Outer Limits 4x4 Board

And I'll be looking at the pics JK takes.

i think the colours mean you might be sexually deprived?

don't worry dude, not long now and you can be morally correct while banging it 8)

it looks very cute with all those colours, i might do something similar (paint underneath me truck like that)

Wendle wrote:Curtains ROFL... My flight up there only takes 45 minutes because of your curtain fading, cow confusing time system.....

the cows are walking circles MAH!!!!

might take one to the moovies daisy is looking mighty cute in that there hide
8)

bj on roids wrote:i think the colours mean you might be sexually deprived?

don't worry dude, not long now and you can be morally correct while banging it 8)

it looks very cute with all those colours, i might do something similar (paint underneath me truck like that)

Make sure you chrome your driveshafts too!

good idea 1 mad unfortunately I don't have enough room I think I will make some sort of anti rock sway bar.
Thanks everyone for the input.
SAM

Looks like a good idea 1mad but its a shame that it carnt adjust the height of the suspension as well.

BJ WTF are you doing? This is good 4x4 tech and you have to spew your padding crap in here as well.

Sam

Before that idea was even posted i was thinking a similar setup to force more down travel with my chevys, does anyone think it would work.

cplux wrote:Before that idea was even posted i was thinking a similar setup to force more down travel with my chevys, does anyone think it would work.

I think that for any of this stuff that air has to be the way to go. It would have to be cheeper and you dont have to connect the air ram to the suspension with a flexable link (cause the air is already flexable) so the system would be a lot simpler as well.

Sam

i did the paintwork

another view, check out the big exhaust pipes

i can count three steering dampers

this vehicle is the prime candidate for gregs pruple and blue ram

Awsome but Bj i have one question WTF DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH THIS TOPIC?

BJ - you didnt even read what I posted before.

This is 4x4 tech and you are spewing your padding crap and have totally phucked this thread.

BJ, read this thread from start to finish and open your eyes - this is 4x4 tech.

Sam

has to do with what i was saying about the colours

Great tech BJ - Im sure everybody has learnt heaps from you being here.



Sam

Sam,
yes a pneumatic system does have some advantages, eg. cushioning, although speed at higher pressures is a concern, as to create the same force requirement for the same cylinder bore diameter, the same pressure is needed. Even for a relatively light vehicle such as a lux or zook approx 1ton of force is required at each rear wheel, as during climbing or off camber situations the majority of the vehicle weight could be on one point. A direct acting ram onto the diff at an outer point is ideal as it reduces the induced torque arm effect of location, but this ram must also have enough available stroke to allow full travel, often up to 20inches which can be quite expensive. Also being used in such a harsh enviroment mounting the cylinder out of the road is prefferable, another thing to consider in a long ram is the rod/stroke/neckbush ratio which in shock loading situations can cause cylinder buckling even in pneumatic cylinders. But you are correct implementing a cushioning circuit is the way to go & a hydrocushion tank can be fitted to each ram and adjusted to individual requirements(torque, vehicle weight, max compression). By utilising this feature you can power up/down each corner, or raise/lower each end & still have a cushioned ride(although a lot stiffer when fully loaded. Air is good , but hydraulic is better especially when it come time to buy the valving, heaps cheaper, more options & if something breaks just go into a nearby baddock & pinch it of a farmers tractor!! only kidding!.
below is another idea using a dodgy 4link i sketched up, please excuse the drawing as it was real quick, I didnt even have time to draw the other ram, so you just have to imagine the rams are symetrical(2 off, fro each side).

There must be a lot of force on the pivot point and lever.
I was thinking more along the lines of having the ram on top of my bump stop and just lowering it to lift the car back up level.Because with the 1/4 seetup the bump stop actually sets the ride height.

The best way to run 1/4 is like the sniper, where the 1/4 spring pack pivots forced down by an airbag system. This is the way the adjust ride height and is an optional system for leveling. As most people would agree air levelling is way too slow, on even the best rigs , especially for competition. From your pics i think you already have the top of the 1/4 spring packs pivoting so all you have to do is use 2 rams to adjust height & as tony & sam said use the bottom 2 leaves to maintain tension in over extended off camber situations. If what i explained isn't clear (probably not i do talk in odd terms) i would love to have a chat about different ideas.

Greg...
PM me if you want

Its pretty awesome shait 1 mad comes up with, most of the times i need him to draw it and explain it to me about ten times before i get the drift, but its pretty functional too.

One of the main reason behind the ram set up above is so you can use a relatively short ram stroke and utilise the levers for more downward movement.

And like my set up i dont have enough room to mount a ram onto my lower control arms, so this would come in handy.

Greg,

Explain the ram idea you showed me, about putting rams on top of my springs.

1 Mad what you said does make sense to me.
I'll test the car first and see how it drives we are mounting the shocks virtically this time which will also help. I will contact you and we can through some ideas around.I don't know wy more people haven't tried 1/4 elliptic. As it is a cheap way of getting a lot of travel.

1MAD, what are you drawing with?? ProE??

