competition classes

[big red]

thunder, you certainly did open a can of worms
While i agree that a universal set of classes would be what everyone should be aiming for it would seem that to make it fair is nearly impossible.
since tyre size means modifications of some sort to make them work maybe we could just have classes based on tyre size alone and you can modify to your hearts content.
33's.
35's.
37's.
and over.
then to be competitive you have to build it as good as you can make it, at least there would be a big variety of rigs competing against each other.
shane

[65Mog]

There is one class thats begging to be included it's the " Trailer Queen" (the How the fu-k did they get that registered class).

[onall4]

So If you want to be in a different class than your in now I suggest you take that Locker out, so you only have 1. or put that locker or lockers in so your more competitve.

Ummm either way 1 locker or 2, doesnt this mean u are still super modified???

Its all well and good when the class you are in is obvious but for most of us who use our 4b's as daily drivers as well, and have limited mods to get us thru the trails we choose 2 do, it is not so clear...I have IFS and 2 lockers, no lift, no huge tyres, standard suspension, so im super modified...How competitive can i be. even with one locker ..same class..was a time when there was a class for 1 locker..

classes should pay more attention to those who want to compete

So heres my Rant....

ie standard - factory with tyres to 33" no lockers, lsd if standard equipment

modified - 1 locker tyres to 35", 5" lift max (including bodylifts) no custom suspensions (after market only), diff ratios allowed.

super modified - 2 lockers tyres 35" to 38" , aftermarket suspension only(ie - nothing requiring alteration to existing setup, bolt on only, no welding!), lift to 8" (to allow the aftermarket 5" lifts with 3" bodylift), diff ratios free.

Open(outlaw) - Go for it! Engines, suspensions, tubes...etc

This setup would allow more people to be able to compete, more compettition for the classes, distinguish the better drivers vs the better vehicles...Fair enough i'd still be super modified but i'll give anything a go...Thats my 2 cents worth anyhow..

I am sure that you guy's all have a copy or can get a copy of the current class rules for nissan trials, willowglen, Jamboree, W'pecker. T'Truck etc.

So all I am saying is that they are in clear black & white. So follow them. If you read through them thoroughly, you will know what class you are in. Wether or not they are fair is another point. But they are clear. If you have a query on something your not sure on, let us know & we will try to explain it, or contact the event commitee & ask them.

Getting a uniform set of class rules will always be difficult.
Its like asking a number of businesses in the same industry to adopt the way one business runs theirs. It just won't happen when you will never please everyone, there will always be some people that are dissatisfied with the class ruling.

Like I said before, The current rules are set & final. So you have 2 choices, Follow them, or don't compete.

[thunder]

in the v8 car racing does the rules change from when they race in victoria
or nsw.....NO
when i compete i obey the rules for that comp..
for the mainstream 4wdriver we havent got a lot of bucks,but we want a competative truck so we build what we can for a certain class,but the next comp we may do has different classes....example .open at nissan trials
up to 37s but super modified and modified at jambo was 36s.i know if i was runnin 37s i couldnt afford to go get a set of 36s or is there a hire place i dont know about..

pete .u wanna be competative so u have built a top truck and u know u will be in the top class...but others want to build trucks and be COMpetative in there class,,but the classes change 4 the next event.

and yes i know u have said the classes wont change this year or proberly next but if it comes up again maybe they could think about universal rules accross the board....
THIS WOULD REALLY HELP THE AVERAGE 4 WHEELER OUT THERE THAT DOES NOT HAVE A LOT OF money....

[big red]

agree with you thunder, even if they are unfair it would be good to have the rules the same in different comps, especially if you are monetarily challenged

[onall4]

in the v8 car racing does the rules change from when they race in victoria
or nsw.....NO
when i compete i obey the rules for that comp..
for the mainstream 4wdriver we havent got a lot of bucks,but we want a competative truck so we build what we can for a certain class,but the next comp we may do has different classes....example .open at nissan trials
up to 37s but super modified and modified at jambo was 36s.i know if i was runnin 37s i couldnt afford to go get a set of 36s or is there a hire place i dont know about..

pete .u wanna be competative so u have built a top truck and u know u will be in the top class...but others want to build trucks and be COMpetative in there class,,but the classes change 4 the next event.

and yes i know u have said the classes wont change this year or proberly next but if it comes up again maybe they could think about universal rules accross the board....
THIS WOULD REALLY HELP THE AVERAGE 4 WHEELER OUT THERE THAT DOES NOT HAVE A LOT OF money....

