Outer Limits 4x4 Board

my ol man had heaps of troubles getting his 265 running right (278 stroker among other things) he started out with a 465 vac, then went to a 600 vac, then a 650 double pumper and then a 750 double pumper. It went really well with the 750 but would fuel out at 7000+ rpm or top end of 3rd gear which made 4th farked. He had a holley blue pump and updated it to larger fuel lines and a volumax and the thing hooned.

He then had this crazy idea, if 3 webers were equal to 1050cfm then with 3 350 it should work out really really well. He shopped around for about 12-15 months till he found a set of webers. but anyway, had up all the manifolds and linkages to run 3 350 holleys but never got to use them as he came accross a set of 51mm webers and manifolds to suit, he had them rekitted and (i think) larger jets and needles fitted to them, it runs the best it ever has. It will smoke 1st, 2nd and third before tracking up and this is with 285 rear tyres, not like there cheese cutters. A mate of mine has a VK commodore with a 150hp gas kit, ruff will justify how fast this car is, the charger, all 6 cly held the commodore buy about 1/2 a car lenght till the commodore run out of legs. My mate had been talking it up for ages, geeing my ol man up, he hasnt said much since


NICK

1MadEngineer wrote:

Chev.. everything else is just weak

i like it? but i remember goin to the drags and wathing the GATT boys tack weld the caps on a dead stock 351 2 bolt bottom end, slap on the heads and their blower and push that lard arse xb into the 8's.

have owned more chevs than fords but to get a chev into big hp you gotta put on cantered style heads (which are std on fords)
last chev i had was a blown 383 and if i was to play v8's again i would go 372+ci ford with yates c3 heads. easy mega hp

On a trip to the states a couple of years ago we visited Hall Pantera who specialise in restos and rebuilds on De Tomaso Panteras, the 70s 351 Cleveland powered Italian sports cars. Needless to say they had some very nice gear being fitted into their customers cars. Ready to be fitted was an alloy 420 ci Fontana Windsor with yates heads loaded with Jesel rocker gear and a Roush manifold with believe it of not, a farkin' big Holley on the top? The whole assembly was polished including the transaxle (these things were midmounted) and they guys there said their track cars easily fried tyres in 5th.
Worst thing Ford Oz ever did was stop building V8s cause it has meant a whole generation has grown up thinking all Ford has ever built is luxo-barge taxis and never performance cars.
Right now an XR6 turbo is looking like a neat engine swap once the TD42 dies!!!

You left out Rover

Rainbow Warrior wrote:You left out Rover

Ummm no i dont think he left it out. Its not realy an option when you are talking performance HP.


And where are all these big HP Chevs,Fords and Hemi's when HP hero's comes round every year at Summernats now days?

RUFF wrote:

Rainbow Warrior wrote:You left out Rover

Ummm no i dont think he left it out. Its not realy an option when you are talking performance HP.


And where are all these big HP Chevs,Fords and Hemi's when HP hero's comes round every year at Summernats now days?

ford small blocks almost always take out the aspirated small block class. aspirated is the real test, anyone can make power with boost. my brother makes near 600hp at the tyres with a holden, on a basic motor, vl turbo's are making 900hp. aspirated is where it is at. no artificial help.
except for the blue meanie a few years back. that was tuff.

NICK wrote:thats really poor for a hemi, 568ci and only 690hp?
the ol E49 spec 265 was pulling 302 ponnies standard and that was 30 years ago. Had NO problems blowing the doors of a GT HO or GTS of the same era.NICK

i dunno about blowing the doors off. diff ratios play a big part.

Thor you are right the HEMI style engine is the bench mark for power. Although you will find that ford originally designed the HEMI or "hemispherical head" design before Chrysler.

1MadEngineer wrote:Thor you are right the HEMI style engine is the bench mark for power. Although you will find that ford originally designed the HEMI or "hemispherical head" design before Chrysler.

True ...... and in typical ford fashion they couldnt get it to work either so they gave it away !!

Does anybody no about the new holley carbs that run on bullsh$t angles

4sum4 wrote:Does anybody no about the new holley carbs that run on bullsh$t angles

Holley Truck Avenger

Apparently they work quite well.

PM Rhys (planB) off this board. He had one on his 350 for a while iirc.

NICK wrote:

AnthonyP wrote:Wooders - There is a ZZ502 in australia thats been stroked to somthing along the lines of 568ci and the flywheel is putting out somewhere along the lines of 690HP.............

