Outer Limits 4x4 Board

stockhorse wrote:With Tyres 31's are not 31 inch they are usually slightly over, 33's are not 33 inch they are usually just under (some brands a lot under), so 33's will pass without a problem if you check the brand and manufacturers specs and choose accordingly

Correct on some brands, my 33x12.5x17 were only 14mm over for that model of tyre.

Just be careful and know your facts and make sure that you have evidence (in writing) with you if you want to go down that path.

I still have not heard what is around the corner in a couple of days, time will tell.

Cheers
David

So will the Increase in tyre diameter need to be mod plated or will it be the same as the current increase where no approval is needed?

4_low wrote:So will the Increase in tyre diameter need to be mod plated or will it be the same as the current increase where no approval is needed?

Still waiting to find out.

I would say tyres alone - No

Tyres, suspension & body lift - possible and a lane change test as well. Will know more in the next couple of days.

Cheers
David

Woohoo, legally run 35's on the 40 series.



brooksy

I've heard rumors that some things that didn't need a mod plate before now will like internal engine work . Will there be an amnesty period for this sort of stuff if eerily already have it done ?

stock 4runner wrote:I've heard rumors that some things that didn't need a mod plate before now will like internal engine work . Will there be an amnesty period for this sort of stuff if eerily already have it done ?

He posted earlier that if engineering process has started it will continue under old regs.

otherwise your boned.

I'm talking stuff you never needed engineered

How the hell are they going to monitor that !!!
Sounds like BS to me. Special crank & cam grinds, .010/20/30 bores, recurving of your engine management, etc ......


brooksy

brooksy wrote:Woohoo, legally run 35's on the 40 series.



brooksy

I very much doubt.

It will all depend on the tyre placard or if older then that what size they came out with.

In saying that a 33 will hopefully legal.

Cheers
David

If a build has already started, we can use the old Codes if needed upto 30th April 2013.

Let us wait and see what is happening with the Engine Codes, hopefully all will be revealed after the 1st November.

So until then.

Cheers
David

stock 4runner wrote:I'm talking stuff you never needed engineered

Rather then say "Engineered" lets say "Approved".

Unless it is design related an Engineer is not necessarily required.

You could also find an Engineer can only sign off on the design part & not the modification.

An Approved Person can sign off on 90% of modifications codes that require Approval. The other 10% require an Engineer to approve design before the modification can be signed off.

Cheers
David

I sent my 1854 in about a week ago and heard back from DOT. Im looking at removing chassis TA mount, fabbing new and fabing new longer TA. I was told to wait untill Nov 1st, then to contact a Approver ENGINEER and go from there. It will be up to the Engineer to say yay or nay if possible to do at all and what code/s it would fall under....then of coarse they will have to ok a design and outline a procedure etc...

shame my pockets arent very deep...but fingers crossed

Factory tyre size on 40 series was 33" equivalent & proven in Qld court. The old Cruisers didn't have a tyre placard by all accounts (never checked mine actually. With the old law you could almost run a 34" tyre but very limited choice (only respectable tyre was the Irok Truxxus) So if 50mm goes ahead it should be close.


brooksy

brooksy wrote:Factory tyre size on 40 series was 33" equivalent & proven in Qld court. The old Cruisers didn't have a tyre placard by all accounts (never checked mine actually. With the old law you could almost run a 34" tyre but very limited choice (only respectable tyre was the Irok Truxxus) So if 50mm goes ahead it should be close.


brooksy

its 7.50R16 for all 40series AFAIK ???

A 7.50R16 Tyre is specified as

For Traction Tread (AT or MT tread pattern)
Diameter of 812mm
Section width of 208mm.

which means due to +15mm allowance you can legally run "some" 33" tyres on a 40series.

with +50mm rule you can go to 862mm which is just shy of 34", but again, depends what the 35" tyre actually measures.

Yep, I couldn't remember exactly as it was a fair few yrs ago, but that sounds about right.


brooksy

Here everyone have a read.

Max suspension lift is (by the way I read it) 50mm for any vehicle. No if's or but's!!!!!

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safet ... 2part1.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cheers
David

Shadow wrote:

brooksy wrote:Factory tyre size on 40 series was 33" equivalent & proven in Qld court. The old Cruisers didn't have a tyre placard by all accounts (never checked mine actually. With the old law you could almost run a 34" tyre but very limited choice (only respectable tyre was the Irok Truxxus) So if 50mm goes ahead it should be close.


brooksy

its 7.50R16 for all 40series AFAIK ???

