Outer Limits 4x4 Board

firstly, how many people leave things the way they are for ever. Everyone wants a bit more, once they get used to what they have.

Secondly, he may not be interested in "buying" a 400hp engine, but if he can have one for no extra cost, (cam, carb and manifold would be replaced in any standard rebuild) then why wouldn't he.

CRUSHU wrote:firstly, how many people leave things the way they are for ever. Everyone wants a bit more, once they get used to what they have.

Secondly, he may not be interested in "buying" a 400hp engine, but if he can have one for no extra cost, (cam, carb and manifold would be replaced in any standard rebuild) then why wouldn't he.

Because he can't drive for shit and he couldn't handle it
(go the Nissan hemi )
Peter.

Doesnt any body have to say about chevy diesels (6.2, 6.5)?

.majti

majti wrote:Doesnt any body have to say about chevy diesels (6.2, 6.5)?

.majti

Umm no .. I didn't ask about em
Also thse motors are very uncomon in Aus and are usually only imported in small batches..

CRUSHU wrote:firstly, how many people leave things the way they are for ever. Everyone wants a bit more, once they get used to what they have.

Secondly, he may not be interested in "buying" a 400hp engine, but if he can have one for no extra cost, (cam, carb and manifold would be replaced in any standard rebuild) then why wouldn't he.

not so much havin a go at you mate, just the shite 253

bru21 wrote:

CRUSHU wrote:firstly, how many people leave things the way they are for ever. Everyone wants a bit more, once they get used to what they have.

Secondly, he may not be interested in "buying" a 400hp engine, but if he can have one for no extra cost, (cam, carb and manifold would be replaced in any standard rebuild) then why wouldn't he.

not so much havin a go at you mate, just the shite 253

As DroopyPete said .. I am not that good a driver ....

The 253 is still kind of appealing as it can rev itself silly and not fall apart.. and hopefully not use to much juice doing it ..
That said more displacement means more torque ... in theory ..

I am after something kinda tame to help keep the rest of the driveline in one piece for at least 5 mins. Prefer with an auto to help damp the shock loads on the driveline ..

A 253 will break stuff just as easily as the others, if not easier, as it doesn't have much power, and with momentum will still break stuff. A more powerful engine will have to rev less, and will place less shock load on parts

CRUSHU wrote:A 253 will break stuff just as easily as the others, if not easier, as it doesn't have much power, and with momentum will still break stuff. A more powerful engine will have to rev less, and will place less shock load on parts

You are kidding right?
Peter.

droopypete wrote:

CRUSHU wrote:A 253 will break stuff just as easily as the others, if not easier, as it doesn't have much power, and with momentum will still break stuff. A more powerful engine will have to rev less, and will place less shock load on parts

You are kidding right?
Peter.

on the other side of the coin, the 253 is a more revy motor and has alot more "sting" and will hold higher revs far better than a low end more powerful motor.....

its a much of a muchness, do u want revs and big noise or do u want low end talk....

there are far too many variants in the various motors to make such an attacking comment about one in particular...

screwy

droopypete wrote:

CRUSHU wrote:A 253 will break stuff just as easily as the others, if not easier, as it doesn't have much power, and with momentum will still break stuff. A more powerful engine will have to rev less, and will place less shock load on parts

You are kidding right?
Peter.

If he's right then we all better start fitting 500 cubic inch big blocks so we never break a single thing ever again.

Screwy_ScrewBall wrote:on the other side of the coin, the 253 is a more revy motor and has alot more "sting" and will hold higher revs far better than a low end more powerful motor.....

DEEERRRRRRRRR
so according to you a "top" end more powerfull motor still wouldnt out rev a 253 ????? It largely depends on HOW you build it and WHAT you build it for.

Jesus guys 253's have been around for ages and are a tried tested and true motor, for the application chosen here it would work and work quite well as they have done so in dozens of engine conversions in 4wd's.

The option later on could be to update to a 308 with minimal cost of having to replace much of the conversion stuff involved in the original setup "should' a more powerfull motor be required further down the track.
Even a 350 could be slotted in using much of the original conversion kit with only a small cost involved if the correct kit is chosen in the first place.

I started with a 253 in my MQ.... it went to a 308 untill it shyte, and now it sports a 350 chev. The "kit" I used is still there and it cost me less than $100 to go from trimatic pattern to turbo pattern on the bellhousing.
There are 5 4x4's around here that run 253's and they vary in size and weight from a LWB patrol to a cab chassis hilux with an exhaust tube and alloy tray.

Whilst I belive there are better options than the 253 in the lists, its still one that shouldnt be discounted just because of old wives tales or in experianced bull dropings.

