Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Cost you more outright, but cheaper in the long run, to buy a cruiser with the factory 1HD motor...

SCANAS wrote:Cost you more outright, but cheaper in the long run, to buy a cruiser with the factory 1HD motor...

very true
but will be significantly down on power over the 100 series powered version

thrashlux wrote:

Swag_Man wrote:may want to add a lotto win in there as well

i may hi-jack this thread as i am planning a similar build in the future... so sorry in advance

back to the weak r150 gear box, can you bolt a 80 box strait up to replace it, these have their own inherent problems but are also much easier to get hold of..

and over the years lots of people have turbo'd the 1hz so would it not be safe to assume there may be a way to do it. That could work i mean there will be issues but yeah.. i am by no means a mechanic but just thought its a block that has been around a while. and getting hold of a 79 with one is much easier to.. i am all for the engine and gear box swop but i know from experience that it is never really that easy.. even if it just 'bolts' in...

cheers
and sorry for the hi-jack

there are actualy 3 different length 80 series man boxes mainly due to transfer diferences
they are
factory part time = 79 series
full time
full time viscous
so not all 80 series box will fit without mods and the part timer is not super common
but they dont really have many problems

the hz turbo debate will last for eternity while there are people that have had limited experience with any that have done many kms with a load on one first hand
there are more seeing the light as time goes on but other wise i would not do it unless its a weekend warior

i have done heaps of these conversions and they ARE a bolt in and they ARE easy
as long as you get all the stuff you need b4 you start it can be done in a few days

yeah i'm sure its easy i just droped the 5l in my 2.4 surf was told that was easy and in a way it was (Good learning experience) just getting the ecu working was a pain.. anyway that a whole new topic

i may revise this topic in a month or 2 when i start my build.. The original plan was to pick up 2 flogged 79 utes and re-build them ground up as i will keep mr surf as a daily until done. but if i do this then i can hopefully pick up a killed 100 series for the goodies and hunt down a box from somewhere.. what k's would be worth looking at on a box and engine? good/bad

now to call the DPI and find out if i need an expensive piece of paper or not.

once again sorry for the hijack but thanks for all the help..

so the 100 series turbo diesel engine is the best pick for a 79. direct injection and all that. but what about a 75 series??? as a 100 series engine wouldn't be a bolt in mod for them would they??? i know a 12ht is, and i like the thought of no electronics. but i could be persuaded to put an electronically controlled engine in my 75, if the fuel economy and towing power is going to be awesome. but what would you bee looking at price wise to get a 100 series engine into a 75??? assuming all work is done myself


sorry for the hijack too

Wambat wrote:so the 100 series turbo diesel engine is the best pick for a 79. direct injection and all that. but what about a 75 series??? as a 100 series engine wouldn't be a bolt in mod for them would they??? i know a 12ht is, and i like the thought of no electronics. but i could be persuaded to put an electronically controlled engine in my 75, if the fuel economy and towing power is going to be awesome. but what would you bee looking at price wise to get a 100 series engine into a 75??? assuming all work is done myself


sorry for the hijack too

so i am guessing yours is a pre 1990 75
the 12ht is a great motor nice and torquey great on fuel
it will bolt straight in if you have a 2h

it is not as powerful or fuel efficient as a 1hdfte but will cost half the amount but will have about 75% of the power and torque
you can find these for around 5 -6 k
a 1HDFTE is normally 8.5-10 then u need a box to take the power and torque as your old one will not last
and you will need some new mounts as well
if yours is a 4.5 petrol 75 then its almost bolt in as they have the right box and mounts

if anyone needs them i make these and it does make the job "EASY"its a stand alone loom for 100 series donks

bonus is it has cruise control as well

yeah mine is an 89 75. i have the 2h, and i used to own a 12ht powered 60 series, so i know what it feels like to drive one, i was planing on sourcing a 12ht for the 75, but got to thinking when reading the other info for the 79

if fitting the 100 series engine and 80s box. it is like the swop i did on the surf you make money off your old donk and parts from the donner car.... does take a while though...