A 7.50R16 Tyre is specified as

For Traction Tread (AT or MT tread pattern)
Diameter of 812mm
Section width of 208mm.

which means due to +15mm allowance you can legally run "some" 33" tyres on a 40series.

with +50mm rule you can go to 862mm which is just shy of 34", but again, depends what the 35" tyre actually measures.

Beg to differ the 750x16 (Original Tyre fitted to a Toyota at time of sale) by the Australian Standard is only is 786 which is the same as a 31" not a 33".

So you still cannot fit a 35" tyre.

Cheers
David

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safet ... vsil19.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More reading on vehicle lifts.

XTREME MMM wrote:

Shadow wrote:

brooksy wrote:Factory tyre size on 40 series was 33" equivalent & proven in Qld court. The old Cruisers didn't have a tyre placard by all accounts (never checked mine actually. With the old law you could almost run a 34" tyre but very limited choice (only respectable tyre was the Irok Truxxus) So if 50mm goes ahead it should be close.


brooksy

its 7.50R16 for all 40series AFAIK ???

A 7.50R16 Tyre is specified as

For Traction Tread (AT or MT tread pattern)
Diameter of 812mm
Section width of 208mm.

which means due to +15mm allowance you can legally run "some" 33" tyres on a 40series.

with +50mm rule you can go to 862mm which is just shy of 34", but again, depends what the 35" tyre actually measures.

Beg to differ the 750x16 (Original Tyre fitted to a Toyota at time of sale) by the Australian Standard is only is 786 which is the same as a 31" not a 33".

So you still cannot fit a 35" tyre.

Cheers
David

The dimension i quoted comes from the tyre and rim association of australia manual.

More interestingly

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safet ... ns1112.pdf

1. Scope
Code LS9 provides for the preparation of designs that may be approved by Registration
Authorities for use by other signatories or modifiers. The designs under Code LS9 cover the
design of vehicle lifts in excess of 50mm but not more than 125mm.
Vehicle lifts that do not exceed 75mm, and are achieved by modification of the suspension and
fitting of alternate tyres and rims only (do not include a body lift) do not require certification under
the LS9 code. Any person performing this type of modification must ensure the modified vehicle
meets all the technical requirements of the LS9 and LS10 sections of this code, however no formal
certification or lane change test is required.

so easy to get a 3" lift approved, no lane change tests etc. coooool!

The following is a summary of the designs that may be prepared under Code LS9:
• Design of modifications that combined result in the vehicle being raised by more than
50mm but less than 125mm from the original as manufactured height;
• Design of front suspension modifications using different struts or uprights;
• Design of independent rear suspension modifications using different struts, trailing
arms or uprights;
• Design of a conversion using a complete suspension assembly from a different vehicle
model;
• Design of a complete rear suspension assembly using components from different
vehicle model(s); and
• Alternative wheel and tyre specifications for vehicles with modified axles or
suspension.

so SAS swaps are now approvable???

and tyre/wheel changes (bigger?) are approvable.

Shadow wrote:

XTREME MMM wrote:

Shadow wrote:

brooksy wrote:Factory tyre size on 40 series was 33" equivalent & proven in Qld court. The old Cruisers didn't have a tyre placard by all accounts (never checked mine actually. With the old law you could almost run a 34" tyre but very limited choice (only respectable tyre was the Irok Truxxus) So if 50mm goes ahead it should be close.


brooksy

its 7.50R16 for all 40series AFAIK ???

A 7.50R16 Tyre is specified as

For Traction Tread (AT or MT tread pattern)
Diameter of 812mm
Section width of 208mm.

which means due to +15mm allowance you can legally run "some" 33" tyres on a 40series.

with +50mm rule you can go to 862mm which is just shy of 34", but again, depends what the 35" tyre actually measures.

Beg to differ the 750x16 (Original Tyre fitted to a Toyota at time of sale) by the Australian Standard is only is 786 which is the same as a 31" not a 33".

So you still cannot fit a 35" tyre.

Cheers
David

The dimension i quoted comes from the tyre and rim association of australia manual.

