Outer Limits 4x4 Board

The boss use the ARB strap.

We give it absolute hell, the only time it gets used is to pull a 5t Drill rig out, or a 6t Truck, have'nt broken it yet

I personally use a Black Snake, like i said before though

-Scott- wrote:
How would a tow2go strap have made any difference to me? How would it perform better?

taken from 4wda
Words by Ramsay Beacham The Tow2Go strap range, which is exclusive to SuperCheap Auto stores, is excellent value for money. In fact, the 8000kg Tow2Go snatchy took out top honours in the 4WD Monthly snatch-strap testing. http://www.4wdmonthly.com.au/reviews/ti ... basics.php

cant find any newer test results on the web.

old test results, after this arb improved their straps.
http://www.lizardlegs.com.au/blackrat/n ... 0Strap.pdf

to answer your question, the only difference would be coin saved, both straps perform the same when not in use.

I've got a black snake as well.
Bit hexy to buy but i've had it for about twice as long as any other stap lasted and its still going ok.
As menctioned PITA to roll up and store in the car but works well when needed.
Also worth noting that I try to use the largest shackle I can in the eye to save the rubber on the inside of the eye, but it's definitely wearing there. Also noticed last time i used it that thr outer rubber is cut in 1 spot. I will see if I can use some rubber tape to fix it. Bit of mud got into the fibres so i"ll see how long it lasts now.

UNLUCKY wrote:to answer your question, the only difference would be coin saved, both straps perform the same when not in use.

Good point.

UNLUCKY wrote:

-Scott- wrote:
How would a tow2go strap have made any difference to me? How would it perform better?

taken from 4wda
Words by Ramsay Beacham The Tow2Go strap range, which is exclusive to SuperCheap Auto stores, is excellent value for money. In fact, the 8000kg Tow2Go snatchy took out top honours in the 4WD Monthly snatch-strap testing. http://www.4wdmonthly.com.au/reviews/ti ... basics.php

A SuperCheap advertortial from 4wd Monthtly? That's nice.

UNLUCKY wrote:cant find any newer test results on the web.

old test results, after this arb improved their straps.
http://www.lizardlegs.com.au/blackrat/n ... 0Strap.pdf

So - ARB have improved their straps since this test was performed, but the Tow2Go will still outperform (everytime). How do you know this?

I still don't see how the Tow2Go strap would've made any difference to me. Yes, when the day comes that my ARB strap breaks, I could argue that the Tow2Go strap may have still been good 2Go.

However, I did notice something else in the test results. The ARB straps had some of the highest elongation figures.

So what?

Think about how we use a snatch strap. We hook the two vehicles together, and the non-stuck vehicle drives off. What's the maximum force in the recovery?

We don't know.

We do know that to break either of the ARB or Tow2Go straps, the recovery force has exceeded the rating of any shackle that may be in use.

The maximum force generated in the snatch is determined by change in momentum divided by time. The rate of deceleration of the non-stuck vehicle.

A strap with more stretch will create slower deceleration, so less force. Arguably, the (old, failed, no-longer made) ARB strap is less likely to reach its breaking strain than some of the recommended straps.

The "Runner Up" BushRanger strap, has 15% stretch. ARB's fail strap had 21% stretch, or (in comparative terms) 40% more stretch than the BushRanger.

Without doing any complex maths (because these days, I probably couldn't ) I'll argue that the BushRanger could generate 40% more force in an equivalent snatch situation. It's breaking capacity was 28% higher.

Which is more likely to break? Under the wrong circumstances, the Bushranger could break before ARB's fail strap.

Lies, damned lies & statistics...

Scott, you have a very valid point, I had not looked at it that way before, but you are starting to sound like an ARB whore, who gets a commission from every strap sold
Peter.

droopypete wrote:Scott, you have a very valid point, I had not looked at it that way before, but you are starting to sound like an ARB whore, who gets a commission from every strap sold
Peter.

Well, not yet. But I'm working on it.

-Scott- wrote:

We do know that to break either of the ARB or Tow2Go straps, the recovery force has exceeded the rating of any shackle that may be in use.

yes this would be true. But it's worth mentioning that although your shackles and towbar may only be rated at 3.5t they should still be stronger than an 8000kg snath strap which is un-rated when you include safety factors.

If an 8000kg snatch strap were rated, it would prob be around 2t swl.

mike_nofx wrote:

-Scott- wrote:

We do know that to break either of the ARB or Tow2Go straps, the recovery force has exceeded the rating of any shackle that may be in use.

yes this would be true. But it's worth mentioning that although your shackles and towbar may only be rated at 3.5t they should still be stronger than an 8000kg snath strap which is un-rated when you include safety factors.

If an 8000kg snatch strap were rated, it would prob be around 2t swl.

Yes.

I was attempting to point out that, even the crappy straps which break below their "rating" are still breaking above the rating of the shackles most 4wders carry in their recovery kit.

OMG! The crappy old ARB strap which ARB don't sell any more broke at twice the rating of my shackles.

I wonder how much force a 4.7T shackle would take to break?

