Outer Limits 4x4 Board

so what does this mean?

As far as 84 model springs go i figure that:

60# front springs are approx the same length as 40# eye to eye (1100mm vs 1100mm)
60# rear springs are approx 100mm longer than 40# eye to eye (1200 vs 1100mm)

40# front shackle to center pin offset longer 50mm than 60#(600mm vs 550mm)
40# front fixed to center pin offset shorter 50mm than 60#(500mm vs 550mm)

40# rear shackle to center pin offset shorter 50mm than 60# (600mm vs 650mm)
40# rear fixed to center pin offset shorter 50mm than 60# (500mm vs 550mm)

40# camber height is approx 60mm less than 60# (140mm vs 200mm)

so with 60# up front the diff would sit forward 50mm and the shackles would remain the same (using current camber height). this should get pushed forward if the camber height is reset to match the 40#

60# in the rear would move the diff back 50mm and rear shackles would get pushed out 100mm (50mm F2C + 50mm S2c?)

If the load leaf is removed and the camber height reduced to match the 40 leaves (drop 60mm), then wouldn't this potentially push the shackles out up to another 30mm? If just the load leaf is removed, would this allow the springs to bend to a camber height closer to the 40 if they were under load (eg, on the vehicle?)

Are these calculations pretty close to the mark or am I totally off track?

Thanks.

c'mon Craig, you know you want a springover.

dumbdunce wrote:c'mon Craig, you know you want a springover.

wrong shorty40!.. I can't do SOA here in QLD..

Not sure if I would if I could either.. call it personal preference..

If the load leaf is removed, and it keeps the camber height underload that would give me another 1-2" of SUA lift (over the 2" already there)... can't argue with that can you?

if the stock bj42 wheelbase something like 90inches? Then the moving of the diffs would give me about another 3" of wheelbase.. i think.. w00p!

I was talking to 40 lover

mmmmm spring over on 60's flat springs...

but on a DD..... hmm its a tough call.

but dumbdAnce will you spring me over for the once off price of $00000000000

pleeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaassssssssssseeeeeeeeee...

quite thinking about it and actually start trial fitting things!

40 lover wrote:mmmmm spring over on 60's flat springs...

but on a DD..... hmm its a tough call.

but dumbdAnce will you spring me over for the once off price of $00000000000

pleeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaassssssssssseeeeeeeeee...

hmmm $3000 drive in drive out.

hmmm team SpEcIaL drives a hard bargain!!

40 lover wrote:hmmm team SpEcIaL drives a hard bargain!!

ok I'll tell you what - for you, special price, only for today - $4000.

dumbdunce coats his work in fine silver!
hence the $$$.

sourced a FJ55 4spd front drive shaft this morning.. looks to be the goods,

compressed its about 50mm longer than rear 40series, extended, its about 100mm longer. cost $75 and hopefully doesnt need any further work.

springs are at the shop getting reset and lightened, and clamps removed..

so far things look on track for fitting this weekend.. yay!

whats the deal with fish plates ( the things your springs sit on and your u-bolts thread through)?

with the longer springs and the diff moving back a bit, it makes the current shock mounts (lower) sit too far behind and probably need to be relocated.

can anyone see any major issues in swaping the fish plates to the opposite side, and rotated 180degrees so the lower shock mount is positioned at the front of the diff?

i'm confused, i thought you were going to use 60# rear springs. In which case why are you getting them lengthened and reset? As for the spring plates i left mine standard. So my shock is at a bit of an angle. The bushing is a little stressed but it seems to work fine.

Tojo wrote:i'm confused, i thought you were going to use 60# rear springs. In which case why are you getting them lengthened and reset? As for the spring plates i left mine standard. So my shock is at a bit of an angle. The bushing is a little stressed but it seems to work fine.

I am using 60# rear springs, and they are a bit out of wak with each other (there is about 20mm diff between sides). so I got this fixed up, load leaf removed and clamps replaced with bolts.

picked them up today. the dude was pretty sceptical about what I was gonna do and sed I was playin with fire.. I tend to agree but you never know if you never try..

there is the same number of leaves in the rear, but I think the front pack is a leaf lighter, hope that just means the packs a bit flatter..

all set for trial fitting on the weekend now.. YAY! just fingers crossed it comes out good..

good luck with it all. Take a few before and after measurements and pics. I'll be interested to see how it goes without turning the hangar around and with standard length shackles. Don't be surprised if you end up having the springs in and out a few times before it's all sorted!

im doing the same 60springs in the rear of my40

i bought my 2nd springs from Turbo4t( pm him he has heaps of parts) for $60
as far as i know all i have to do is take out the load spring( smallest spring)and spring clamps....
then cut the old brakets off the chasis, weld the new brakets on( bigger eyes)chasis .....and all done ...

shorty_f0rty wrote:

Tojo wrote:i'm confused, i thought you were going to use 60# rear springs. In which case why are you getting them lengthened and reset? As for the spring plates i left mine standard. So my shock is at a bit of an angle. The bushing is a little stressed but it seems to work fine.

