Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Cheers guys. Sounding more interesting the more I look at it. One thing different with your's vn is you use propane held in a gaseous state. We have Liquid Petrolium Gas which is held in a liquid state hence the name so the kit you have would have to be modified to atomise the liquid. I'm trying to chase down some guys here in OZ that have (after a lot of blown engines) been successful. I'll post any info I get. All that stuff you posted bilby is for petrol engines that will run on straight gas. Diesels are very touchy with gas and easy to f##k if not done properly. I'll put it on hold till someone can convince me they know what they are doing.

toughnut wrote:Cheers guys. Sounding more interesting the more I look at it. One thing different with your's vn is you use propane held in a gaseous state. We have Liquid Petrolium Gas which is held in a liquid state hence the name so the kit you have would have to be modified to atomise the liquid. I'm trying to chase down some guys here in OZ that have (after a lot of blown engines) been successful. I'll post any info I get. All that stuff you posted bilby is for petrol engines that will run on straight gas. Diesels are very touchy with gas and easy to f##k if not done properly. I'll put it on hold till someone can convince me they know what they are doing.

i got a write up round here somewhere bout LPG and deisel engines i'll look for it and post up some numbers for ya

Mate of mine fits gas setups for diesels i will have a yack to him about it see wat costs are & where to get it from over here

toughnut wrote:Still hoping someone knows of where to get a kit here in OZ. I'd like to have a look at a kit before I buy it.

http://www.globalfuelsolutions.com/

ATS diesel performance
www.atsdiesel.com/

www.atsdiesel.com/products/products-gm- ... ropane.asp

Yarno wrote:

toughnut wrote:Still hoping someone knows of where to get a kit here in OZ. I'd like to have a look at a kit before I buy it.

http://www.globalfuelsolutions.com/

Team Green Autogas
11 Durimble St Camp Hill 4152 (07) 3398 4488
Mobile Service 0415 891 545


These guys sell kits for 4by's, and know heaps. Talk to the owner, Dallas.


Regards

Cheers guy's. You've given me plenty of homework I'll let you know how I go...

Found this this morning while searching for propane injection..

http://www.pacificwi-fi.com/axelrod/

DIY instructions in PDF format, sounds very interesting almost too good to be true! Who wants to chuck in for this PDF??

"...You can easily add 50 to 150 HP to a turbo diesel engine and increase the performance..."

Can anyone substantiate this kind of power gain?!!! I was wondering whether it was legal to run such a system in NSW/Aus., and also is it adaptable for non-turbo cars also?

Frenzal wrote:"...You can easily add 50 to 150 HP to a turbo diesel engine and increase the performance..."

Can anyone substantiate this kind of power gain?!!! I was wondering whether it was legal to run such a system in NSW/Aus., and also is it adaptable for non-turbo cars also?

Supposedly it can provide benefits for a NA diesel. But works better on a turbo setup. Shouldn't be any reason why its not allowed. As it increses the efficency of the engine and makes for a much cleaner burn. Thats why it should increse the fuel economy. As say a normal TD42T is 60%efficent at converting fuel to power (not just heat). Well adding this type of system may increse that to 85% (also with less power wasted to heat). Think this is how I read some of the info>

We've been playing around with this in the last few days......slapped a mixer in a few inches before the turbo and connected the BBQ bottle. The regulator we've used isn't up to the job and is only allowing approx 2 psi of LPG at 8-10 psi of boost pressure. So while its hardly getting enough LPG to have any performance improvements, it has cleaned up the exhaust smoke to ZERO, and raised revs at idle from 550rpm to 1000.

So while we haven't concluded anything with regard to performance improvements, it seems to be on the right track for efficiencies and economy. By all accounts we should be able to turn the fuel pump down and get same performance with less diesel.

Cheers
Mitch

It does sound promising...depending on the consumption of LPG compared with the saving of diesel.

While we are really only after performance improvements, the increased efficiencies atleast goes some way to support the comments, thoughts and rumours from other sources....so we're on the right track.

Hopefully by tomorrow night we should have some decent power gains which was the most important thing we wanted. Then we'll spend the money on a proper kit to avoid a potential meltdown from our dodgy setup.

GQ TROL wrote:While we are really only after performance improvements, the increased efficiencies atleast goes some way to support the comments, thoughts and rumours from other sources....so we're on the right track.

Hopefully by tomorrow night we should have some decent power gains which was the most important thing we wanted. Then we'll spend the money on a proper kit to avoid a potential meltdown from our dodgy setup.

Keep us posted.

Frenzal wrote:

GQ TROL wrote:While we are really only after performance improvements, the increased efficiencies atleast goes some way to support the comments, thoughts and rumours from other sources....so we're on the right track.

Hopefully by tomorrow night we should have some decent power gains which was the most important thing we wanted. Then we'll spend the money on a proper kit to avoid a potential meltdown from our dodgy setup.

Keep us posted.

