Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Philip A wrote:I love this forum!!!!
people ask a simple question and get the most far out answers

One that nobody has said but I reckon could be cheap and good is a Toyota V8 see http://www.lextreme.com/

It is light, 4 cam, powerful, modern, injected , cheap,and Kalmaker do a GM ECU for it. You can pick up Crown V8 half cuts for $1500-2000. there is a guy in Sydney who has already done it

Man - all that work for a not partiularly inspiring engine

A 215 like michael's would be nice if only I had the ability and the money

I wonder if you could put a 3.8 V6 engine and turbo on a rangie
without too much trouble - still I wonder if the turbo would make up for
their lack of early on torque (even with the lag ??)

Tom

Tom,
Marks 4x4 adaptors had a v6 com supercharged in a RR.

supposedly went well.

Michael.

yota and nissan do v8 dohc motors.problem is engine width. nissan 4.5 v8 makes 180 to 210 kw. max grunt at about 4000 rpm max power at aronnd 6-6500 depending on year.you can get them for around 1000 bucks up.good and cheap, just very wide.pipe work would be hell to do.would make a good project but you gotta rev it to get good power. oh and would any good rover owner put a yota or nissan donk up front. fun and games

cloughy wrote:By the way legally you have to compliance your 4.4 3.9 4.6 talk to your transpost authority i'm sure they'll confirm this. how bout your insurance company how bout the cost of setting up aftermarket injection few k there to lots of things forgotten about when people say its a rover its easy

No different than upgrading a 186 Kingswood to 202, just an engine number change when I had mine done. Din't need aftermarket injection, just got my carbies jetted up.

s3111107@ wrote:Thanks for all the help,

I have talked to Rangie Automotive (Joe) and thats were I got the opinion that i would be best of with a 3.9 tricked out with all the goodies to 4.7. It was mentioned that this would be a more than capable engine. I don't realy know what I want, but at the moment the car is just for everyday driving, going on surfing trips and a bit of a bush bash when funds allow for things breaking. As i'm at uni with little spare funds, I just want a reliable tough engine that I can put the boot into and it goes, whilst sounding shit hot. Later when able I would like to do a few lesser car spanking comps like the pajero or vic winch, not the car wrecking OBC unless i can afford to. In other words I want a nice tough Rangie that is capable but still everyday friendly. I could complete a conversion if it was bolt in and go, its when engine mods are needed that help is needed. I do like the sound of an LS1 rangie! Not in any rush, if something pops up the old (but still strong and reliable) engine will go. I'm not worried about over capitalising as I plan on keeping it for a very long time. Even eventually as a comp truck

The other advantage of going Rover is you can pull it out and sell it easily if it's not good enough. Pulling out a Chev or Toyota V8 to then convert to Ford or Chrysler could be a pain & waste of time & dollars.
Is the 3.9 upgraded to 4.7 cheaper than dropping a stock 4.6 straight in?

Rainbow Warrior wrote:

cloughy wrote:By the way legally you have to compliance your 4.4 3.9 4.6 talk to your transpost authority i'm sure they'll confirm this. how bout your insurance company how bout the cost of setting up aftermarket injection few k there to lots of things forgotten about when people say its a rover its easy

No different than upgrading a 186 Kingswood to 202, just an engine number change when I had mine done. Din't need aftermarket injection, just got my carbies jetted up.

Well he can't jet up his standard injection which he is currently running can he, so add some carbies to the cost hey!and getting them jetted to suit. engine number change is not quite right it works yea and noone is generally the wiser sure, but you call and ask if you can do it and they won't be sayin yes. i have all the legal paperwork about requirements here from doing numerous conversions and can tell you whats right and wrong. but i can also tell you the loop holes to get around such dramas.