Kingy

p/s
here's a pic of one of my mates rigs........
powerd by a 253

Screwy_ScrewBall wrote:

droopypete wrote:

CRUSHU wrote:A 253 will break stuff just as easily as the others, if not easier, as it doesn't have much power, and with momentum will still break stuff. A more powerful engine will have to rev less, and will place less shock load on parts

You are kidding right?
Peter.

on the other side of the coin, the 253 is a more revy motor and has alot more "sting" and will hold higher revs far better than a low end more powerful motor.....

its a much of a muchness, do u want revs and big noise or do u want low end talk....

there are far too many variants in the various motors to make such an attacking comment about one in particular...

screwy

Depends on the size vehicle you're lugging around really, I've seen well built 253's that outperformed 308's & 350's and sounded sweet doing it. No point having 700hp in a sub 2tonne vehicle if you can't get it to ground without frying tyres or pretzling driveline.

$800 difference in buying the block can add a lot of good stuff to it.

Personally I prefer the Rover 3.9, revs sweet in stock form and weighs SFA. 4.4 P76 is pretty old donk for wear & parts and I suspect a EFI 3.9 for the same dollars would crap all over it, 4.6 would be better again of course.

HSV Rangie wrote:

love_mud wrote:

HSV Rangie wrote:CHEVY

only way to go

MIchael.

why ?

Light.
great power weight.
parts both genuine and aftermarket.

easy to work on.
ect ect

Michael.

Light? Ever considered a 3.5, 3.9 or 4.6 alloy Rover V8 for real light weight, unfortunately no adaptor kits around to drop one in a Patrol.

and all the way upto 6Lt if you have the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Michael.

Rainbow Warrior wrote:

HSV Rangie wrote:

love_mud wrote:

HSV Rangie wrote:CHEVY

only way to go

MIchael.

why ?

Light.
great power weight.
parts both genuine and aftermarket.

easy to work on.
ect ect

Michael.

Light? Ever considered a 3.5, 3.9 or 4.6 alloy Rover V8 for real light weight, unfortunately no adaptor kits around to drop one in a Patrol.

The Rover V8's are pretty cool as form whatr UI have read the 3.9 efi system is very easy to set up .. and with a good exhaust they have a great sound to em ... prices on these motors are pretty cheap as well..

To many decisions perhaps I should stick to just a new pair of runners .. adidas or Nike ??

If you go rover, I would definately be looking to change the injection system in the future to get rid of some of the shite sensors.

Other than that they are good motors.

Dave

DaveS3 wrote:If you go rover, I would definately be looking to change the injection system in the future to get rid of some of the shite sensors.

Other than that they are good motors.

Dave

Never had those problems with twin strombergs & a Lumitron kit

droopypete wrote:

CRUSHU wrote:A 253 will break stuff just as easily as the others, if not easier, as it doesn't have much power, and with momentum will still break stuff. A more powerful engine will have to rev less, and will place less shock load on parts

You are kidding right?
Peter.

No. It is almost always shock loading that breaks stuff. If you are under powered, you will use shock (foot to the floor) more, and will risk more breakages. Of course this doesn't apply if you drive the same way with a big block.

What do you think makes shock loads when you floor it? The vibration off your size ten boot hitting the floor or the engines TORQUE? TORQUE. And although i regard 2 fighters as one of the best mechanical machines ever invented they arn't exactly torque monsters. Surely you are kidding....

V8Patrol wrote:

droopypete wrote:

CRUSHU wrote:A 253 will break stuff just as easily as the others, if not easier, as it doesn't have much power, and with momentum will still break stuff. A more powerful engine will have to rev less, and will place less shock load on parts

You are kidding right?
Peter.

If he's right then we all better start fitting 500 cubic inch big blocks so we never break a single thing ever again.

Screwy_ScrewBall wrote:on the other side of the coin, the 253 is a more revy motor and has alot more "sting" and will hold higher revs far better than a low end more powerful motor.....

DEEERRRRRRRRR
so according to you a "top" end more powerfull motor still wouldnt out rev a 253 ????? It largely depends on HOW you build it and WHAT you build it for.

Jesus guys 253's have been around for ages and are a tried tested and true motor, for the application chosen here it would work and work quite well as they have done so in dozens of engine conversions in 4wd's.

The option later on could be to update to a 308 with minimal cost of having to replace much of the conversion stuff involved in the original setup "should' a more powerfull motor be required further down the track.
Even a 350 could be slotted in using much of the original conversion kit with only a small cost involved if the correct kit is chosen in the first place.

I started with a 253 in my MQ.... it went to a 308 untill it shyte, and now it sports a 350 chev. The "kit" I used is still there and it cost me less than $100 to go from trimatic pattern to turbo pattern on the bellhousing.
There are 5 4x4's around here that run 253's and they vary in size and weight from a LWB patrol to a cab chassis hilux with an exhaust tube and alloy tray.

Whilst I belive there are better options than the 253 in the lists, its still one that shouldnt be discounted just because of old wives tales or in experianced bull dropings.

Kingy

p/s
here's a pic of one of my mates rigs........
powerd by a 253

Aaaahhh a man who knows what he is on about, and doesnt pretend he does.
Over the years i've had and built shitloads of 308's,twin turboed,and big horsepower naturally aspirated,a 400 chev, built 305's and 350's,had a 351 clevo,heaps of 253's. They all have good and bad points, all of them. What do i run in my hilux, a 253,yella terras, a mild cam and some compression. It does everything i want, and its legal, didnt need engineering, is reliable, runs cool and it was cheap. If i ever feel the need for more power, and i dont think i will, i'll drop a 308 in. Dont knock it till youve tried it.