You have mentioned only 1 competition that has different rules, & that comp was'nt even run last year. So, why the fuss. The Jamboree is mainly a mildly competitive comp. more family / social weekend. So leave it at that. The Nissan Trials & Willowglen are nearly identical in their rules.... Tuff truck & Woodpecker can not be compared, Because they do not want classes. 1 class thats it. Like it or lump it.
So at present whats the problem..... !!!!!!!!!
If you read back to what I have posted, There have been attempts to try to bring the rules to be universal. All to no prevale because there committees have only taken on board what they want. So your barkin up the wrong tree

This is a ongoing problem, & will remain as is for a while.

Again. you know the rules, so sell your fucking 36's & buy 37's or what ever. don't compare the rules to a more social comp like the Jamboree..

If you have 37's. you can use them in nearly all comps in a reasonable class. & if your still not competitve then do more to your truck over time if bucks are a problem for the average 4wder..... Like anything in life you can't always get everything you want...

[thunder]

This is a ongoing problem, & will remain as is for a while..

well thats answered my question..
this thread just aint about me,it seem others also had concerns about this!

as for building a 4b ,my goal is to have a competative 4b for the open class as it stands at the moment..example 37s 2 lockers,five link ETC etc...


i only mentioned the jambo cause there was i bit of fuss about the classes
i read it on the association forum......

hey im not shooting the messenger

[Dozoor]

Sam i agree with your ideas on classing , bare the limo rule ive siad it before but once agian just for fun limos are soft lokers and can be modified to work very close to a loker .
Pete A . tis all fine and dandy when your club has x amount of members but only a dozen want to compete in those fubuluos invitationals sauch as NIsan Trials and willoglen . But to some people that have the bad habit of calling a spade a spade , and don't peticully fit the required critera , than its by by black bird , find a comp that dosnt require an invite , so lets see oh tuff truck and jambo, now tt is only 2 years old and might not even surface agian not to mention its only for the top 30 super moded trucks , so the guys in the less modified classes have got good pionts.
a lot want to compete so Jamboree is there only option, You can be pretty sure the rules for the jamboree will change agian for 2004 , hopfully better suiting the majority.
As for me i reallly don't give a s--t what class im in.
But i like to see poeple get a fair deal
'

[onall4]

Sam i agree with your ideas on classing , bare the limo rule ive siad it before but once agian just for fun limos are soft lokers and can be modified to work very close to a loker .
Pete A . tis all fine and dandy when your club has x amount of members but only a dozen want to compete in those fubuluos invitationals sauch as NIsan Trials and willoglen . But to some people that have the bad habit of calling a spade a spade , and don't peticully fit the required critera , than its by by black bird , find a comp that dosnt require an invite , so lets see oh tuff truck and jambo, now tt is only 2 years old and might not even surface agian not to mention its only for the top 30 super moded trucks , so the guys in the less modified classes have got good pionts.
a lot want to compete so Jamboree is there only option, You can be pretty sure the rules for the jamboree will change agian for 2004 , hopfully better suiting the majority.
As for me i reallly don't give a s--t what class im in.
But i like to see poeple get a fair deal
'

I think you should do your home work a little better bud.
Nissan Trials & Willow Glen are 1st in best dressed not preferred clubs or invitation only. Even Woodpecker, if you send your entry in early, you will get your teams in...... So whats the story...... Where do you get your info from..... Switch On........Stop looking for an excuse to not compete.... Drive it hard or Stay home........

[Midget]

I agree.
I've driven in quite a few comps with my rig lifted and not locked.
So i was in a higher class, I was mainly there for fun. If i did well, That was a bonus.
I've since upgraded and still compete in both open and sometimes outlaw class.
If you don't want to compete in a particular class then build your vehicle to the lower class requirement.

Jamie

[big red]

i think what he means is: take my truck for instance,if it had a seven inch lift and 36's, nothing else.
in landcruiser park comp it was in standard class.
in Q ROCK event it was in moddified class.
in short course it was in outlaw class.
shane

[Dozoor]

Onalfours

Posted: Thu May 01, 2003 8:31 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Onallfours Wrote:

I think you should do your home work a little better bud.
Nissan Trials & Willow Glen are 1st in best dressed not preferred clubs or invitation only. Even Woodpecker, if you send your entry in early, you will get your teams in...... So whats the story...... Where do you get your info from..... Switch On........Stop looking for an excuse to not compete.... Drive it hard or Stay home........