More interestingly

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safet ... ns1112.pdf

1. Scope
Code LS9 provides for the preparation of designs that may be approved by Registration
Authorities for use by other signatories or modifiers. The designs under Code LS9 cover the
design of vehicle lifts in excess of 50mm but not more than 125mm.
Vehicle lifts that do not exceed 75mm, and are achieved by modification of the suspension and
fitting of alternate tyres and rims only (do not include a body lift) do not require certification under
the LS9 code. Any person performing this type of modification must ensure the modified vehicle
meets all the technical requirements of the LS9 and LS10 sections of this code, however no formal
certification or lane change test is required.

so easy to get a 3" lift approved, no lane change tests etc. coooool!

The following is a summary of the designs that may be prepared under Code LS9:
• Design of modifications that combined result in the vehicle being raised by more than
50mm but less than 125mm from the original as manufactured height;
• Design of front suspension modifications using different struts or uprights;
• Design of independent rear suspension modifications using different struts, trailing
arms or uprights;
• Design of a conversion using a complete suspension assembly from a different vehicle
model;
• Design of a complete rear suspension assembly using components from different
vehicle model(s); and
• Alternative wheel and tyre specifications for vehicles with modified axles or
suspension.

so SAS swaps are now approvable???

and tyre/wheel changes (bigger?) are approvable.

It would be best if you read the complete code:-

This is what you have missed

3.2 Suspension Modifications
The available suspension travel in either direction must remain at least equivalent to two
thirds of that originally available prior to modifying the system.
The available suspension rebound following the addition of increased length coil springs and
longer travel shock absorbers must be at least equivalent to two thirds of the original
rebound travel.
The rebound must be limited by either the shock absorber maximum travel (providing the
component is designed for this type of loading), the technique used by the original
manufacturer’s design or by the addition of adequately sized straps.
At full rebound the coil springs must still be securely attached to the vehicle by not having
reached their free length.
All linkages and brake lines etc. must be adequately designed for the increased movement.
The maximum increase in vehicle height due to suspension modifications alone is limited to
50mm.

XTREME MMM wrote: It would be best if you read the complete code:-

This is what you have missed

3.2 Suspension Modifications
The available suspension travel in either direction must remain at least equivalent to two
thirds of that originally available prior to modifying the system.
The available suspension rebound following the addition of increased length coil springs and
longer travel shock absorbers must be at least equivalent to two thirds of the original
rebound travel.
The rebound must be limited by either the shock absorber maximum travel (providing the
component is designed for this type of loading), the technique used by the original
manufacturer’s design or by the addition of adequately sized straps.
At full rebound the coil springs must still be securely attached to the vehicle by not having
reached their free length.
All linkages and brake lines etc. must be adequately designed for the increased movement.
The maximum increase in vehicle height due to suspension modifications alone is limited to
50mm.

you got me D:

I dont really understand why they call it 50-125mm lift when you can only go 50mm suspension and 25mm tyres....

unless they are allowing a 50mm body lift in the 125mm.?.?

I do notice that LS10 does not have the same restriction, it has instead

Modifications that raise the vehicle body more than 50mm from the original as
manufactured height on vehicles that have had the wheel track reduced from the a
manufactured width. Modifications to these vehicles will only be considered on an
individual application basis.

Shadow wrote:

XTREME MMM wrote: It would be best if you read the complete code:-

This is what you have missed

3.2 Suspension Modifications
The available suspension travel in either direction must remain at least equivalent to two
thirds of that originally available prior to modifying the system.
The available suspension rebound following the addition of increased length coil springs and
longer travel shock absorbers must be at least equivalent to two thirds of the original
rebound travel.
The rebound must be limited by either the shock absorber maximum travel (providing the
component is designed for this type of loading), the technique used by the original
manufacturer’s design or by the addition of adequately sized straps.
At full rebound the coil springs must still be securely attached to the vehicle by not having
reached their free length.
All linkages and brake lines etc. must be adequately designed for the increased movement.
The maximum increase in vehicle height due to suspension modifications alone is limited to
50mm.

you got me D:

I dont really understand why they call it 50-125mm lift when you can only go 50mm suspension and 25mm tyres....

unless they are allowing a 50mm body lift in the 125mm.?.?

I do notice that LS10 does not have the same restriction, it has instead

Modifications that raise the vehicle body more than 50mm from the original as
manufactured height on vehicles that have had the wheel track reduced from the a
manufactured width. Modifications to these vehicles will only be considered on an
individual application basis.