I'd also like to give full credit to Adrian Cauchi at rangie automotive having had numerous dealings with him and always proving to be extremely helpful especially in sourcing harder to get bits like my last 4.11 crown wheel and pinion when there was a 7 month wait from england and none in oz

Rainbow Warrior wrote:

s3111107@ wrote:Thanks for all the help,

I have talked to Rangie Automotive (Joe) and thats were I got the opinion that i would be best of with a 3.9 tricked out with all the goodies to 4.7. It was mentioned that this would be a more than capable engine. I don't realy know what I want, but at the moment the car is just for everyday driving, going on surfing trips and a bit of a bush bash when funds allow for things breaking. As i'm at uni with little spare funds, I just want a reliable tough engine that I can put the boot into and it goes, whilst sounding shit hot. Later when able I would like to do a few lesser car spanking comps like the pajero or vic winch, not the car wrecking OBC unless i can afford to. In other words I want a nice tough Rangie that is capable but still everyday friendly. I could complete a conversion if it was bolt in and go, its when engine mods are needed that help is needed. I do like the sound of an LS1 rangie! Not in any rush, if something pops up the old (but still strong and reliable) engine will go. I'm not worried about over capitalising as I plan on keeping it for a very long time. Even eventually as a comp truck

The other advantage of going Rover is you can pull it out and sell it easily if it's not good enough. Pulling out a Chev or Toyota V8 to then convert to Ford or Chrysler could be a pain & waste of time & dollars.
Is the 3.9 upgraded to 4.7 cheaper than dropping a stock 4.6 straight in?

You can't compare the 4.7 to the 4.6,your looking at two completely applications here, the 4.7 stroker is a race motor. roller rockers etc,billet crank.these motors are extremely torquey and rev like you wouldn't believe,however the 4.6 is stock but still has an advantage being high up in the ci". it all depends on your application for the motor of course.4.6's had a lot of block problems. if you buy a motor to bolt straight back in its OEM position then youll be better off.nothing worst when you have to modify this to get to that etc etc. A simple question turns into a DOCUMENTARY,good luck with it.do what you can afford your end result would have to be better than your bolt stock 3.5 wouldn't it.
otherwise DRIVE IT HARDER!!!!
LJ

LJ_RANGYSPARES & REPA wrote:

Rainbow Warrior wrote: Is the 3.9 upgraded to 4.7 cheaper than dropping a stock 4.6 straight in?

You can't compare the 4.7 to the 4.6,your looking at two completely applications here, the 4.7 stroker is a race motor. roller rockers etc,billet crank.these motors are extremely torquey and rev like you wouldn't believe,however the 4.6 is stock but still has an advantage being high up in the ci". it all depends on your application for the motor of course.4.6's had a lot of block problems. if you buy a motor to bolt straight back in its OEM position then youll be better off.nothing worst when you have to modify this to get to that etc etc. A simple question turns into a DOCUMENTARY,good luck with it.do what you can afford your end result would have to be better than your bolt stock 3.5 wouldn't it.
otherwise DRIVE IT HARDER!!!!
LJ

Well if he's after a race motor that's a different story, I was under the impression he just wanted a good general purpose offroad/street motor. I was under the impression the 4.6 was a better block than the 3.9.

Big block Chev or Chrysler with a blower is the go and then add nitrous & Avgas for kicks.

Rainbow Warrior wrote:

LJ_RANGYSPARES & REPA wrote:

Rainbow Warrior wrote: Is the 3.9 upgraded to 4.7 cheaper than dropping a stock 4.6 straight in?

You can't compare the 4.7 to the 4.6,your looking at two completely applications here, the 4.7 stroker is a race motor. roller rockers etc,billet crank.these motors are extremely torquey and rev like you wouldn't believe,however the 4.6 is stock but still has an advantage being high up in the ci". it all depends on your application for the motor of course.4.6's had a lot of block problems. if you buy a motor to bolt straight back in its OEM position then youll be better off.nothing worst when you have to modify this to get to that etc etc. A simple question turns into a DOCUMENTARY,good luck with it.do what you can afford your end result would have to be better than your bolt stock 3.5 wouldn't it.
otherwise DRIVE IT HARDER!!!!
LJ

Well if he's after a race motor that's a different story, I was under the impression he just wanted a good general purpose offroad/street motor. I was under the impression the 4.6 was a better block than the 3.9.