time to go talk to my friend who has some space in his back yard i think

I rang up Brisbane Motor Imports and he said to leave the 1HD-FTE alone as it requires massive amounts of transplants etc from 100 series to the 79 series. He recommended taking the 1HD-FT (mechanic fuel pump) from the 80 series and put that in the 79 series as it is a complete bolt up with no drama's (for an expert like them). With the difference between the 1HD-FTE and 1HD-FT its only 2-3kw and around 10ft/lbs so no real loss there but added advantage of less electronics and CHEAPER!! Also i spoke with longfields and they said 30 spline "super kit" is the way to go and it will cost around USD$1000 to have it at your door. Looked on ebay US and they have ARB Air Lockers for Landcruisers 30 spline for $799 with worldwide postage so you save more money there.

Moonshine wrote:I rang up Brisbane Motor Imports and he said to leave the 1HD-FTE alone as it requires massive amounts of transplants etc from 100 series to the 79 series. He recommended taking the 1HD-FT (mechanic fuel pump) from the 80 series and put that in the 79 series as it is a complete bolt up with no drama's (for an expert like them). With the difference between the 1HD-FTE and 1HD-FT its only 2-3kw and around 10ft/lbs so no real loss there

well i am sorry but he is wrong
1HD ft has about 120 ish kw ute 1HDfte has about 122kw and as i have already said the ute fte is not a touch on the 100 series fte with 180 kw potential
the ute fte only has 3 kw more than the ft but its not just that..... its the way the torque is applied the torque in the fte is available almost 1000 rpm earlier
and the 100 series is ealier again with even more
what you actually have to do is drive the cars ie a 80 series ft and then a heavier 100 series fte after that there will be no doubt
and then there is the fuel economy

ask him how many 100 series fte conversions he has actually done ( iam up to about 5)
its no harder to fit at all its just the wiring that is the difference and as i have said that is fully sorted
the question you sould have asked is how many 100 series conversions he had for sale? his answer would have been NONE
then ok look he has a ft for sale cool he can sell you that and make some cash
you need to read between the lines

ok np mate, he quoted 11k for a 1HD-FTE and yeah im like wateva mate. but thrashlux expect a lot of PM's when i start doing this lol or is it as simple as pulling the engine, ecu and other computers and wiring harness's out and dropping them in the 79 series?

Moonshine wrote:ok np mate, he quoted 11k for a 1HD-FTE and yeah im like wateva mate. but thrashlux expect a lot of PM's when i start doing this lol or is it as simple as pulling the engine, ecu and other computers and wiring harness's out and dropping them in the 79 series?

the engine will simply bolt in with the 1hz sump and engine mounts dont forget to get a new gear box as well
pull all the wiring out computers etc from the 100
i then chop the crap out of it send it back about 20th of the wiring like in the pic and you plug it back on to the motor hook up a few wires and you are away
you will need a new exhaust
may as well put a nice intercooler
and will need bigger fuel lines as well

well might just send u my loom and u send me one of those looms pictured above and then ill wire it all up lol also some of the 79 series come with 1HD-FT, can u put the electronic pump on them?

Moonshine wrote:well might just send u my loom and u send me one of those looms pictured above and then ill wire it all up lol also some of the 79 series come with 1HD-FT, can u put the electronic pump on them?

No they dont, well not in Australia. and yes you could put the pump on one if you realy wanted to (not a quick bolt on swap) but no you wouldnt

Moonshine wrote:well might just send u my loom and u send me one of those looms pictured above and then ill wire it all up lol also some of the 79 series come with 1HD-FT,E can u put the electronic pump on them?

yeah that loom pictured is one i have made from a 100 series loom
you cannot use the std 79 series loom that came in a 79 with 1hdfte the wiring needs modifying to run the 100 series computer as the 100 series need security input (also in the loom pictured)

badger wrote:

Moonshine wrote:well might just send u my loom and u send me one of those looms pictured above and then ill wire it all up lol also some of the 79 series come with 1HD-FT, can u put the electronic pump on them?