Read eg: The guys in less modified classes
Read eg: I don't give a s%^t what class im in .
Understand Pal, Im writting about the problems for new competitors and new club members .
With nissan trials an associated club gets to run one team ? yes
In a club of 150 members that has a possible 30 poeple who would like to compete there is normally a democratic way to choose a there team,
But i could imaging in some clubs it would be more likley a dictator ship that chooses the said team.
The same format is with willowglen? i think .
So its just so simple as throwing in your team , how does your club pick there team pete?
As for exuses ,well i compete where i want and when i want ,
Go hard go home ... I don't brake it at least once at every event ,and I drive the thing there back and 150ks day five days a week.
Hows your day been

[M&M Custom Engineerin]

We pick the drivers for our club by who actually has one running!!

[onall4]

Onalfours

Posted: Thu May 01, 2003 8:31 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Onallfours Wrote:

I think you should do your home work a little better bud.
Nissan Trials & Willow Glen are 1st in best dressed not preferred clubs or invitation only. Even Woodpecker, if you send your entry in early, you will get your teams in...... So whats the story...... Where do you get your info from..... Switch On........Stop looking for an excuse to not compete.... Drive it hard or Stay home........

Read eg: The guys in less modified classes
Read eg: I don't give a s%^t what class im in .
Understand Pal, Im writting about the problems for new competitors and new club members .
With nissan trials an associated club gets to run one team ? yes
In a club of 150 members that has a possible 30 poeple who would like to compete there is normally a democratic way to choose a there team,
But i could imaging in some clubs it would be more likley a dictator ship that chooses the said team.
The same format is with willowglen? i think .
So its just so simple as throwing in your team , how does your club pick there team pete?
As for exuses ,well i compete where i want and when i want ,
Go hard go home ... I don't brake it at least once at every event ,and I drive the thing there back and 150ks day five days a week.
Hows your day been

So your not blaming classes now. You've moved onto a club problem. Start your own fucking club then.
If your in a large club & can't get a drive as often as you like then why is that a major class problem.
As for the smart remarks. Tall poppy syndrome. I luv it...
Gee, for someone who breaks a lot, he sure gets a lot of 1st & 2nd places. Maybe you should have a go at breaking shit, you might get a trophy for it.

[thunder]

ok pete ..heres one for classes that i first seen at willowglenn.

the cars there that had the solid axle conversion..........vitara...4runners...etc (was ifs)
it didnt seem fair they were placed in the open class as they didnt have anything extra from the modified class .
....good on them for entering
and if i was in the same boat i would also have a go and gain some experiance

[Dozoor]

Pete tis about poeple starting out in the sport not me or you Geez i can't even remember to lock my hubs,but on the other hand if you can't find a hat that fits !!
Oh and trophys are a western thing , but i have got a few (very small ones) was lucky the major players where busy breaking s$%t

Mick if i started a club i reckon it would be is there five cars in the club this year hehe or is any one of the cars running ,

So basically there you have it for those of you about to compete Join the subaru club your sure to get in !

[Wendle]

We pick the drivers for our club by who actually has one running!!

hahahahah, that is how all the best clubs are.. everyones trucks are broken from the last event, or being rebuit for the next one, not enough trucks for a social drive, ever...

[POS]

Onalfours

Posted: Thu May 01, 2003 8:31 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Onallfours Wrote:

I think you should do your home work a little better bud.
Nissan Trials & Willow Glen are 1st in best dressed not preferred clubs or invitation only. Even Woodpecker, if you send your entry in early, you will get your teams in...... So whats the story...... Where do you get your info from..... Switch On........Stop looking for an excuse to not compete.... Drive it hard or Stay home........

Read eg: The guys in less modified classes
Read eg: I don't give a s%^t what class im in .
Understand Pal, Im writting about the problems for new competitors and new club members .
With nissan trials an associated club gets to run one team ? yes
In a club of 150 members that has a possible 30 poeple who would like to compete there is normally a democratic way to choose a there team,
But i could imaging in some clubs it would be more likley a dictator ship that chooses the said team.
The same format is with willowglen? i think .
So its just so simple as throwing in your team , how does your club pick there team pete?
As for exuses ,well i compete where i want and when i want ,
Go hard go home ... I don't brake it at least once at every event ,and I drive the thing there back and 150ks day five days a week.
Hows your day been

OK,

Dozoor what is your point?

I think people like Pete BUILD OUR SPORT!!!!

This is how i look at competitions!!!!!!!!!!

1. THIS IS A AMATUER SPORT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2. Whats the big deal about if you WIN or NOT, its not like theres $500,000.00 up for grabs (usually a hat and shirt and a silly little plastic trophy that you throw in the corner with all the others).