Definitely! Have been talking with Mytqik from the board about a DIY set up using the LPG mixer from LPG conversions to regulate the flow of propane according to air flow in the intake, not sure if you could tune them to suit this though.

Why is everyone introducing the propane before the turbo? why not after so as to help cool the charge? Any reason for this?

I spoke to Dallas from Team Green in Brissy and he fits a kit for $3300 drive in drive out. The size of the tank varies depending on what your needs are but generally around 1/3 the amount of diesel you have. The gas is hooked up to a micro switch on the accellerator so it is turned off at idle so you don't waste gas and it also turns off when the engine is at full noise. He also said the power gains had varied depending on the vehicle but the worst was around 27% gain and the best was around 46%. He went on to say that turbo diesels accept the gas better than non-turbo as gas needs to have a fairly free flowing engine and the turbo provides this. Not a bad increase for $3300. He normally allows 3 days for fitting but usually only takes 2. His mobile number is 0415 891 545. He's happy just to chat about the different applications that may suit you. He was on site fittling a kit to a pantec truck when I spoke to him yesterday. He also has an info kit that he can send out if you want. As long as my budget is big enough I'll definately be paying him a visit.

toughnut wrote:I spoke to Dallas from Team Green in Brissy and he fits a kit for $3300 drive in drive out. The size of the tank varies depending on what your needs are but generally around 1/3 the amount of diesel you have. The gas is hooked up to a micro switch on the accellerator so it is turned off at idle so you don't waste gas and it also turns off when the engine is at full noise. He also said the power gains had varied depending on the vehicle but the worst was around 27% gain and the best was around 46%. He went on to say that turbo diesels accept the gas better than non-turbo as gas needs to have a fairly free flowing engine and the turbo provides this. Not a bad increase for $3300. He normally allows 3 days for fitting but usually only takes 2. His mobile number is 0415 891 545. He's happy just to chat about the different applications that may suit you. He was on site fittling a kit to a pantec truck when I spoke to him yesterday. He also has an info kit that he can send out if you want. As long as my budget is big enough I'll definately be paying him a visit.

If I remember rightly these guys own (or sponsor) a bright orange comp GQ ute with gas that competes in the ASCC.

I remember seeing it at an ASCC even on a stage with a huge (near vertical) hill climb at the end. There was a huge difference obvious between the output in this truck and the output of the other GQ's in the comp (the others had heavily modified turbo diesels but without the gas). From memory I think it drove up one gear higher than all the other GQ's and didn't require sidestepping the clutch at 3000rpm to launch up, like the non-gas GQ's were doing.

ISUZUROVER wrote:

toughnut wrote:I spoke to Dallas from Team Green in Brissy and he fits a kit for $3300 drive in drive out. The size of the tank varies depending on what your needs are but generally around 1/3 the amount of diesel you have. The gas is hooked up to a micro switch on the accellerator so it is turned off at idle so you don't waste gas and it also turns off when the engine is at full noise. He also said the power gains had varied depending on the vehicle but the worst was around 27% gain and the best was around 46%. He went on to say that turbo diesels accept the gas better than non-turbo as gas needs to have a fairly free flowing engine and the turbo provides this. Not a bad increase for $3300. He normally allows 3 days for fitting but usually only takes 2. His mobile number is 0415 891 545. He's happy just to chat about the different applications that may suit you. He was on site fittling a kit to a pantec truck when I spoke to him yesterday. He also has an info kit that he can send out if you want. As long as my budget is big enough I'll definately be paying him a visit.

If I remember rightly these guys own (or sponsor) a bright orange comp GQ ute with gas that competes in the ASCC.

I remember seeing it at an ASCC even on a stage with a huge (near vertical) hill climb at the end. There was a huge difference obvious between the output in this truck and the output of the other GQ's in the comp (the others had heavily modified turbo diesels but without the gas). From memory I think it drove up one gear higher than all the other GQ's and didn't require sidestepping the clutch at 3000rpm to launch up, like the non-gas GQ's were doing.

From what I have seen on videos/magazines, this truck belongs to Tony Dodds. It had an LPG-kit from Team Green Autogas, now it has a Holden 5.0l V8. I think

Another thing regarding LPG/Propane powerincrease, a Landrover TD5 fitted with Powershot 2000 propane-kit, got an extra 30 HP and torque went from 340NM to 430NM, he dynoed it yesterday. The LCMP GU tray went from 170HP to 208 HP with LPG, the GU is rwhp.

I have Powershot in my GQ TD, with 12mm plunger, and like GQ TROL said, you get less smoke from idle and upwards with propane, better combustion. You will get the similar effect with LPG.

Yeah as long as I have the $$$$ I'll be getting gas injection.

Spoke to my mate yesterday said you have to be carefull with the setup if done wrong you can burn a hole in your pistons

Also takes a long time to get your money back from the investment in the gear

It's for a comp GU ute so I'm not really looking for a money return just a power return.