No they dont, well not in Australia. and yes you could put the pump on one if you realy wanted to (not a quick bolt on swap) but no you wouldnt

moonshine you have to understand the extra power is gained from the electronics so if you take it off so is the power
it would be like putting a carbie on an ls1

Moonshine wrote:ok np mate, he quoted 11k for a 1HD-FTE and yeah im like wateva mate

yeah i bet he just had the engine
not everything he needs to get it running ie engine ecu ,imobaliser, key, key barrel,loom ,edu
and all that stuff probably confuses the hell out of him
so it must make it too hard to do
if you buy a complete package from a wrecker thats what you get and you should be able to get it for less than that for ALL of it

what im looking at doing is buying the complete car that has been written off in someway that the engine is still fine, then finding out what i need and pull that out and drop it into the 79 series. u said i would need the 100 series gearbox and t/case.....wont the 79 series (h150) handle it?

Moonshine wrote:what im looking at doing is buying the complete car that has been written off in someway that the engine is still fine, then finding out what i need and pull that out and drop it into the 79 series. u said i would need the 100 series gearbox and t/case.....wont the 79 series (h150) handle it?

The 79 series will only have the H150F if it is factory turbo diesel, or a petrol, if it is a NA 1HZ then it will have the R151F.

Moonshine wrote:what im looking at doing is buying the complete car that has been written off in someway that the engine is still fine, then finding out what i need and pull that out and drop it into the 79 series. u said i would need the 100 series gearbox and t/case.....wont the 79 series (h150) handle it?

im not sure where u are buddy but you can grab ex mine 79 utes pre 2000 79 utes here in wa fairly cheap... now yes they have been thrashed ( i work up there from time to time) but if you do the build right then you are replacing all the broken bits so it doesn't matter.. so then yeah you just need a riden off 100 not to hard to come by and away you go... only prob would be finding a box and making sure it is the right one... no body here seems to know what you are after weather u say 80-100-79 or just give them a part number...
from the calls i did yesterday looks like 9 k for both car but should be able to see some of the 100 for parts...

thrashlux if i go down this rout would u be able to provide a wireing diagram (for a fee) i just like to try stuff myself then ask someone else for help when i balls it up...

cheers

Swag_Man wrote:
thrashlux if i go down this rout would u be able to provide a wireing diagram (for a fee) i just like to try stuff myself then ask someone else for help when i balls it up...

cheers

the question is and this is what i say to people contemplating this is have you done many looms b4 because this is not a good one to start on.
i started doing looms for toyota's in about 1997 mainly on ricers i have probably done close to 200 since then on everything from a mini with starlet turbo engine thru to ford gt40's,skylines 20 valve corolas, shelby cobras and hiluxes
its not just a matter of hooking up a few wires but you actually have to build your own power up system including a small fuse box and put some relays in etc.
on top of that there is the immobilizer and all the other interconnects that are inside the 100 series loom that i re route to new locations to simplify things to make it all work.
there is no real wiring diagram for this i just make it up as i go depending on what the customer wants
all i use is a photo copy out of the toyota diagrams as a base then modify to suit application
the problem is once some one has had a go and stuffed it up a little it can be very hard to work out where some of the stuff went

i have done this before and it has taken nearly double the time to buz it all out and sort it out and of course then i have to charge more for my time
for a basic 100 series loom build i charge about $400-450 excluding freight and parts parts are normally less than $30 if you supply a complete loom

so its up to you
but if you do stuff it up you have the chance of damaging your components as well
then get the loom fixed which will cost more than if you had not touched it

i also test run all my looms on my truck before i ship them that way i know they will fire first time

this is me in the middle of one

thrashlux wrote:

