Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Anyone who thinks a 3.0 4 cylinder engine is appropriate for a 2.5 tonne 4wd needs their head read. Its not in there because it was the right engine for the job...it's just because Nissan are disorganised morons...

chunks wrote:Anyone who thinks a 3.0 4 cylinder engine is appropriate for a 2.5 tonne 4wd needs their head read. Its not in there because it was the right engine for the job...it's just because Nissan are disorganised morons...

a 3.0L 4cyl is perfectly appropriate for such a large and heavy vehicle if it is configured appropriately - ie: proper gear ratios and a decent automatic. With a manual gearbox? Not so much. Why do the europeans and yanks no longer really offer manual transmissions with their turbo diesels??? because they're rubbish for drive-ability with the smaller motors!

if the ZD30 wasn't prone to popping this thread would not exist. It'd be praised for being cheap to buy, cheap to run, great to drive for what it is and for being reliable.

It just so happens Nissan failed pretty badly at it hence why it has such a bad reputation.

chunks wrote:Anyone who thinks a 3.0 4 cylinder engine is appropriate for a 2.5 tonne 4wd needs their head read. Its not in there because it was the right engine for the job...it's just because Nissan are disorganised morons...

Yes well I agree with you 100%. There are some weird people in the world. Maybe they are from the ricer brigade so that would be why they love there 4cyl torque less time bombs.

As far as which one boosts up the most first, boosting 10psi by 2000rpm my turbo dinosaur easily boosts 16 psi by 2000rpm 18 total & that's with a mild tune.

my mates zd30 has all the anti grenade stuff done plus boost controller etc. he runs 32's & I 35's & I can still pull away from him in every gear, It's not even a contest. All I got is a 360,000 klm dinosaur with turbo & 3" exh.

One thing I would love to see is a zd30 with no turbo pull around a patrol like the td42 dose.

blowngq wrote: I can still pull away from him in every gear, It's not even a contest. Until we stop at the servo to fill up.

blowngq wrote:

chunks wrote:Anyone who thinks a 3.0 4 cylinder engine is appropriate for a 2.5 tonne 4wd needs their head read. Its not in there because it was the right engine for the job...it's just because Nissan are disorganised morons...

Yes well I agree with you 100%. There are some weird people in the world. Maybe they are from the ricer brigade so that would be why they love there 4cyl torque less time bombs.

As far as which one boosts up the most first, boosting 10psi by 2000rpm my turbo dinosaur easily boosts 16 psi by 2000rpm 18 total & that's with a mild tune.

my mates zd30 has all the anti grenade stuff done plus boost controller etc. he runs 32's & I 35's & I can still pull away from him in every gear, It's not even a contest. All I got is a 360,000 klm dinosaur with turbo & 3" exh.

One thing I would love to see is a zd30 with no turbo pull around a patrol like the td42 dose.

Thats nice. But at the end of the day the TD42 didnt meet emissions in the bronze age let alone in 2011. Also it was a big heavy POS. There is no way we could keep on putting so much wasted metal into an engine.
Anyone who thinks a 3.0lt engine cant push 2.5t around is wrong. Nissan may have done it poorly. But it can be done and done quite well. Land Rover has been doing it since the early 90's with an 2.5lt engine for a 2.5t car. Then they did it even better with a 5cyclinder 2.5lt. And these things are perfectly matched to an auto.

There is even proof off zd30's with 500,000km on the clock on there first engine. I even know of a series 2 GU with 460,000 and only on 2nd set of injectors and I bet it has done more off-road work than most on here. I also know of many TD42's that are dead way before 200,000km.

Also comparing you and your mates car. You have a modifed engine for more performance. And he has just blocked of the egr and put a proper boost controller in to prevent it spiking. Of course yours will be faster.

So how about we just leave the debate to personal preference and budget.
On a side note I drove a LC with the 4.5lt V8 the other day. And I was very disappointed.

love_mud wrote:

blowngq wrote: I can still pull away from him in every gear, It's not even a contest. Until we stop at the servo to fill up.