Big block Chev or Chrysler with a blower is the go and then add nitrous & Avgas for kicks.

That'll get er boogyin.... i don't think he knows what he wants. i think he is scared of the prices or somting in the lines of $$$. As for the 4.6 well aparently the liners seperate from the block,haven't heard too much probs with the 3.9 good motor allround i think both the 3.9 & 4.6. i would agree with you on the general purpose idea, perfect candidates without spending big bucks would to stick with the 3.9 or 4.6, bolt straight in and cheap enough. its a good start !!

Rainbow Warrior wrote:

Well if he's after a race motor that's a different story, I was under the impression he just wanted a good general purpose offroad/street motor. I was under the impression the 4.6 was a better block than the 3.9.

Big block Chev or Chrysler with a blower is the go and then add nitrous & Avgas for kicks.

now thats too much work ever run a tape over these?Done many conversions yourself or just changed red motors (why a 202 over 186 who Knows). one good big block conversion i seen though is bloke i met with an MQ 460 big block ford with full GQ susp 5 speed and diffs awesome torque high range every where with 36 centipedes and standard gearing

cloughy wrote:

Rainbow Warrior wrote:

Well if he's after a race motor that's a different story, I was under the impression he just wanted a good general purpose offroad/street motor. I was under the impression the 4.6 was a better block than the 3.9.

Big block Chev or Chrysler with a blower is the go and then add nitrous & Avgas for kicks.

now thats too much work ever run a tape over these?Done many conversions yourself or just changed red motors (why a 202 over 186 who Knows). one good big block conversion i seen though is bloke i met with an MQ 460 big block ford with full GQ susp 5 speed and diffs awesome torque high range every where with 36 centipedes and standard gearing

Yes your right Cloughy. the fella your talking about his name is Graham Dowsett. he runs as you described and it boogies. his in the gippsland 4wd club. the 460 is a rebuilt stocky with a cam but it chirps 4th on the bitumen in the dry with the 36's. very nice setup,twin sshock front and rear. needs a fule tanker though. hows your turbo's going.

Lifts front wheels with 33's on to including susp. droop

cloughy wrote:

Rainbow Warrior wrote:

Well if he's after a race motor that's a different story, I was under the impression he just wanted a good general purpose offroad/street motor. I was under the impression the 4.6 was a better block than the 3.9.

Big block Chev or Chrysler with a blower is the go and then add nitrous & Avgas for kicks.

now thats too much work ever run a tape over these?Done many conversions yourself or just changed red motors (why a 202 over 186 who Knows). one good big block conversion i seen though is bloke i met with an MQ 460 big block ford with full GQ susp 5 speed and diffs awesome torque high range every where with 36 centipedes and standard gearing

Nah never too much work
Nah put a 186 in a Landdog, and 3.9 in a Rangie, plenty of other engine swaps, but generally a lot of niggly detail involved to get a good result, nearly any clown can drop a 202 into a Landrover using dog chain for a carby linkage.

bloody hell!

I do know what I want A rangie that goes as well as looks tuff, Don't really care what engine between the 4.7 and 4.6 but by the sounds of it the 4.6 will be better for long trips to the surf and be a little more practical, maybe even a mild 3.9. I can't argue with the crazy amounts of go a holden adds as I have driven a couple lately (thats whats got me wanting more power, before hand I was content) as I want to keep it close to original rover is the only possibility and in my opinion nothing sounds better than a hot rover v8. Obviously ill be visiting Adrian soon and sorting it out. Don't no another make that draws so many different angles when it come to conversions. word!

sorry guys been working all evening.

I've fitted the samllest chev V8 ever made the 262 because it came at the right price (nics). Pleanty of good bits bolted onto it though. Hand made by self headers performer manifold 600 vac sec holley (just to get it runninfg then will wit Rochester or econo master. have carby shop friend.) Billet HEI new oil mild cam etc. Fitted low mount alt bracket with standard RR power stearing pump in very similar spot to OEM with an adjuster off the top alt mount bracket and mount pivot of the head. Short water pump. about 100lbs more torque from bottom revs up.