Swag_Man wrote:
thrashlux if i go down this rout would u be able to provide a wireing diagram (for a fee) i just like to try stuff myself then ask someone else for help when i balls it up...

cheers

the question is and this is what i say to people contemplating this is have you done many looms b4 because this is not a good one to start on.
i started doing looms for toyota's in about 1997 mainly on ricers i have probably done close to 200 since then on everything from a mini with starlet turbo engine thru to ford gt40's,skylines 20 valve corolas, shelby cobras and hiluxes
its not just a matter of hooking up a few wires but you actually have to build your own power up system including a small fuse box and put some relays in etc.
on top of that there is the immobilizer and all the other interconnects that are inside the 100 series loom that i re route to new locations to simplify things to make it all work.
there is no real wiring diagram for this i just make it up as i go depending on what the customer wants
all i use is a photo copy out of the toyota diagrams as a base then modify to suit application
the problem is once some one has had a go and stuffed it up a little it can be very hard to work out where some of the stuff went

i have done this before and it has taken nearly double the time to buz it all out and sort it out and of course then i have to charge more for my time
for a basic 100 series loom build i charge about $400-450 excluding freight and parts parts are normally less than $30 if you supply a complete loom

so its up to you
but if you do stuff it up you have the chance of damaging your components as well
then get the loom fixed which will cost more than if you had not touched it

i also test run all my looms on my truck before i ship them that way i know they will fire first time

this is me in the middle of one

how much would u charge if i sent you the original wiring loom from the 100 series?

also swag_man im over the eastern states in VIC atm but posting to Nth QLD or NT next year. Also i saw QRail are selling there 79 series and they alreayd have the 1HD-FTE in them with 350,000km on the clock....whats your thoughts?

Moonshine wrote:

thrashlux wrote:

Swag_Man wrote:
thrashlux if i go down this rout would u be able to provide a wireing diagram (for a fee) i just like to try stuff myself then ask someone else for help when i balls it up...

cheers

the question is and this is what i say to people contemplating this is have you done many looms b4 because this is not a good one to start on.
i started doing looms for toyota's in about 1997 mainly on ricers i have probably done close to 200 since then on everything from a mini with starlet turbo engine thru to ford gt40's,skylines 20 valve corolas, shelby cobras and hiluxes
its not just a matter of hooking up a few wires but you actually have to build your own power up system including a small fuse box and put some relays in etc.
on top of that there is the immobilizer and all the other interconnects that are inside the 100 series loom that i re route to new locations to simplify things to make it all work.
there is no real wiring diagram for this i just make it up as i go depending on what the customer wants
all i use is a photo copy out of the toyota diagrams as a base then modify to suit application
the problem is once some one has had a go and stuffed it up a little it can be very hard to work out where some of the stuff went

i have done this before and it has taken nearly double the time to buz it all out and sort it out and of course then i have to charge more for my time
for a basic 100 series loom build i charge about $400-450 excluding freight and parts parts are normally less than $30 if you supply a complete loom

so its up to you
but if you do stuff it up you have the chance of damaging your components as well
then get the loom fixed which will cost more than if you had not touched it

i also test run all my looms on my truck before i ship them that way i know they will fire first time

this is me in the middle of one

how much would u charge if i sent you the original wiring loom from the 100 series?

also swag_man im over the eastern states in VIC atm but posting to Nth QLD or NT next year. Also i saw QRail are selling there 79 series and they alreayd have the 1HD-FTE in them with 350,000km on the clock....whats your thoughts?