650 kays to 80-85ltrs around town on 35's I don't think is to bad. Haven't been on a trip since turboed & 35's fitted but expecting 700-750 kays out of the 85 ltrs.

cheers.

turps wrote:Anyone who thinks a 3.0lt engine cant push 2.5t around is wrong. Nissan may have done it poorly. But it can be done and done quite well. Land Rover has been doing it since the early 90's with an 2.5lt engine for a 2.5t car. Then they did it even better with a 5cyclinder 2.5lt. And these things are perfectly matched to an auto.

The only thing Landrover has done quite well is to ensure its vehicles are plagued by constant oil leaks and electrical problems.

A small turbo diesel 4 cylinder is capable of moving a heavy vehicle, the problem is they have to be so highly strung compared to a larger lazier engine. Yes they have more technology and are far more refined, but the reliability just isn't the same. Of course the TD42 had to go it was just too low tech for this day and age, but Nissan should have developed a more suitable engine to replace it, not the turd of a motor that is the ZD30.

I would like to know if there is a zd30 that will crawl out in the bush like a TD42. The ones I have experiance with are all still dead under that 1800rpm mark, & thats with tyre sizes no bigger than 32's. Makes for interesting rock crawling work & smelly clutch's.

As far as 460,000 kays done by a zd30 thats not even half the life of what I've seen on td42. Try 1.2 million & still going, only had a pump rebuild & a few clutchs.

Think this debate will go on for ever. In the end the market reflects what is & isn't cr@p. Look at the resale values on each the proof is in the pudding.

all in all its pretty stupid there is a reason why trucks use big engines TORQUE after all thats what we want from a diesel.. these new engines are useless highly under powered and generally chew the fuel.. both out 2010 patrol and navara are well over the 15l/100 mark around town and country.. i get that from my na 4.2 on 35's around town..

the 3l patrol is as good as useless for towing the boat same as the navara..

these little engine can out out torque but its all way too high in the rev range and ONLY on boost... there useless...

as for engine life it all depend on how there treated.. services all that... at the end of the day renault own nissan soon we will probably see a 2l diesel in them.. bacause these cars are designed else where not for aust conditions.. they put tow ratings on them that are rated to the chassis they only care about dry weight with how it moved..

same as a manual d40 navara.. mine struggled towing a 1 ton trailer let alone the boat.. i never bothered...

Skegbudley wrote:

RIZZO wrote:Far out this thread gets better and better...

Mate what are you saying here, that a modded 3lt would have more power than a modded 4.2??? If yes I would really love to see this... of course the little 3l donk will boost up quicker, and thank god they do as they have 1nm of torque until they start producing power. Cant compare the 2 cause there is simply no comparrasin... yes the new 3l are awesome on fuel etc etc but a modded 3l will not produce the same torque /power as a modded 4.2 ...

I've never said that.

How much power either engine makes comes down to how much work is done to it. A stock ZD30 makes more power than a 4.2. so it is already infront. It is very easy to make a lot more power with minor mods on a ZD30. Not so easy on a 4.2. (Turning up the fuel in a 4.2 so you can't see behind you because of the black smoke does not count. )
Sure there are more modified 4.2's out there. This is because they have been out for longer. People have been building ZD30's with 150 - 200hp for a while now and the list is growing. People are even starting to mod the common rail engine with very pleasing results.
http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/nissan-p ... ods-61768/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
He was making 90 rwhp on 35s prior to mods. Now its producing 185hp and still has a new exchaust and more tuning to come.

As for the ZD30 boosting up quicker. Its got nothing to do with the engine. It's the VNT turbo. We actually slow down the spool rate these days with a incab needle valve to add to the longevity.