I was absolutely obsessed with these motors B4 I baught the rangie

thats really poor for a hemi, 568ci and only 690hp?
the ol E49 spec 265 was pulling 302 ponnies standard and that was 30 years ago. Had NO problems blowing the doors of a GT HO or GTS of the same era.


NICK

The ZZ502 is a chev and the torque figures were up around the 720 mark it was from the standard engine as you buy it but with a longer stroke. Abit more work and apparently the guy was expecteing a relaxed 1000Hp (running premium, no special fuel mixtures), but I never really followed it up much and this was about 3 or more years ago now.

Best chevy made - the LT4.....

Toyota 1UZ-FE - light, almost bullet proof and powerfull

CRUSHU wrote:

NICK wrote:thats really poor for a hemi, 568ci and only 690hp?
the ol E49 spec 265 was pulling 302 ponnies standard and that was 30 years ago. Had NO problems blowing the doors of a GT HO or GTS of the same era.NICK

i dunno about blowing the doors off. diff ratios play a big part.

3 seconds over a 1/4 mile is blowing the doors off the way i see it. And the R/T E49 was australias fast accelarating production for 20 years, only to be out done buy the VN SS group in a european wind tunnel. and it was only .1 of a second faster, to injection, twin throttle bodies, 6 gears and 20 years for holden to get there act together.


anyone know which car holds it now?


NICK

NICK wrote:

CRUSHU wrote:

NICK wrote:thats really poor for a hemi, 568ci and only 690hp?
the ol E49 spec 265 was pulling 302 ponnies standard and that was 30 years ago. Had NO problems blowing the doors of a GT HO or GTS of the same era.NICK

i dunno about blowing the doors off. diff ratios play a big part.

3 seconds over a 1/4 mile is blowing the doors off the way i see it. And the R/T E49 was australias fast accelarating production for 20 years, only to be out done buy the VN SS group in a european wind tunnel. and it was only .1 of a second faster, to injection, twin throttle bodies, 6 gears and 20 years for holden to get there act together.


anyone know which car holds it now?


NICK

mine.

nah dunno. if i had a wind tunnel id tell ya. the chryslers were amazing tho. your also talking 4.3L 6cyl vs 5.8L 8cyl. quick motors.

isnt it a 'hemi'spherical piston? not the head?

there is a regular at calder park. white chrysler centura. has a turbocharged 265 6cyl. the thing launches like no tomorrow.

seen as you have a turbo pattern bellhousing. id say go a chev. otherwise youd have to change alot more stuff to make it fit.

CRUSHU: atmo only way to go? whyd you go artifitial.

MaccA

no it is the head. started on in the 258 flat head canadian and went from there, think this could be the reason mx8 jeep injection fits with little modification


NICK

You know Guys,
Ive noticed the same trend from everyone on this thread and from others that ive spoken to not to mention the parts catalogues.
And i think that Holden V8's arnt even getting a mention for big HP. they are only mentioned cuase ppl run them cause they are cheap to get. not to mention parts are far more common for Chevs and Fords.
Hemis are the orignal name for big HP but i think ill stay away from them.
Me thinks Chev is the way to go rather than a Holden motor?

cheers

Screwy

yeah chev it up.

well its a 308 now. I can biuld another 308 and stroke it out but if i get a 350 its already far bigger and can stroke it out easier not to mention parts are easy and there is 10 times the range than for Holden.

screwy

true screwy, anything that is available in the US has a huge after market and with the way the dollar is, buying parts in is still a good option.


NICK

RUFF wrote:

Rainbow Warrior wrote:You left out Rover

Ummm no i dont think he left it out. Its not realy an option when you are talking performance HP.


And where are all these big HP Chevs,Fords and Hemi's when HP hero's comes round every year at Summernats now days?

Sorry I must have mistook beez kneez to mean 4x4 fun factor instead of drag car. I'm sure most of the old big blocks are a ball of fun in stock form at 6500rpm doing donuts on the beach.

Screwy_ScrewBall wrote:You know Guys,
Ive noticed the same trend from everyone on this thread and from others that ive spoken to not to mention the parts catalogues.
And i think that Holden V8's arnt even getting a mention for big HP. they are only mentioned cuase ppl run them cause they are cheap to get. not to mention parts are far more common for Chevs and Fords.
Hemis are the orignal name for big HP but i think ill stay away from them.
Me thinks Chev is the way to go rather than a Holden motor?

cheers

Screwy

Praise the LORD ....Jeff has seen the light !!!