"for a basic 100 series loom build i charge about $400-450 excluding freight and parts parts are normally less than $30" if you supply a complete loom"

thrashlux wrote:they have been fitted b4 but....
The 4bt is more realistic to fit they are really big engines
even so the 4bt puts out about 95 kw revs out to a staggering 2500 rpm probably about 14ltrs per 100
the 6bt about 135kw also revs out to a staggering 2500 rpm probably about 15 or 16 ltrs per 100
1hz (non turbo )96 kw goes to about 4000 rpm on a good day proabaly about 12 or 13 ltrs per hundred
1hdfte stk 100 series 151kw revs to about about 4300 rpm ,about 11-12 ltrs per hundred

what it boils down to is you will be able to to do around 100kph in either of the b series engines but never overtake cause they wont rev high enough you will be lucky to crack 110 kph
you could tow a train with em because they have heaps of torque but they are not very powerful your truck wont go fast

Just to expand on these a bit.
The Cummins engines (4Bt and 6BT) can be easily increased to 3,200rpm rev-limit just by swapping a governor spring. People out there are running them to 5k rpm, but that's just silly.
The Isuzu's and cummins are direct injection, hence more fuel efficient than the indirect injection 1HZ and chev V8 diesels (6.2 or 6.5).

Fewer cylinders makes the engines more efficient, it's as simple as less internal friction. However 6 cylinders are smoother than 4's.
The 1HD-FTE is IMO the best diesel toyota has made and pretty hard to go past as a transplant. Plenty of power upgrades too.
However I doubt it's anywhere near as strong as the Cummins B series or Isuzu B series. The Isuzu's have taken more than 60psi on standard internals and head gaskets. Plenty of people in the US have tortured the B series cummins, all weaknesses and most upgrades are well established.

KiwiBacon wrote:

thrashlux wrote:they have been fitted b4 but....
The 4bt is more realistic to fit they are really big engines
even so the 4bt puts out about 95 kw revs out to a staggering 2500 rpm probably about 14ltrs per 100
the 6bt about 135kw also revs out to a staggering 2500 rpm probably about 15 or 16 ltrs per 100
1hz (non turbo )96 kw goes to about 4000 rpm on a good day proabaly about 12 or 13 ltrs per hundred
1hdfte stk 100 series 151kw revs to about about 4300 rpm ,about 11-12 ltrs per hundred

what it boils down to is you will be able to to do around 100kph in either of the b series engines but never overtake cause they wont rev high enough you will be lucky to crack 110 kph
you could tow a train with em because they have heaps of torque but they are not very powerful your truck wont go fast

Just to expand on these a bit.
The Cummins engines (4Bt and 6BT) can be easily increased to 3,200rpm rev-limit just by swapping a governor spring. People out there are running them to 5k rpm, but that's just silly.
The Isuzu's and cummins are direct injection, hence more fuel efficient than the indirect injection 1HZ and chev V8 diesels (6.2 or 6.5).

Fewer cylinders makes the engines more efficient, it's as simple as less internal friction. However 6 cylinders are smoother than 4's.
The 1HD-FTE is IMO the best diesel toyota has made and pretty hard to go past as a transplant. Plenty of power upgrades too.
However I doubt it's anywhere near as strong as the Cummins B series or Isuzu B series. The Isuzu's have taken more than 60psi on standard internals and head gaskets. Plenty of people in the US have tortured the B series cummins, all weaknesses and most upgrades are well established.

I saw on the cummins website they used the old mechanical 6bt for truck racing lol also i wouldnt go near isuzi for the simple fact i work on them all the time (army rovers) and hate them for that reason lol

my thoughts.... amm i need to see the car to give those.. moonshin really its not just the engine its the who car and that is alot of k's... but then it could be good or bad you just don't know.

i am one of these people to likes to try doing things myself then when its stuffed fix it.. yeah i get somethings like the loom may be to hard but yeah... i also like to build stuff to changing engines, box's and stuff isn't to much of a worry so long as it is legal.. and thats why i'm looking at old mine car to start with at least that way i can only make it better but thats just me..

will have to look into the loom if and when i come to that 'thrashlux' mainly due to my ability to remove it from the donner car intact... but will get to that later..

Swag_Man wrote:

will have to look into the loom if and when i come to that 'thrashlux' mainly due to my ability to remove it from the donner car intact... but will get to that later..

no worries mate let me know how you go keep in touch
just pm me if you need any advice

cheers