Outer Limits 4x4 Board

RAY185 wrote:

dumbdunce wrote:I say rear, but hey, it's a 40, both the diffs are the same, it's only a couple of hours work to swap them, so stick it in the front, go attack your favourite rock hill, go home, swap them over, attack the same track with it in the back, make an objectove comparison, then decide if the front or rear is better.

Ultimately that is what I see myself doing. I was just very interested in hearing when and why it is better in either end. So far I am convinced that it is more beneficial in the rear, but I am waiting for someone to paint me a picture of when a front is more effective than a rear.

front is more effective when you have good traction under at least one front wheel and no traction under either back wheel - eg driving out of a pond, or driv ing from mud onto rocks. sometimes front-only is good for climbing rocks if you still have both back wheels on the ground.

an easier way to do the comparison is to find a mate with a twin-locked truck and drive the same, hard track with front locker only, then rear locker only, to see which is best - but the rsult is only valid for that truck on that trail. different situations demand different lockings. just save up and get both, you know you want to.

I say rear also for a few reasons,

1. the weight transfer reason, .
2. a locked rear is better for circle work
3. easier on the C/V's
4. easier on the arms (assuming your 40 has no power steer)
5. heaps better for spraying a bogged mate with mud when both wheels are "giving him the goop"


one other point to consider, if you plan to do both, it is only a matter of timeing, so take into acount any other work that needs doing at the same time, ie, if your rear wheel bearing need replacing lock the rear while you are in there, or if the swivle housing bearings are a bit sus lock the front, it will be cheaper in the long run (labour wise) to work on one axle at a time.

option C, airlocker in the front and weld the rear
Peter

That is my afterthought Pete.

After my original post about locking the rear I thought about locking the front and welding the rear. A new diff isn't that expensive if you get defected.

I still say that 2 air lockers are far better than any other type of diff lock, it just comes down to money.
Peter.

customhilux wrote:i'd go front even if ya didn't have an lsd

Ill second that....there was a test done on a loose hill, and front locker only went better than rear only.....plus its a good chance to do the c/v joints and wheel bearings again.
If you have discs, get some late hilux (+1990) or 75 series (+1990)callipers for better brakes while there...they have bigger pistons.
Andrew

dow50r wrote: If you have discs, get some late hilux (+1990) or 75 series (+1990)callipers for better brakes while there...they have bigger pistons.
Andrew

Or while you are at it, get some Brembo's to fit a Jaguar,
Peter.

Ray,
Driving a Surf with an open front diff, I'd say front any day. I've seen cars transformed with a front locker. Up a hill, due to gravity, you'll almost always lose drive in the front first.... Where gravity pushes down on the rear, which helps that end. The rear of a live axle equipped truck will grenerally articulate more than the front anyway. Just use the handbrake a touch to stop the rear wheels spinning. With a typically loose Yota LSD, this trick works for me.

A locked front will pull you up even if one wheel is airbourne. A wheel freespinning and grabbing traction coming back down will break a front CV way before anything goes bang in the back.....

Two options:
1) One locker only? Lock the front

2) Locked both ends? Mechanical (say 4wd Systems, or Lock Right) locker up front, THEN I'd put the Air locker out the back.

My 2 cents......

bigpat wrote:Up a hill, due to gravity, you'll almost always lose drive in the front first....

1) One locker only? Lock the front

I agree. Look at Ray's avitar - one front wheel in the air...

I put my locker in the front - but my LSD works, too.

Scott

crankycruiser wrote:

bogged wrote:I have front and rear, and the way the dude set it up is that you cant use the front without the rear...

Is this normal?

Its is normal..

I changed mine so I could use which ever one I want..

Easy to do

In which case you should have tried a few hills with just front or just back and be able to tell us which works best, I've always wanted to try it, but never had 2 lockers.

Also remember what works best for a wagon may give different results on a trayback ute.

For me it appears my LSD in the front helps more than the locker in the rear of my dual cab GQ in many situations. Twin LSD was good but the rear locker is better again when engaged.

I can definately get further up a hill in 4WD with the front LSD but locker off than in 2WD with the locker on.

Rear does mean you have a lot less chance of breaking anything, you could leave it engaged for a whole hill, rather than having to turn it on and off when you want to turn the steering more than 1/2 lock.
If you have manual steering it would be heavy and perhaps unsteerable at times. I had a Lockright in a manual steer Landrover with only 7.50x16, but it would rip the wheel out of your hands. A detroit was a bit smoother.

Your bringing back bad memories now....i had a 60 with lockrite front, and once the wheel was ripped out of the hands, resulting in a piece of bark coming off the tree 1 inch thick by about 2 foot long...lucky i had ARB side rails aswell...the bullbar bent as i glanced the tree....
Go the airlocker brother.....either end will do....
Andrew

Great to see this much feedback. I've got it booked in on Tuesday for the rear locker and I hope to lock the front sometime at the end of the year. I'll see how she tests out on some tracks and if I feel that I have more use for it in the front I will swap it then. Thanks again for all the responses.

I would rather put it in the rear because it's more fun. burnout, mud, fishies, and then up hill weight is on rear, most times you need it is up hill, if centers are the same i would put the lsd in front and locker in rear much more fun.

the simple way to look at it is put it in the end with least travel because it will be the end getting more wheels off

BACON wrote:the simple way to look at it is put it in the end with least travel because it will be the end getting more wheels off

ie the front in most rigs

BACON wrote:I would rather put it in the rear because it's more fun. burnout, mud, fishies, and then up hill weight is on rear, most times you need it is up hill, if centers are the same i would put the lsd in front and locker in rear much more fun.

Hmmm, burnouts, I suspect rhe ARB isn't as strong internally as some standard diffs so try to avoid that unless the road is a bit wet beforehand.