I'm not opposed to either engine. Hell I even taught my wife to drive in a shorty Mav with a non turbo 4.2. (when it was new. )It was slow but got us most places we wanted to go.

wow people have been building zd30 with 150-200hp, oh thats unreal, f$%k me your a spanner mate, typical bloke that wouldnt know power if you seen it, ive seen numerous modified 4.2td standard donks with 200 kw at the wheels, i'l explain this is, very close if not over 300hp at the wheels, let me guess your zd30 has more of course, and thats after a detune hey,
and come to think of it the only patrols i see blowing smoke is every 3lt of the older model gus ,
and also what this crap your on about with common rail diesels , all manufactures are havin great problems with these common rail donks due to the amount of pressure injectors etc are running, so mate maybe some people might agree with what your saying but i personally think you need to get ya hand of it, all the best

Have to agree that a 3.0L diesel is to small for a Patrol. Tell my old man that about his '04 Rodeo 3.0L TDI auto all the time, biggest slug. I'd give him a run for his money in my TD42 NA with 35s on, or would have if it didn't just blow up with 105,000kms on it!

You can wack an "off the shelf" Safari turbo intercooler on a GQ TD42 NA and go from 85kw, 264nm to 140kw, 430nm. You can't complain with that, or at least I couldn't with a NA haha.

Maybe Nissan should have made the 3.0L a 4.8L 6 to go along side the TB48: a "TD48".

ZD30 (130kw, 350nm)
TB48 (180kw, 400nm)

The TB48 is 1.6 times bigger then the ZD30. So...
130kw x 1.6 = 208kw
350nm x 1.6 = 560nm

"TD48" (208kw, 560nm)
That would be nice power out of the factory.

351ciofgrunt wrote:Just kidding...

You had to be. MF would never put an IDI short stroke motor in a tractor.

It appears nissan are using Hino motors in their light trucks now. They'd be a good patrol motor.
MBK180 nissan uses a J05D-TG motor:
http://www.udtrucks.com.au/uploads/page ... g10_LR.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So does this Hino.
http://www.hino.com.au/Upload/specifica ... 8_Dump.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Have you guys thought about putting toyota truck motors in your patrols?

KiwiBacon wrote:

351ciofgrunt wrote:Just kidding...

You had to be. MF would never put an IDI short stroke motor in a tractor.

It appears nissan are using Hino motors in their light trucks now. They'd be a good patrol motor.
MBK180 nissan uses a J05D-TG motor:
http://www.udtrucks.com.au/uploads/page ... g10_LR.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So does this Hino.
http://www.hino.com.au/Upload/specifica ... 8_Dump.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Have you guys thought about putting toyota truck motors in your patrols?

I was talking to a friend of the family the other day, He's got a gq with athe tb42 efi. He has a friend that just put a isuzu n/a truck motor in his gq & it apparenlty screams.

blowngq wrote:I was talking to a friend of the family the other day, He's got a gq with athe tb42 efi. He has a friend that just put a isuzu n/a truck motor in his gq & it apparenlty screams.

Landrover owners have been using Isuzu engines for the last 25 years or so. There's just one problem with the current line of 4F Isuzu truck motors, they have a rearward facing starter motor which restricts gearbox choice and protrudes into the tunnel. The previous generation 4B engines fit reasonably well in landrovers and landcruisers, I haven't heard of one being put into a patrol yet.

nissans new diesel donks are based off a renault motor apparently, that are coming out in the new model coming, meant to be pretty good so they say, the new 5.6 v8 pety should b something to look forward to

There's a lot more to a 4x4 engine than power or torque. You also need and engine that is reliable, sturdy and that will withstand abuse.

In Russia, blessed with 18% or so of the world's land mass and less than 1% of the world's paved roads, old-school mechanical injected diesels are the way to go, and the TD42 is a legendary engine.

RIZZO wrote:wow people have been building zd30 with 150-200hp, oh thats unreal, f$%k me your a spanner mate, typical bloke that wouldnt know power if you seen it, ive seen numerous modified 4.2td standard donks with 200 kw at the wheels, i'l explain this is, very close if not over 300hp at the wheels, let me guess your zd30 has more of course, and thats after a detune hey,
and come to think of it the only patrols i see blowing smoke is every 3lt of the older model gus ,
and also what this crap your on about with common rail diesels , all manufactures are havin great problems with these common rail donks due to the amount of pressure injectors etc are running, so mate maybe some people might agree with what your saying but i personally think you need to get ya hand of it, all the best

200kw at the wheels with a standard engine and no black smoke


If I felt like modifing a ZD30 for power then I could not see an issue making reasonable HP but I couldn't be faaaaarked. Mine is modded for reliabllity.
If I wanted to go fast I could get by bro to take me for a ride in his 650HP+ 9sec brumby ute or street WRX( Yes the bastard has 2 sub 10sec cars.). I am however more interested in going slow these days and will plod along happily in my Patrol powered by a ZD30.