1MadEngineer wrote:Sam,
yes a pneumatic system does have some advantages, eg. cushioning, although speed at higher pressures is a concern, as to create the same force requirement for the same cylinder bore diameter, the same pressure is needed. Even for a relatively light vehicle such as a lux or zook approx 1ton of force is required at each rear wheel, as during climbing or off camber situations the majority of the vehicle weight could be on one point. A direct acting ram onto the diff at an outer point is ideal as it reduces the induced torque arm effect of location, but this ram must also have enough available stroke to allow full travel, often up to 20inches which can be quite expensive. Also being used in such a harsh enviroment mounting the cylinder out of the road is prefferable, another thing to consider in a long ram is the rod/stroke/neckbush ratio which in shock loading situations can cause cylinder buckling even in pneumatic cylinders. But you are correct implementing a cushioning circuit is the way to go & a hydrocushion tank can be fitted to each ram and adjusted to individual requirements(torque, vehicle weight, max compression). By utilising this feature you can power up/down each corner, or raise/lower each end & still have a cushioned ride(although a lot stiffer when fully loaded. Air is good , but hydraulic is better especially when it come time to buy the valving, heaps cheaper, more options & if something breaks just go into a nearby baddock & pinch it of a farmers tractor!! only kidding!.
below is another idea using a dodgy 4link i sketched up, please excuse the drawing as it was real quick, I didnt even have time to draw the other ram, so you just have to imagine the rams are symetrical(2 off, fro each side).

Lots of bending moment on the lower link. The idea of pin jointed links is to have zero bending moment - yes?

if i can get the money together i should be able to convince 1mad to fit it to my car front and rearhopefully before xrcc .stil cant afford computor for v8dont want to run carby so staying with 4 cyl for now. but preparing for 1mads system now

2car wrote:

1MadEngineer wrote:Sam,
yes a pneumatic system does have some advantages, eg. cushioning, although speed at higher pressures is a concern, as to create the same force requirement for the same cylinder bore diameter, the same pressure is needed. Even for a relatively light vehicle such as a lux or zook approx 1ton of force is required at each rear wheel, as during climbing or off camber situations the majority of the vehicle weight could be on one point. A direct acting ram onto the diff at an outer point is ideal as it reduces the induced torque arm effect of location, but this ram must also have enough available stroke to allow full travel, often up to 20inches which can be quite expensive. Also being used in such a harsh enviroment mounting the cylinder out of the road is prefferable, another thing to consider in a long ram is the rod/stroke/neckbush ratio which in shock loading situations can cause cylinder buckling even in pneumatic cylinders. But you are correct implementing a cushioning circuit is the way to go & a hydrocushion tank can be fitted to each ram and adjusted to individual requirements(torque, vehicle weight, max compression). By utilising this feature you can power up/down each corner, or raise/lower each end & still have a cushioned ride(although a lot stiffer when fully loaded. Air is good , but hydraulic is better especially when it come time to buy the valving, heaps cheaper, more options & if something breaks just go into a nearby baddock & pinch it of a farmers tractor!! only kidding!.
below is another idea using a dodgy 4link i sketched up, please excuse the drawing as it was real quick, I didnt even have time to draw the other ram, so you just have to imagine the rams are symetrical(2 off, fro each side).

Lots of bending moment on the lower link. The idea of pin jointed links is to have zero bending moment - yes?

Yeah, but by applying a load along one of the links like in that setup, the link is becoming a beam, not just a tension / compression member.

1MadEngineer wrote:The (pink) Rod in the pic is a torque rod eg. front IFS which allows for movement of the diff even under "driven" articulation, which is something most systems dont allow for.!! Also the beauty that it can be adapted to most 3link designs....

Mad I may have missed something but arn't Torsion boars designed to load up in one direction.......

I was just thinkin of the loading on the materials used and metal fatigue would be a concern in the torsion component of that setup....

Just curious interesting idea though

DirtPig wrote:

2car wrote:

1MadEngineer wrote:Sam,
yes a pneumatic system does have some advantages, eg. cushioning, although speed at higher pressures is a concern, as to create the same force requirement for the same cylinder bore diameter, the same pressure is needed. Even for a relatively light vehicle such as a lux or zook approx 1ton of force is required at each rear wheel, as during climbing or off camber situations the majority of the vehicle weight could be on one point. A direct acting ram onto the diff at an outer point is ideal as it reduces the induced torque arm effect of location, but this ram must also have enough available stroke to allow full travel, often up to 20inches which can be quite expensive. Also being used in such a harsh enviroment mounting the cylinder out of the road is prefferable, another thing to consider in a long ram is the rod/stroke/neckbush ratio which in shock loading situations can cause cylinder buckling even in pneumatic cylinders. But you are correct implementing a cushioning circuit is the way to go & a hydrocushion tank can be fitted to each ram and adjusted to individual requirements(torque, vehicle weight, max compression). By utilising this feature you can power up/down each corner, or raise/lower each end & still have a cushioned ride(although a lot stiffer when fully loaded. Air is good , but hydraulic is better especially when it come time to buy the valving, heaps cheaper, more options & if something breaks just go into a nearby baddock & pinch it of a farmers tractor!! only kidding!.
below is another idea using a dodgy 4link i sketched up, please excuse the drawing as it was real quick, I didnt even have time to draw the other ram, so you just have to imagine the rams are symetrical(2 off, fro each side).

Lots of bending moment on the lower link. The idea of pin jointed links is to have zero bending moment - yes?

Yeah, but by applying a load along one of the links like in that setup, the link is becoming a beam, not just a tension / compression member.

Correct.

i am totally lost lol....