I am using 60# rear springs, and they are a bit out of wak with each other (there is about 20mm diff between sides). so I got this fixed up, load leaf removed and clamps replaced with bolts.

picked them up today. the dude was pretty sceptical about what I was gonna do and sed I was playin with fire.. I tend to agree but you never know if you never try..

there is the same number of leaves in the rear, but I think the front pack is a leaf lighter, hope that just means the packs a bit flatter..

all set for trial fitting on the weekend now.. YAY! just fingers crossed it comes out good..

shoulda said something earlier.

you should trial fit them before resetting... my 40 sat level, but my springs were about 20mm out side to side, some argue it's because the axle tube is thicker on the drivers side because it's where it necks down from the diff) so the perch is lower, others say it's to deal with weight bias (driver and fuel tank or whatever)

i got mine reset to even (didn't think) and now i got lean problems

hey all..

started this mod today with the help of angry racing (tm) and found out a few things.

springs pretty much bolt straight on. only had to undo a few brackets for brake line and handbrake cable.



with no weight on the springs they sit perfectly with the shackle at around 45deg.. unfortunately, the spring packs are way too soft and sit almost flat when there is no jack.. infact, the shocks compress all the way before the body starts to rise when you are trying to jack it up. there would be no way I could go camping with all my crap cos itd be scraping its bum all the way there.



tailshaft is the other issue at the moment.. I didnt really have a lot to go on when selecting a driveshaft the first time round. .. sitting flat the shaft is probably 10mm too long to be of use.. you will see above that the current driveshaft only has about 20mm left in it if that.

so.. i need to get a shorter driveshaft on monday, and also get a leaf re-added to the pack so it holds its shape under the weight of the vehicle..



the arch on the springs are practically the same.. and i would estimate that standard 60 springs would almost equate to the same lift as 2" lifted 40 springs.. and obviously allow for load carrying.. i just hope that when the leaf gets added the ride isnt as harsh as it is now..

with the diff on the springs at full droop, the shock is probably about 1inch too short at the moment, the angle with the diff shifting backwards isn't anything to worry about..




measured my wheelbase after but not before (assuming it was the stock 90inchs) and it came up to approx 92.5inchs.. more trimming is required in at the back of the guard...



things to do:
1) get proper driveshaft that fits (anyone recommend how to figure out the best way to mesure this?)
2) drive to spring shop and get leaf added to pack so it holds load fixing ride height.
3) go wheeling..

bad_religion_au wrote: shoulda said something earlier.

you should trial fit them before resetting... my 40 sat level, but my springs were about 20mm out side to side, some argue it's because the axle tube is thicker on the drivers side because it's where it necks down from the diff) so the perch is lower, others say it's to deal with weight bias (driver and fuel tank or whatever)

i got mine reset to even (didn't think) and now i got lean problems

I dont think I have much of a lean problem and when i measure the camber height both sides where teh same..

measured top of diff to bottom of bumpstop before swap and it was 150mm, after swap it was 110mm.

i'd suggest an extra leaf between the second and third leaves, as long as possible. Idealy this will be of a stronger spring rate than the 60# ones. Don't be surprised if you don't get it sorted next attempt. Chances are it will take a bit of trial and error untill its right. I became quite proficient at installing and removing spring packs when i did mine! If i get a chance i'll try to get a pic of my pack tomorrow. I can't remember exactly what leaves i ended up using, i think a combination of 60#, 70# and 40 # ones. I did have a lot to choose from though...

agreed with tojo on spring rates too, my 55 packs aren't right yet

my lean is also due to a twisted main spring on the 55 packs... i'll get it sortednext time

my 55 springs are too soft, they flex heaps and the front doesnt (before doing the work my front flexed mad)

hmm.. unfortunately i dont have a large number of spare springs at hand like yourself and will be getting a shop to re-add the removed leaf when i find a driveshaft so I can drive it there.. this should also fix the u-bolts we had to re-thread to get the nuts back on (they wont be coming off easily, so might as well get a shop to do it)..

how about a custom spring rate then? If the spring shop fits it up with the springs on the vehicle (they didnt do that the first time) they can get it to sit right and hopefully get the spring rate closer to what it needs to be.. thus allowing compression, flex laden and unladen. the shackle angle with help with more droop flex and should be ok..