Oh and Nick...... I think the E49 would still hold its own against most of the new stuff, just imagine if a EFI system was fitted and todays tech applied !!!

me thinks ill turn my rebuilder 308 into a 327 and biuld a chev as well.
The one that will go in my rig after my current 308 bites the dust will be a chev

ANYONE GOT ONE

NICK wrote:

CRUSHU wrote:

NICK wrote:thats really poor for a hemi, 568ci and only 690hp?
the ol E49 spec 265 was pulling 302 ponnies standard and that was 30 years ago. Had NO problems blowing the doors of a GT HO or GTS of the same era.NICK

i dunno about blowing the doors off. diff ratios play a big part.

3 seconds over a 1/4 mile is blowing the doors off the way i see it. And the R/T E49 was australias fast accelarating production for 20 years, only to be out done buy the VN SS group in a european wind tunnel. and it was only .1 of a second faster, to injection, twin throttle bodies, 6 gears and 20 years for holden to get there act together.


anyone know which car holds it now?


NICK

i dunno where you get your figures from, i thought both cars ran around the 14.6 second mark. you make it sound like the phase 3 ran a high 17!!! i think even the soft rooster xb gt ran quicker than that! and it still all lies in the diff ratio. vn grpa has a 3.45 diff, and 2 overdrives. ratios on the charger were shorter than that.

383FJ45 wrote:CRUSHU: atmo only way to go? whyd you go artifitial.

MaccA

atmo is where the truely tuff cars are, eg prostock or gas classes at the drags, or a/fuel dragsters for naturally aspirated top fuelers in the states.
blowers are cheap horsepower and bulk torque.

I think all the old motors can develop huge hp with the right money. At really big horsepower levels none of these motors will retain many original parts, except maybe big blocks.

Is one design more efficient than another? It appears the old 265 Hemi six creams the listed production V8's here.

Thats were the jap stuff comes in for my money. The Toy and Nissan 8's have such strong internals they can easily be tuned for big hp (well up to 800 or so) without much cash.

They are stronger, lighter, more efficient and heaps cheaper than any Ford, Chev, Holden, Chrysler.

Obviously they don't have the low end grunt of the big American iron, but they will rev hard and thats were the power is.

And I've yet to see it, but if you hate all the electronic stuff I can't see why you can't ditch it and sit a carby or two on top, it's the parts underneath that still count.

For the best bang for your buck- and reliability- I vote Jap V8's.

isn/t the name of this game to make low down power??? if you want big horsepower, big revs, and now torque, get a turbo rotor. capacity, or forced capacity, like turbo, nitrous or blown, is the only way to make low down torque.

btw, you can build a 351 clev with 400hp, with mildly (read cheaply) ported standard heads, cam and manifolds on a rubuild. more than enough usable power for most here i reckon. wont get that out of a toyota, or chev.

My RT E49 was truly an awsome motor as was the standard 265hemi and I have often wondered as to how it would stack up against todays engines with the tech that todays modern motors have ....

Things like
computer controled ignition, fuel injection, would certainly drastically improve performance ...... but I also wonder what the Jap designers could do to the original design that would help, surley an alloy head would be a starting point along with a host of other goodies.

Which brings me to my next question ........ I wonder why they havent taken the 265Hemi and built one with their own design changes ???? After all they would have a proven powerplant that simply needs to be modernised..... The Hemi being a 6 cylinder 4.3lit motor absolutly creams the 6 clinder 4.2lit motors that the japs have built to date.... makes ya wonder hey

Kingy

p/s
I first thought about a 265 hemi for a patrol some time back but availability made it a bit of a problem ...... interesting project that one might be ..... now what have I got laying around here I can use.... OOO OOO OOO there's a 265 hemi ...... and a 318 fireball motor to ...Ummmm Jeff, that white patrol, how bad is the motor ..........

slosh wrote:
And I've yet to see it, but if you hate all the electronic stuff I can't see why you can't ditch it and sit a carby or two on top, it's the parts underneath that still count.

For the best bang for your buck- and reliability- I vote Jap V8's.

ROFL!! Mine was about two weeks form having a carby welded to the top!

I notice that most of the people that are talking about FORD v8's are talking Cleveland. They are ok if you want to just get a little more HP or are just an amateur boy racer type,very cheap to modify and reasonable power output at reasonable cost.But for anyone serious about building a FORD the only way to go is with a Windsor,Big HP is obtainable and most importantly they will REV in big HP applications,unlike Clevelands,that will self destruct.You don't find professional Drag guys in the U.S. that run FORD equipment using Clevelands