V8Patrol wrote:

love_mud wrote:
......

360Hemi
Pure grunt and easilly modded to get huge amounts more, but availibility is limited as is the spares, largely used in the drag scene so watch out for flogged motors...... although they take a good flogging and come back for more
Absouletly the most grunty donk on my list but few n far between, the E55 will be rare as rocking horse shyte..... and NO your not getting either of mine !


Kingy

360 Hemi....sorry dude...no such beast?

but yeh...a 318/360 small block mopar is your touque king short of a BB.
mild good flowing head (velocity is what you want, not high end flow), mild cam and good zorst a 318 can easily make 520 to 550nm at as low as 3000rpmish in mild street form.

CRUSHU wrote:

droopypete wrote:

CRUSHU wrote:A 253 will break stuff just as easily as the others, if not easier, as it doesn't have much power, and with momentum will still break stuff. A more powerful engine will have to rev less, and will place less shock load on parts

You are kidding right?
Peter.

No. It is almost always shock loading that breaks stuff. If you are under powered, you will use shock (foot to the floor) more, and will risk more breakages. Of course this doesn't apply if you drive the same way with a big block.

right on the money. especially as the rotating mass (hence inerita) of the crank and flywheel etc is basically the same.

4.0 Litre Quad Cam from a Toyota Crown or Soarer.

Use a Hilux or whatever Auto, the 'A34#' variant, change the bellhousing and input shaft. Then you have transfers already with option of twin transfers as it is a lux one.

Light, likes revs too, not known for their torque but hey, still a punchy motor for it's size. Bubs says he can fry his 39s with ease...

the only way bubs will fry his 39s is with 2l of petrol and a match

Boopa wrote:

V8Patrol wrote:

love_mud wrote:
......

360Hemi
Pure grunt and easilly modded to get huge amounts more, but availibility is limited as is the spares, largely used in the drag scene so watch out for flogged motors...... although they take a good flogging and come back for more
Absouletly the most grunty donk on my list but few n far between, the E55 will be rare as rocking horse shyte..... and NO your not getting either of mine !


Kingy

360 Hemi....sorry dude...no such beast?

but yeh...a 318/360 small block mopar is your touque king short of a BB.
mild good flowing head (velocity is what you want, not high end flow), mild cam and good zorst a 318 can easily make 520 to 550nm at as low as 3000rpmish in mild street form.

no such thing as a 360 hemi ??? What drugs are you smoking ???

This powers the current grand cherokee WK
Powers numerous dodge trucks
powers the dodge magnum
powers the new dodge charger concept


The latest hemi is one of the few (yes there are others) that has prefected multi displacement to the point it is in many production cars at cruise it is a 4cyl and on full noise is a v8

I think there is a missunderstanding here somewhere ,
the early Chrysler V8's , which i think people are talking about -

273 S/B
318 S/B
340 S/B
360 S/B

are not hemi's ,

but a few years ago a
345 c.i. 5.7 lt S/B HEMI , was released .

But i dont think anyone was referring to that motor , i would say there talking about "Old School V8's" , therefore no Hemi.

Cheers
Hey Charger.

HEY CHARGER wrote:I think there is a missunderstanding here somewhere ,
the early Chrysler V8's , which i think people are talking about -

273 S/B
318 S/B
340 S/B
360 S/B

are not hemi's ,

but a few years ago a
345 c.i. 5.7 lt S/B HEMI , was released .

But i dont think anyone was referring to that motor , i would say there talking about "Old School V8's" , therefore no Hemi.

Cheers
Hey Charger.

ditto...old school options was the request

CRUSHU wrote:firstly, how many people leave things the way they are for ever. Everyone wants a bit more, once they get used to what they have.

Secondly, he may not be interested in "buying" a 400hp engine, but if he can have one for no extra cost, (cam, carb and manifold would be replaced in any standard rebuild) then why wouldn't he.

But give him 400hp while he's "learning" and he'll use it too, give him 200hp and he'll have more fun time with less fix it time, some of us still climb hills and dig through mud just fine with a lot less hp.

My number 1 is the mighty 340 Mopar.. Just a sweet motor in stock trim and a friggin beast when worked right and it loves nitros even better.
I also run a 308 holden V8 in my Hilux and am impressed with how it goes nice and torquey and coupled with good gearing, low tranfer gears and big tires it all makes for fun 4wheelin'

HG wrote:My number 1 is the mighty 340 Mopar.. Just a sweet motor in stock trim and a friggin beast when worked right and it loves nitros even better.
I also run a 308 holden V8 in my Hilux and am impressed with how it goes nice and torquey and coupled with good gearing, low tranfer gears and big tires it all makes for fun 4wheelin'

Muddy ... where in melbourne are you .. I would love to take a look at your setup ..