Found out that Nissan still makes TD42 powered Patrols for sale in markets like Papua New Guinea and Haiti, also various African countries, etc..

Basically places where emissions are not real strictly regulated and reliability is real important. Like critical.

Just to batter that poor dead horsie a bit more, here is a link to the sales brochure for the Patrol pickup from Nissan's authorized dealer in Zambia:

http://www.cfaogroup.com/admin/pdf_gamm ... pickup.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and the LWB Patrol, as sold in Zambia:

http://www.cfaogroup.com/admin/pdf_gamm ... rol_01.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Note that the specs are very different than what the average frustrated Australian may be used to.

Mrowka wrote:Found out that Nissan still makes TD42 powered Patrols for sale in markets like Papua New Guinea and Haiti, also various African countries, etc..

Basically places where emissions are not real strictly regulated and reliability is real important. Like critical.

I think thats true in Latin America in general. Only the td42t doesnt seem to have made it. They even still making the Landcruiser 80 in Venezuela. Here in Jamaica, we still can get the td42 as well.

Mrowka wrote:
http://www.cfaogroup.com/admin/pdf_gamm ... pickup.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They STILL run a carby that is crazy

Noticed that myself. It makes perfect sense.

If you are going to be in the bush hundreds of kilometers from the nearest authorized Nissan service center, better make something that can (hopefully) be fixed by a bush mechanic with no factory training or access to special tools or diagnostic equipment.

It took me longer to figure out the rationale behind drum rear brakes for every model.

Mrowka wrote:Noticed that myself. It makes perfect sense.

If you are going to be in the bush hundreds of kilometers from the nearest authorized Nissan service center, better make something that can (hopefully) be fixed by a bush mechanic with no factory training or access to special tools or diagnostic equipment.

It took me longer to figure out the rationale behind drum rear brakes for every model.

Please explain then. I can't see the sense in it at all. Disk brakes are just as simple and reliable as drum if not more.

Skegbudley wrote:

Mrowka wrote:Noticed that myself. It makes perfect sense.

If you are going to be in the bush hundreds of kilometers from the nearest authorized Nissan service center, better make something that can (hopefully) be fixed by a bush mechanic with no factory training or access to special tools or diagnostic equipment.

It took me longer to figure out the rationale behind drum rear brakes for every model.

Please explain then. I can't see the sense in it at all. Disk brakes are just as simple and reliable as drum if not more.

I suspect, it is mainly to keep the price down.

I don't think drums are any cheaper to manufacture than discs, but I could be wrong.

I was told that it was so that it is easier to selectively lock the front or rear wheels when doing steep descents. Remember, goign forwards or backwards, you do not want the leading wheel to lock up.

Going forwards down a steep slippery dirt slope: put in 4L and keep your foot away from the brake pedal. Use the emergency brake instead.

Going backwards down a steep slippery dirt slope: keep in 4L and use the brake pedal - you will lock up the front disc brakes long before you lock up the rear drum brakes.

once your in 4l it would lock up all 4 wheels cause both diffs are locked together through the transfer case?

lozz

lozz_ti wrote:once your in 4l it would lock up all 4 wheels cause both diffs are locked together through the transfer case?

lozz

yes that's correct

So that threads like these can turn into a shit fight.

Diffs would be locked together, but the individual wheels are not locked to the diffs (unless you have lockers in).

Mrowka wrote:Diffs would be locked together, but the individual wheels are not locked to the diffs (unless you have lockers in).

yes but I think if you locked up one front wheel on an open diff in 4wd then the other front wheel will now have to spin twice as fast due to the diff action?