3. Compete in what ever class you can get in, ATM in australia its all for FUN!!!!. I am yet to see a Large Sponsor walk up to a RIG after an event and say well done heres a set of tyres!

4.For the SPORT OF 4WDING to grow we need all levels, from Mum and Dad in the daily Driver to Pete and the likes in there Tube Buggys! What would the SPORT develope to if no one went to the EXTREME to develope there RIGS, we would still be stressing over that knee high water crossing!

5.SPIRIT (not the achahol type) of the SPORT! Who will be competeing and will i enjoy driving with them! At XRCC round 0 Pete A comented on how GREAT the QLDers welcomed him and other southeners to the event, we didn't treat it like it was them and us, we are all there to do the same thing, meet great people and have some wicked FUN! (like i said before theres no huge prizes up for grabs)

6. Everyone that competes is a winner in my books. I have seen people in less capable RIGS still there giving it ago because there was no separate class for them, they know they won't win but they do it to test them and there machines so they can go back to the workshop and develope there RIG so it will be more capable next time or the time after!


When i competed in Round 0 and Round 1 of XRCC i did not expect to win, i run stock hilux running gear (with longfields) a set of 38.5 baja claws and a TIRED OLD 3Y with only one locker, how can this compete against Rear steer, hyro suspension, 454 big block (i think) and every thing else or a V8 power landie with MOG axles and cutting brakes!

I DID NOT ASK FOR A SEPARATE CLASS so i could have a chance of winning i was more than ready to MIX IT UP WITH THE BIG GUNS to see how i go!

I LOVED IT!

I learnt what worked and what didn't work on my rig and now i can plan to correct those problems so next time i will be more of a threat!

THE MORAL of my little rant is "COMPS ARE MEANT TO BE FUN" we cant have a separate CLASS for every vehicle otherwise every one would win and that will become boring! ATM in Australia there is no need for a fixed set of rules covering all the 4WD events, each and every one SHOULD be different thats what keeps it interesting!
If your in a class that you keep winning than move yourself up (volunteeraly) to the next class and keep going, even though you may not win at least you have tried to improve you driving skill and capabilities!!!

If you in a class that is above your vehicles modifications than stick with it and have some fun, ITS NOT ALL ABOUT WINNING!!!!!!!!!!!

[thunder]

this was never pointed at pete ....the like it or lump it attatude wasnt very nice.most of us like it thats why we r here.

POS i agree on most points exept with the sport.i associate sport with fitness and im not fit....
comps are fun ..a great adrenalin rush if u do well in a section or event..
but most people that do comps are of a competative nature so u want to do well..

and the people in less capable rigs are still hoping to do well as everyone loves an underdog!!!!!!!!!i luv it when these 4bs beat the big boys.

[onall4]

ok pete ..heres one for classes that i first seen at willowglenn.

the cars there that had the solid axle conversion..........vitara...4runners...etc (was ifs)
it didnt seem fair they were placed in the open class as they didnt have anything extra from the modified class .
....good on them for entering
and if i was in the same boat i would also have a go and gain some experiance

Ok, True or not true.

Is a live axle conversion a minor or major mod.

I say major, cause it's a pain in the arse & quite a substantial job.
Competitors knew well before the event that this mod would put them into open class. Celia Barry was talking about it at TT 2002 prior to the event.
She knew that by doing the conversion that it would put her in that class. She didn't complain!!! ( much ).....

It's hard to know where to draw the line with mods/classes/rules etc....

Lets just keep the fun in the sport hey.

ps. Thanks POS.....some great points....

[OVERKILL ENG]

How did this end up beeing a pic on Pete thread
As far as I cajn see and this is just my veiw you may or maynot agree. The rules need to be standardised for all the events but until this does happen then those that want to compete should choose which class they wish to run in and build there trucks accordingly. There is always enough time between events to comply with the next events classes.The class rules are slways out with pplenty of time for trucks to comply.If people dont want to change there trucks then they don't have to compete I know this sounds harsh but they are the facts.I chose to build what I built and I have to compete with trucks that are way bigger and better than mine but I still have a go. Everyone seems to bag the outlaw class trucks as been million dollar trucks with unlimited budgets.If you added up what a lot of them cost it would be the same as what cars in the lower classes have spent.
So I think people have to stop picking on the blokes that are axctually making the sport grow and atract the crowds and encourage them.
SAM

[POS]