Yes the 50mm body lift is included in that 125mm (Body Lift to be plated with a K3 Code)

As per the last comment, it relates to vehicles being raised and having the vehicle track reduced at the same time. This would need approval.

Cheers
David

so really nothing has changed other than +50mm tyres lol

Shadow wrote:so really nothing has changed other than +50mm tyres lol

You could be right, apart from:-
Max of 50mm in suspension.
Possible more checks and a bigger headache for me
Lane change test for over 75mm
Approval for over 75mm

More later

Cheers
David

Hi, I have spent most of today going over what is going to happen and talking to Vehicle Standards, here is the way I see it.

Tyres:- 50mm over what is on the tyre placard, so 33 look good on some of the larger vehicles.

Vehicle Height:- Maximum of 125mm. This is made up of 50mm suspension, tyres 50mm (diameter) & body blocks 50mm. (Some other States are 150mm in total)

Suspension:- No more then 50mm.

Vehicle height:- Increases over 75mm will require an LS9 (Design) & LS10 (Modification) plate fitted, this will also include a lane change test. LS9 & LS10 are Queensland only.

Body Lift:- If tyres and suspension is standard a K3 will be required.

Roll Cages:- What I can make out, you can no longer approve cages starting at the "A" Pillar. But if it has already been started before the 1st November it can still be approved up until 30th April. If I was plating I would be asking for proof of when started.

Motors:- There are now an extra 2 Codes to comply with, now have a total of 3 for the motor & one for the Turbo/Supercharger. More on this one later. But what I have been told the 4wd's can only have upto a 5.8lt fitted before approval is needed.

Cheers
David

XTREME MMM wrote:Vehicle Height:- Maximum of 125mm. This is made up of 50mm suspension, tyres 50mm (diameter) & body blocks 50mm. (Some other States are 150mm in total)

Vehicle height:- Increases over 75mm will require an LS9 (Design) & LS10 (Modification) plate fitted, this will also include a lane change test. LS9 & LS10 are Queensland only.

Cheers
David

So much for National Code of Practise?

Big props for taking the time to try to make this stuff clear too, David - even though I'm in NSW I really appreciate the effort.

What about tyre width, are fair enough 33s are legal on a cruiser/patrol, but is the 12.5 width legal? I can't find any relevant information.

SIMMO84 wrote:What about tyre width, are fair enough 33s are legal on a cruiser/patrol, but is the 12.5 width legal? I can't find any relevant information.

33 x 15 are legal if you tyre placard says 275 x 70 x 16 but not legal if it says 265 x 70 x 16.

A 33 x 12.5 x 16 is illegal.

Tyre width on a live axle vehicle is 1.5 that of the widest option on your vehicle.

Check you tyre placard first & do your homework and see if the 33 will be legal on your vehicle. It will depend on the tyre placard.

Cheers
David

XTREME MMM wrote:

SIMMO84 wrote:What about tyre width, are fair enough 33s are legal on a cruiser/patrol, but is the 12.5 width legal? I can't find any relevant information.

33 x 15 are legal if you tyre placard says 275 x 70 x 16 but not legal if it says 265 x 70 x 16.

A 33 x 12.5 x 16 is illegal.

Tyre width on a live axle vehicle is 1.5 that of the widest option on your vehicle.

Check you tyre placard first & do your homework and see if the 33 will be legal on your vehicle. It will depend on the tyre placard.

Cheers
David

Sorry David - can you talk me through that?

A 33 x 15 can be legal depending on what's on the tyre placard, but a 33 x 12.5 is illegal?

What am I missing?

-Scott- wrote:

XTREME MMM wrote:

SIMMO84 wrote:What about tyre width, are fair enough 33s are legal on a cruiser/patrol, but is the 12.5 width legal? I can't find any relevant information.

33 x 15 are legal if you tyre placard says 275 x 70 x 16 but not legal if it says 265 x 70 x 16.

A 33 x 12.5 x 16 is illegal.

Tyre width on a live axle vehicle is 1.5 that of the widest option on your vehicle.

Check you tyre placard first & do your homework and see if the 33 will be legal on your vehicle. It will depend on the tyre placard.

Cheers
David

Sorry David - can you talk me through that?

A 33 x 15 can be legal depending on what's on the tyre placard, but a 33 x 12.5 is illegal?

What am I missing?

33"tyre 15"rim i think