I have Powershot in my GQ TD, with 12mm plunger, and like GQ TROL said, you get less smoke from idle and upwards with propane, better combustion. You will get the similar effect with LPG.

G'day Per, how's it going?? Did you get your bonnet back yet??

Regarding your PowerShot kit, what sort of mileage do you get from the 9kg BBQ bottle when running propane??

Cheers
Mitch

Ok, so we had another crack at this on Friday night....results were promising.

Changed the regulator to deliver 6 psi of LPG at approx 6-8 psi of boost pressure. Kept same dodgy mixer about 6 inchs before turbo, and BBQ bottle.

Off idle it cleaned up exhaust smoke almost to zero, revved easier, was ALOT more responsive and was generally a lot livelier (read fun) to drive. Lag was reduced significantly.

The best part........in 3rd gear, bout 50km/hr up the road from the workshop, stand on the gas and all hell breaks loose. Trucks gets into it in a BIG BIG HURRY.......with lotsa traction on the seal it wants to lift front wheels off the ground!!!! Usually have to rape the shit out of the truck to pull wheels off the ground, but this time it wants to do it easy!!! Back to the workshop, quick change of the undies and remove the LPG before we did something stupid :-)

Still some problems which need sorting though. Our setup refused to deliver LPG consistantly once it was on boost....seemed to get a lungfull and that was it. Suspect it’s the regulator, so we'll probably just buy the proper reg etc to avoid any further headaches!!

Hope that helps anyone who was thinking about doing it.

Cheers
Mitch

GQ TROL wrote:Ok, so we had another crack at this on Friday night....results were promising.

Changed the regulator to deliver 6 psi of LPG at approx 6-8 psi of boost pressure. Kept same dodgy mixer about 6 inchs before turbo, and BBQ bottle.

Off idle it cleaned up exhaust smoke almost to zero, revved easier, was ALOT more responsive and was generally a lot livelier (read fun) to drive. Lag was reduced significantly.

The best part........in 3rd gear, bout 50km/hr up the road from the workshop, stand on the gas and all hell breaks loose. Trucks gets into it in a BIG BIG HURRY.......with lotsa traction on the seal it wants to lift front wheels off the ground!!!! Usually have to rape the shit out of the truck to pull wheels off the ground, but this time it wants to do it easy!!! Back to the workshop, quick change of the undies and remove the LPG before we did something stupid :-)

Still some problems which need sorting though. Our setup refused to deliver LPG consistantly once it was on boost....seemed to get a lungfull and that was it. Suspect it’s the regulator, so we'll probably just buy the proper reg etc to avoid any further headaches!!

Hope that helps anyone who was thinking about doing it.

Cheers
Mitch

GQ TROL, On the Powershot-kit I have, the pressure valve you mount on the BBQ-bottle is set at 3 bar from the factory. It must be around 40 psi or something.

And yes, you get a few extra HP with gas

GQ TROL, On the Powershot-kit I have, the pressure valve you mount on the BBQ-bottle is set at 3 bar from the factory. It must be around 40 psi or something.

And yes, you get a few extra HP with gas

G'day Per,
I'd say with a decent fuel pump, turbo, intercooler setup running LPG or propane.... about 300 HP at the wheels certainly seems achievable from the TD42 .

Going to push ahead with our other truck and try to get it built for end of July now .

This is all sounding very promising, keep us posted GQ TROL!!

Wouldnt an intercooler be pointless when running LPG due to the chilled gas? And also why inject before the turbo and not after?

Drop Bear,
LPG was injected before turbo to allow it to be adequately mixed before dropping into the inlet manifold.

Not sure how much cooler the LPG makes the air.....would need to install temp gauges before and after the LPG injection point to be sure. If there are still gains to be made from having an intercooler, it would be obvious fairly quickly.

Cheers
Mitch

Got the info pack from team green autogas today. It's mostly propagander but Dallas is very good to chat to about your specific application. They also have a website http://www.teamgreenlpg.com
The interesting thing is that the kit they supply strongly suggests to us only propane not LPG injection. Thier website lists all stockists suitable for filling vehicles.

Was talking to Dan the other day about this. I realise having the gas injecteded into the system upstream allows for good mixing. But would it be possible to have a gas jet installed just before the inlet manifold. Somewhere between Intercooler and the inlet manifold.
Then as it would be doing all its expanstion (liquid to gas), in the inlet pipe before the manifold. It would be able to cool the incoming air some more.

Would this be correct?
Also, after driving an XR6T yesterday with a glowing turbo (it was way fun making it glow). WOuld there be anychance of the gas igniting in the turbo and blowing it to hell?
Also do disel turbos glow red after a good hard run?

I saw Brett Preit(Spelling?) From LCMP had a lpg sticker on his rego plate when at the extreme winch challenge in March and was told he runs lpg on his GU diesel ute. The truck did get up and go but it blew a shit load of smoke out the exhaust.
I don't know what system he was running, any details or even if it was switched on.