suspension in a coily has FOUR bushes on the axle housing.

when you are articulating the radius arms have to be at different angles (one up one down - right?)

to get any flex with all four bushes connected they have to compress (or the mounts rip off)

i suspect most mounts rip off because people upgrade their bushes to a hard compound.

One way to increase flex is to undo one of the bolts on the housing (as per the photo that hrzook posted)

it is the same effect as a 'wristed radius arm' - go do a search on this on the interweb

changing the suspension mounting points in NZ requires certification. I have managed to get a suspension setup approaching an RTI of 1000 with standard setup just longer shocks.

my theory is that if you stiffen any one part of the suspension up too much you will break something else.

cheers lester

suzukisam wrote:

xtreem wrote:
Lester can you please explain your theory on this. As far as I see it, if it swivels on the thread the bush end doesnt have to swivel much anyway.

Are you sure your bushes are not just to hard, because nelligen is using the purple super pro bushes that A1mav was using and it flexes great.

the front suspension in a coily has FOUR bushes on the axle housing.

when you are articulating the radius arms have to be at different angles (one up one down - right?)

to get any flex with all four bushes connected they have to compress (or the mounts rip off)

i suspect most mounts rip off because people upgrade their bushes to a hard compound.

One way to increase flex is to undo one of the bolts on the housing (as per the photo that hrzook posted)

it is the same effect as a 'wristed radius arm' - go do a search on this on the interweb

changing the suspension mounting points in NZ requires certification. I have managed to get a suspension setup approaching an RTI of 1000 with standard setup just longer shocks.

my theory is that if you stiffen any one part of the suspension up too much you will break something else.

cheers lester

I still think if you have the twister arms you won't be relying on the bushes compressing as much because the arm can twist on the thread. And if you have the right compound Urathane it still flexes good anyway as the photo's of A1MAV on here quiet cleary show.

And as far as the removing one of the bolts You wouldn't seriously wheel it like that would you? surely that is just for the ramp test? Because that is just going to put more stress on the arms as you try and control the axel wrapping, unless you have a centre mounted third arm stopping the wrap effect.

xtreem wrote:I still think if you have the twister arms you won't be relying on the bushes compressing as much because the arm can twist on the thread.

well I guess you are entitled to think what ever tickles your fancy -
however it still is hard to escape physics

the twister arms can only reduce the torsional flex in the axle-end urethane you still require the exact same amount of compression in the vertical direction to achievthe articulation.

and for the record i have only ever pulled the bolt out for the ramp, i'll try it out next trip. it will actually reduce the stress in the arms in every situation except wrap.



: : Flip off : :

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

have to agree with lester.i have bundera axles and radius arms under my coily it didn't flex until i drilled the rubber bushes out.I drop 1 front bolt four wheeling flexs heaps better no adverse affects.guys run v8 bunderas over here and do the same thing

have to agree with lester.i have bundera axles and radius arms under my coily it didn't flex until i drilled the rubber bushes out.I drop 1 front bolt four wheeling flexs heaps better no adverse affects.guys run v8 bunderas over here and do the same thing

xtreem wrote:Sam, will your kit also work on a coily? How long now?

With some mods it will work on a coily.
SAm

suzukisam wrote:[quote="xtreem]
I still think if you have the twister arms you won't be relying on the bushes compressing as much because the arm can twist on the thread.

well I guess you are entitled to think what ever tickles your fancy -
however it still is hard to escape physics

the twister arms can only reduce the torsional flex in the axle-end urethane you still require the exact same amount of compression in the vertical direction to achievthe articulation.

and for the record i have only ever pulled the bolt out for the ramp, i'll try it out next trip. it will actually reduce the stress in the arms in every situation except wrap.



: : Flip off : :[/quote]


Pulling the bolt out will only let it flex more on one side not bothe.
SAM

bella wrote:have to agree with lester.i have bundera axles and radius arms under my coily it didn't flex until i drilled the rubber bushes out.I drop 1 front bolt four wheeling flexs heaps better no adverse affects.guys run v8 bunderas over here and do the same thing

You may not be seeing the adverse effects YET. But I can't see how it is not going to chew out uni joints and for that matter pinion bearings. If you are not running some sort of trac bar to stop the wrap.

Not that I would prolly do it but would another threaded joint at the diff end, be a solution.

*thinks* " Two thread joints on one arm :homer droole:

HRZOOK wrote:Not that I would prolly do it but would another threaded joint at the diff end, be a solution.

*thinks* " Two thread joints on one arm :homer droole:

you have to have compressible bushes at the diff end of a three link or you get no suspension articulation.

if you can't see why - run ya truck up a ramp and have a close look at the bushes.

suzukisam wrote:i attacked the rubber bushes on the chassis end with a drill to soften them and allow them to twist a bit better. just drilled 'em top and bottom to stop the axle moving back and forward too much

but yeah the bollocks will transmit plenty of vibes with urethane bushes, i would have thought they'd be okay with the standard rubber

lester

Lester, did the drilling of the bushes help at all ??? What do you think about drilling the diff end bushes as well , Iam thinking about drilling all the bushes with a series of holes going in 1/3 the depth of the bush, from both sides leaving the centre 1/3 original , My bushes are the super pro bushes from fulcrum , they do flex ok but not as good as the original's.

drilling the urethane bushes made a huge difference. with the suzisport castor correction bushes in you could not tell if the swaybar was mounted or not and going around a corner hard on the road the front wheel would lift like about 100mm

after drilling about 5 holes above and below the centre steel part of the bush (used a 5mm bit) the flex is not to shabby at all.

be warned that drilling urethane requires a high speed grunty drill - i burned the switch out of mine doing it!!!

i'll dig out a pic sometime and post it

I'm looking at replacing all my bushes back to rubber - apparently you can buy the bushes independant of the whole arm

OVERKILL ENGINEERING wrote:
Pulling the bolt out will only let it flex more on one side not bothe.
SAM

I've got the castor correction bushes and as the bush is eccentric if i pull a front bolt it has enough clearance to flex both ways.

but ideally i want bushes made from a material that is stiff in one direction (to stop the axle moving back and forwards) and soft in the other (to allow flex) and the material has viscous damping properties (to reduce axle tramp).

there must be a suitable material out there somewhere

Lester , Repco have rubber bushes to suit the zook , do you have Repco in NZ