At least if that doesnt work I have some fresh 60series springs that should be a bit easier to sell in their present condition..

if it doesnt work out then the old 40 springs are going back on and back to square 1.. bummer :(

i sent you a pm with a few ideas. Here's how my spring pack looks at the moment. Note how long the 3rd leaf is too. It is almost full length.

tojo.. thanks for the pm! all valuable info..

so i think I'll replace my springs this arvo if angry racing (tm) is open for service

definately seems like amore sensible way to get things done.

what's the advantage of running the 3rd leaf almost full length as well as the main leaf and the military wrap leaf?

if either of you could copy and paste the info in that PM i'd be gratefull, i'm still struggling to match my spring rates front to rear.

bad_religion_au wrote: if either of you could copy and paste the info in that PM i'd be gratefull, i'm still struggling to match my spring rates front to rear.

the gist of the pm went like this

1) recommending to replace old 40 springs back to get a working vehicle - done
2) prior to replacing 40 springs measure camber height - done (165mm)
3) after replacing 40 springs (and settling springs by jumping up and down on the rear bumper) measure bumpstop height - done (145mm)
4) go to spring place with these new measurements - to do (suggest using 75 leaf to get pack to hold shape)
5) get leaf added to pack for above measurements and re-install and reassess way the rig sits - to do
6) once bumpstop hieght of 40 springs matched, settle springs and measure for driveshaft length.
7) get driveshaft made to lenght and install
8) should now be running on new springs!
9) trim rear of guards some more


hope that helps.. and i hope i dont have to wait till payday to get the extra leaf added to the 60 springs..

stay tuned for more later this week.

well.. after a week or so of stuffing around sourcing 75 series springs and swapping leafs i finally arrived at a point where i could re-fit the new springs to the rear.. and thats what was done tonight..

before the spring swap, top of diff to bottom of bumpstop was 140mm, after it was 145mm.. so a very marginal height gain.. i need to measure that again after driving home. as it looks to have settleed a bit more and is lower..

anyway.. tailshaft went in and should be fine (had 40mm taken out and could do with about 20mm more so that it never comes under full compression at full droop).

the current shocks limit downtravel by an easy 2"s at least.. at the moment they are about an inch away from full extension when the vehicle is stationary, so i dont think they will last very long if abused..

I also think i might need some castor plates to help with pinion angle too (pic3)..

the pack seperates from the main leaf completely without any retaining bolts on (pic1).. and these clamps need to be extended by atleast 2-3inchs past the current lengths..

one last i haven't done yet is checked the load carrying capacity yet.. just wondering how the best way would be to find out?

not sure if all this is gonna get done before next pay.. but its making some progress at least..

i thought i noticed a difference straight away.. even just rolling out of the garage, gutter, etc.. it seemed a lot softer.. the ride home was great and im stoked with the result so far.. i only managed some crappy phone pics and have some digitcam pics on the way so i'll post those later..




in this last pic you can see the 3rd and 4th 75 series front springs in the pack and how they sit relative to the others. they are spaced a bit closer together is about the only thing i noticed with them.

looks good

looks like a bad acid trip but still good

the first thing i noticed when i went 55 series springs was the softness.

shocks will die very quickly, i learnt this with my 55 springs,

take a note of how the leafs are sitting at rest, i noticed on one of my packs that the leafs kept splaying out sideways, and over time this has buggered the main leaf.

looks like some good progress there. To test the load carrying, just put all your usual camping gear in! And once you have it sorted i'd be getting those spring clamps extended to the right length. I used 75 series shocks on mine because i had a new set lying around. But i think they are a bit short. On the front i used rear GQ shocks and they seemed to be the right length, so maybe they would suite the rear as well. I will try to measure my bumpstop clearance on the weekend as a comparison.

Tojo wrote:looks like some good progress there. To test the load carrying, just put all your usual camping gear in! And once you have it sorted i'd be getting those spring clamps extended to the right length. I used 75 series shocks on mine because i had a new set lying around. But i think they are a bit short. On the front i used rear GQ shocks and they seemed to be the right length, so maybe they would suite the rear as well. I will try to measure my bumpstop clearance on the weekend as a comparison.

doubt it the rear can use alot longer shock than the front

here's the measurements from mine (sitting on flat ground):
bumpstop clearance 175mm front, 180mm back
distance between shock mounts 520mm front, 570mm back