Butttt big dramas have found that when trying to fire the thing yesterday for the first time it has somehow ripped the fork pivot off the bellhousing and god knows what other drama. rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Asside the LS1 motor is now getting fairly cheap so using the current chev adaptors and a standard holden programe with enough self knowledge wire the computer it won't be overly expensive. Once something like thats done you can do as Michael (HSV rangie) has said and visit your local dealer for diagnostics.

Brand new V6 supercharged create motors were selling for $3500. Bolt that in using chev patern adaptor add computer away you go for just about 5-6k capable of 215 kw's and truck loads of torque. Standard VN V6 was some 60 or 80 lbs more torque than standard 3.5.

I expect to have the conversion back on track by Saturday morning. Have to have it ready as a tow car for the V8 Super Car round in Darwin in three weeks.

Cloughy got your text just we were busy tonight.

power yes.maybe i should pull the 440 out of my charger.bolt the transfer on the full manual 727.make some pipes and im off.avgas and nitrous may be hard to get at Licola servo.650 hp rangie.its over the top but could be done. look as long as it gets you out bush even a 3.5 is ok,it just takes longer with more gear changers. now wheres the tape, time to size up that 440.haha some things are just over the top.[/quote]

I have the Toyota 1UZ-FE in my Rover.

It's got 300HP with good headers and an improved air intake. Otherwise stovk.

I'm currently chucking out the old LT77 and going to run a Torqueflite as I plan on big HP mods later.

Done sensibly it should cost less than $5,000 DIY or $7,500 done for you.

Nothing in the conversion is hard.

These things rev to 7,000rpm and produce usefull torque from 1,500rpm.

I can't get the power down on the ground with 12r15x33 Muddies as they just spin.

zuffen wrote:I have the Toyota 1UZ-FE in my Rover.

It's got 300HP with good headers and an improved air intake. Otherwise stovk.

I'm currently chucking out the old LT77 and going to run a Torqueflite as I plan on big HP mods later.

Done sensibly it should cost less than $5,000 DIY or $7,500 done for you.

Nothing in the conversion is hard.

These things rev to 7,000rpm and produce usefull torque from 1,500rpm.

I can't get the power down on the ground with 12r15x33 Muddies as they just spin.

The stock 3.9 holds at 6500rpm doing donuts on the beach and mine had usable torque from under 500rpm

swamp wrote:Go the 4.6
Rover motor
4 bolt main bearing
Heaps of low rpm torque
No conversion hassles
Cheap at the moment

4.0 is also good and cheaper

any ideas how much the 4.0 is? also, what are the prices on gearboxes? i have a pretty warn out 3.5EFI and am at the cross roads of installing another motor, or buying a diff 4b.
I dont want to spend more than maybe 3500 as if anymore, may as well buy another 4b

big blocks fit easy, i run one in mine (chev deisel), with a turbo700, did it myself cheap, runs vt commodore alt, power steer pump, a/c. motor cost a lot, but you can pick up a good runner for $5k, goes just aswell as the 308 stroker i used to have in it.
put what you want in and whatever suits the type of driving you plan to do!
rr motor is a lot lighter though so they handle better.

This might make your desision a little easier. I,ve decided to save my pennies & go for the LS1 but then again I will do all the work myself.

http://www.islandrover.is/islandrover/u ... 84kbps.wmv

Carl

save your pennys and go for a LS1 ? you mean, save UP your pennys, to buy an LS1.

how much are they? pretty expensive i would have thought. That would be a great conversion though

What about a 5.0l or 5.6l Merc V8? They would be fairly cheep now, heaps of power, fairly bullet proof, and don't the run ZF autos as standard?

Maggot4x4 wrote:What about a 5.0l or 5.6l Merc V8? They would be fairly cheep now, heaps of power, fairly bullet proof, and don't the run ZF autos as standard?

Run ZF yep.

Michael.