How did this end up beeing a pic on Pete thread
As far as I cajn see and this is just my veiw you may or maynot agree. The rules need to be standardised for all the events but until this does happen then those that want to compete should choose which class they wish to run in and build there trucks accordingly. There is always enough time between events to comply with the next events classes.The class rules are slways out with pplenty of time for trucks to comply.If people dont want to change there trucks then they don't have to compete I know this sounds harsh but they are the facts.I chose to build what I built and I have to compete with trucks that are way bigger and better than mine but I still have a go. Everyone seems to bag the outlaw class trucks as been million dollar trucks with unlimited budgets.If you added up what a lot of them cost it would be the same as what cars in the lower classes have spent.
So I think people have to stop picking on the blokes that are axctually making the sport grow and atract the crowds and encourage them.
SAM

Well said Sam!

[thunder]

its taken me 6 months to start a thread past 1 page..thanks fellas

it has shown that there is concern about the classes but we all could debate this till we r red in the face so if i was picking then i apologize...

well i seen duncan today and he had a gu (ute)there with 6 in sus and 2 in body with 42s .so there is a chance for me yet !!!!!!!!maybe

[Dozoor]

pos ,sam as i explianed to pete ,
I was Trying to piont out how it is dificult for people STARTING in our sport to get a run . NOT myself .
He posted a reply with sarcasem directed at me , i merley returned the same , I am not defaiming his abilitys .
I simply make it a habit to treat poeple as they treat me
I have no idea of the competition seen in queensland pos , so my comments are only aimed at the situation in nsw.

[zerosin]

And still there has 2 be a better way to classify trucks
what about 2 hiluxs both identical but one has had a solid axle coversion to get rid of the ifs the other solid from the factory ..all standard no lockers...the SAS makes the ifs exactly the same as the other but ones standard and the other becomes super modified!! how can this be justified??it makes a joke of the classes now doesnt it?

[Midget]

Even though the hilux's came out with live axle front and IFS,Anyone who changes there IFS front to live axle should know they will put up in class as they have changed what the factory front suspension was.
If they don't the IFS front end maybe they should have bought an early model with the live axle standard.
LETS REMEMBER THE COMPS ARE FOR FUN,SO WHY BITCH ABOUT THE CLASS RULES.LETS JUST GO WITH WHAT THEY HAVE AND ENJOY WHEELIN OUR RIGS ON HARD CORE TRACKS.

[Cheezy4x4]

I agree with alot of what POS said, and to add to how people get started in the comp sceen, there are too many people out there that think they can build up a 4x4 and all of a sudden get into TTC, and crack the shyts when they dont get in.
To all out there, most that compete in the top events, it has taken them years mega dollars and lots of small events to get where thay are ATM. Also for sponsors, its taken me 10 years to get my first one, so where do you fit into the picture ( be real with yourself, do the time so you can do the crime)

[big red]

it would be nice to have the same classes across all competitions.
i dont want to go in outlaw class as the tracks are too hard for my rig but to be in modified i need 35's,36's and 37's to have any chance at a fair run.
Sorry but i cant afford three sets of tyres as well as a road set. :(

[65Mog]

I think you could complain about classes to the clubs that run these events till you are red in the face, and when your finished they will ask do you want to drive? if the answer's no then they will get one of the ten people lined up behind you. I don't think they give a f--k. You can't complain to much these tracks don't just build themselfs, and the people that build them are not paid, they spent months before hand getting everything ready, we should be thankful these clubs run the comps and not worry about what class you end up in.

[planb]

Read eg: The guys in less modified classes
Read eg: I don't give a s%^t what class im in .
Understand Pal, Im writting about the problems for new competitors and new club members .
With nissan trials an associated club gets to run one team ? yes
In a club of 150 members that has a possible 30 poeple who would like to compete there is normally a democratic way to choose a there team,
But i could imaging in some clubs it would be more likley a dictator ship that chooses the said team.
The same format is with willowglen? i think .
So its just so simple as throwing in your team , how does your club pick there team pete?
As for exuses ,well i compete where i want and when i want ,
Go hard go home ... I don't brake it at least once at every event ,and I drive the thing there back and 150ks day five days a week.
Hows your day been

Dozoor/others, if you're a member of a club with 150 plus members and you cant get a start for nissan trials/willowglen/pecker etc then why not just start your own club, call it something stupid and nominate yourself and your buddies for the next comp,

its as simple as that, theres info on the rfwdca website on how to form a club, it costs next to nothing and if you put your hand up early, you'll get an invite to all the regular association comps

if you need more info, email me offlist and ill send you a heap of paperwork