A whole sheitload

mike_nofx wrote:I wonder how much force a 4.7T shackle would take to break?

WGAF? The whole concept of a "SWL" rating is that it SHOULD NOT be exceeded. You carry 4.7T shackles? Congratulations. Most of us bought 3.2T shackles - I guess you pwn us all.

Some people appear to be worried that one snatch strap (no longer made or sold by that manufacturer) broke at some force in excess of the SWL rating of the shackles that most of us carry.

According to the theory underpinning this 'net brawl, if a brand new (but no longer sold) ARB snatch strap fails during a recovery then that recovery has involved a force greater than 6.8T.

4wd vendors supply "recovery kits" including shackles rated (typically) at 3.2T. If anybody is seriously upset that ARB sold a strap which broke at 6.8T then why aren't they upset that recovery kits are sold with shackles which are not supposed to be subjected to more than 3.2T?

What force to you think is really being generated while snatching?

Now sure why you think people are upset? I'm certainly not.

I have a 4.7t shackle in my recovery hitch, I'm sure most people with recovery hitches would too.

I think it's a good idea to have shackles, and for that matter, anything steel to have a higher breaking point than a snatch strap. Hence my question on shackle breaking point.

Would you prefer your lightweight snatch strap to self destruct during a recovery or a bow shackle, towbar, hitch pin?

easy solution to this is to just not use shackles and fit proper recovery hooks to your vehicle.

Yom wrote:easy solution to this is to just not use shackles and fit proper recovery hooks to your vehicle.

because hooks can't break? Or bend?

I have heard of more problems with hooks than shackles.

Also, are hooks actually rated, with a swl? Or sold like snatch straps with breaking point?

mike_nofx wrote:

Yom wrote:easy solution to this is to just not use shackles and fit proper recovery hooks to your vehicle.

because hooks can't break? Or bend?

I have heard of more problems with hooks than shackles.

Also, are hooks actually rated, with a swl? Or sold like snatch straps with breaking point?

The current argument is (roughly) along the lines that a shackle might be being overloaded in a snatch recovery isn't it?

Of course a hook could break or bend. Anything can fail if you push it pasts its specified limits or it has a faulty build.

The way I see it:

If you don't like shackles, use a hook.

If you don't like hooks, use a shackle.

Frankly what concerns me more (and something so few people seem to consider) is how the recovery device is attached to the vehicle. I truely wonder how many recovery points, whether it be hooks or tongues, are attached using a) proper hardware and b) in such a fashion that they won't tear through whatever part of the vehicle they're bolted to.

Real world example. Sometimes not even standard recovery points are done properly. Take Patrols. Some have these nice looking hooks which are welded to a relatively thin steel plate with the edges curved with 3 bolts in a triangle fashion. 1) they rely on the weld of the hook to the plate (and we know nissan aren't always very good with their welds) and 2) they bolt to the inside of the chassis which is pretty thin stuff. I never really had any big recoveries when I had my GQ but it had one of these hooks and by the time I was done with the vehicle the plate which the hook was welded to was bent quite badly and the chassis rail inside skin had actually twisted slightly from the forced placed upon it. Have only heard folk stories of this particular patrol setup failing, but surely enough flexing of these materials and the metal will fatigue(or is it work harden?) to the point of failure.

just to let everybody no, that a rated bow or dee schackles with a W.L.L. stamp and should have the grade on it, has all so got a safety factor of 6 times what is stamp on it before it breaks or deforms but i don't recermend to try it. so a 3.25 W.L.L. schackle will break, destroy, deform at around 19.5 tonne, 4.75 W.L.L. will break,destroy,deform around 28.5 tonne, this is why snatch straps break before good quaintly schackes, very important to have good ANCHOR POINTS and recovery gear. it is better to use a bow schacke than a dee schacke as it can spread the load force more even over and around the inside of shackle.

8000kg Snatch straps WILL break before the 3.2 Bow shackle.

Bazzle

i think rule of thumb on swl rating on shackels and chains was something like 1/3

so if its rated swl was 3.2t its fail point might be 9.6t, i could be wrong, i just have a feeling that was how my boss had explained it to me

REDNUT wrote:i think rule of thumb on swl rating on shackels and chains was something like 1/3

so if its rated swl was 3.2t its fail point might be 9.6t, i could be wrong, i just have a feeling that was how my boss had explained it to me

by my riggers book it says a safety factor of 6, your boss is still leaving alot for human error. the safety factor is built in for human error.i have seen the shackle bolt undo while snatshing is been done and have never found it again, it was painted red on a mud pan.

old fella wrote:

REDNUT wrote:i think rule of thumb on swl rating on shackels and chains was something like 1/3

so if its rated swl was 3.2t its fail point might be 9.6t, i could be wrong, i just have a feeling that was how my boss had explained it to me

by my riggers book it says a safety factor of 6, your boss is still leaving alot for human error. the safety factor is built in for human error.i have seen the shackle bolt undo while snatshing is been done and have never found it again, it was painted red on a mud pan.

SWL is there for a reason. If you exceed it (at work), and something fails, you may find yourself in court.