Bloody hell there's plenty of options to look at now, but I'm a bit of a purist and I quite like the Rover gear

I picked up a complete stroker block off a bloke in my club for a giveaway price, which had a knackerd piston and liner. I only wanted the rods, crank, etc. (I had a spare block ready to go anyway). Got a set of pistons and rods from another stroker kit (this had a busted crank) for a givewaway price as well, so I have pretty much the rest ready to go. The bits are in good nick suprisingly so they should come up okay with a good clean. Hopefully the entire rebuild will cost a few hundred and a couple of weekends to boot.

if it was a more expensive vehicle I would spend a lot more, but on an 22 year old Rangie it's a bit pointless. All I want is reasnoble power without going stupid and anyhting's better than the 3.5 slug-bucket

Good luck whichever way you go.

Trav

i think im just gonna get rid of the rangie. easiest option

orrr come on guys - you've gone and made him think he needs to sell his life long passion. cause we've all had some fun dream'n of being silly.
Smac my first rangie was an 82 4 door. When the engine went belly up I went for a rebuild with a mild increase in engine capacity. The 3.5 was bored out to 4 ltrs. The whole job cost me about 3k and the care was much more enjoyable to drive. It of course would never keep up with a hsv rangie, but it had enough to drive along comfortably and kept me happy for quite a few years.

yeah, thats not a bad idea. problem is though, buy puttin in some other V8, you are also getting rid of the damb Lucus EFI system.

i do know of a good rover mech, so ill find out from him how much to get it rebuilt etc

I have been looking into putting a Commy 3.8 V6. they have more KW and Nm than the 3.5V8, and would be cheaper to run i would think, and also, V6 Commys are pretty cheap to pick up

You sure have stimbled across a contentious issue and one that will get many responses. Yes a dunny door 3.8 v6 is likely to have more go top end and probably be cheaper to run.

In changing any engine you will have conversion issues to deal with such as making everything work (accelerater cables, wiring looms, auto kick down cables, radiator mods etc) and fit (possible relocation of engine mounts, etc). This ought to then be engineered to be legal and for insurance purposes.... HSV might be able to tell you a little more about the wiring loom side of things - I've only ever fitted a carby fed 350 to a rangie so I dont know.

If cost is a consideration then simplicity of conversion will save you there - keep it rover. You can always build on it when funds allow

If your efi system is shot and needs big $$$ spent then you might be better off buying a complete second hand 3.9 as discussed in earlier respnses and fitting that. A 3.9 is likley to be the easiest conversion to do.
A complete second hand 4.6 may stretch your budget to far. Starting with a new short motor certaily will. (Call Triumph Rover Spares and ask for a price for a complete second hand 4.6 engine with all ancillaries. Ask also how old the engine is and how many k's. Some early 4.6's had problems with becoming porus).

A 4.6 or a 4.7 stoker engine would be nice and of course will have more go, but you are starting to spend some serious dollars there.

If your ancillary components are ok consider rebuilding your engine or using a 3.9 block and transfer your ancillary components.

Consider also the following threads. PhillipA has provided some very useful information which shows what can be done to gain more power on a stock but good 3.9.

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... hp?t=49712

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... hp?t=50002

Remember that where the power is developed is as equally important as to how much. No point having a street designed engine or monster race engine that produces all it's go at 6000 rpm. Your RR being a two tonne beast will most probably spend most of it's life being driven between 1500 and 4000 rpm.

Good luck with all of your deliberations and most of all Enjoy Your Rover!

smac wrote:yeah, thats not a bad idea. problem is though, buy puttin in some other V8, you are also getting rid of the damb Lucus EFI system.

i do know of a good rover mech, so ill find out from him how much to get it rebuilt etc

I have been looking into putting a Commy 3.8 V6. they have more KW and Nm than the 3.5V8, and would be cheaper to run i would think, and also, V6 Commys are pretty cheap to pick up

If you do that make sure you put the commy gbox in too as the 1st gear is no good without it, put the v6 and the auto gbox in and get an adapter made up to fit the lt230 tcase.

Don't do it without doing this.

Tom