Outer Limits 4x4 Board

mickyd555 wrote:ok, all this talk about tube benders...........the one that i was refering to from QLD trade tools. is it just a waste of time, or is it just gonna be harder to use?? its only $300 odd dollars, but i dont wana waste $300 if its useless. id rather save up and spend a few more bucks, but i dont think id spend $3000.................

apparently cheezy made his first cage with a supercheap bender

Hoonz wrote:

mickyd555 wrote:ok, all this talk about tube benders...........the one that i was refering to from QLD trade tools. is it just a waste of time, or is it just gonna be harder to use?? its only $300 odd dollars, but i dont wana waste $300 if its useless. id rather save up and spend a few more bucks, but i dont think id spend $3000.................

apparently cheezy made his first cage with a supercheap bender

so does that mean it would be worth a try, i do have patiiance, but i have only ever bent copper tube........but at the same time, i dont want to waste money on something that wont do the job i want it to. i still have to teach myself how to do it

i dunno me being me i'd rather spend the extra and get some thing decent
ours is gonna pay itself off cause we're gonna do some work on the side

you guys are better off asking customhilux as hes the one who deals
enerpac gear

Ha Ha!

From the Blackwoods web site:

ENERPAC
BENDER PIPE SET HAND 15-50MM STB-101H


Blackwoods Part No:
08135508

Manufacturers Part No:
STB101H


Lifting and Materials Handling







Long Product Description:
Fast, safe, wrinkle-free bending; easy to operate; portable, lightweight - made from high grade aluminium; accurate bends every time - all sets include an angle gauge for accurate, repeatable bending; flexible and versatile - the hydraulic pump and cylinder is easily removed for use in other applications (lifting, pressing and spreading); all sets include a sturdy steel storage case; available with either hand, air or electric powered pumps or sets, can be ordered without hydraulics for use with existing Enerpac equipment.


Product Attributes: Manufacturers No. STB101H
Country COUNTRY OF O'GIN TO BE ENTERED
Standard Pack Quantity 1.0
Unit of Measure EACH


It doesn't say what formers it comes with and the go Bakers guys couldn't tell me either.

The price I quoted earlier was from Bakers so you could get better I would imagine, their prices are never really that sharp.

mickyd555 wrote:ok, all this talk about tube benders...........the one that i was refering to from QLD trade tools. is it just a waste of time, or is it just gonna be harder to use?? its only $300 odd dollars, but i dont wana waste $300 if its useless. id rather save up and spend a few more bucks, but i dont think id spend $3000.................

i have bent up two buggies with a $140 bender, one with a square chassis to start with and the other one full tube. i bought two good quality dies - 32nb and 25nb at about $100 each. (the dies that come with the bender are useless, throw them away) i bent, notched and welded the whole of the last chassis in about 15 hours. not nearly as quick as what you could do it with a speedworx or similar, but for someone who is going to build one car a year or so they give awesome results for minimal $ outlay.

my bender is the same as the supercheap one i think, i didn't buy it from supercheap, but i think it is the same animal. the dies are dawn dies from blackwoods. the other thing you have to do is machine the rollers out a bit to closer match the diameter of your tube so it doesn't dent it. with a bit of thought you can get perfect 180deg bends in the 32nb stuff. the 25nb stuff you can only get to about 130-140deg before the frame of the bender gets in the way.

Carlton can you take a couple of pics of what you have done to or bender for us all to see.I would love to be able to get bend anywhere in that angle.

dave wrote:Carlton can you take a couple of pics of what you have done to or bender for us all to see.I would love to be able to get bend anywhere in that angle.

to bend between say 100deg & 180deg:

mark the centre of your bend.

then mark (from memory) 250mm either side of that.

bend on the two outside bends first to just past 45 deg. if you are bending to a full 180deg bend these to about 60deg.

then bend on the centre mark untill you have your complete angle.

the measurement that i can't remember is easy to work out when you are looking at the bender. it has to be big enough that the two outside bends don't overlap, but small enough that they do overlap with the centre bend to create one continous arc. it will vary a bit with your desired complete angle. i am pretty sure it was 250mm for 180deg.
i had a piece of scrap with a 180 in it i bent to show someone, i would take a pic of it, except i cut it up to make the guard for my trans pan. a 180 bend in 32nb with the dawn dies gives you a hoop about 400mm wide outside to outside.

ok guys, been flat out at work,

i should be able to get a price next week,

enerpac $3500 plus, , the dawn 15 to 50mm is on special till the end of the month for $1220 plus, enerpac 50 mm die $300 plus, looks like supercheap is the way to go....

I just bought a "Borum" cheap chinese bender.
Cost me a bit over a couple of hundred bucks.
They said they used to have a problem with the crappy dies kinking the pipe but have swapped to large radius dies now that dont.
We had a Dawn die in the shop and puting them side by side they looked almost identical.

I did a test bend with some old galv pipe I had in the shed and it did a beutifull smooth bend with the only problem being the 2 little dints from the rollers.

Is there an easy way to stop that?
Different rollers?
Machined rollers?
Sleeve over pipe?

Paul.

i've heard putting a bit of copper or alloy strip there, can fix that.

ausyota wrote:I just bought a "Borum" cheap chinese bender.
Cost me a bit over a couple of hundred bucks.
They said they used to have a problem with the crappy dies kinking the pipe but have swapped to large radius dies now that dont.
We had a Dawn die in the shop and puting them side by side they looked almost identical.

I did a test bend with some old galv pipe I had in the shed and it did a beutifull smooth bend with the only problem being the 2 little dints from the rollers.

Is there an easy way to stop that?
Different rollers?
Machined rollers?
Sleeve over pipe?

Paul.

Make new rollers. I tried the sleeve trick and it only seemed to work with lighter wall tube, heavier wall tube the sleeve dented and so did the workpiece.
I used delrin bar stock for the rollers and have a set of rollers particular to each size tube, dawn formers, and a cheapo bow and arrow bender from A Mans Toyshop.
Works well. No denting of the tube from the rollers and the Dawn formers work well, occasional scoring on the side of the bend is their only drawback.
Only complaint is that the frame and baseplate of the bender deforms a little with heavy wall thickness and when doing Carltons trick to get 189 deg bends (the loading on the two rollers is not identical and the base plate cocks over a bit making repeatability an issue)
Bender was ~$300, dawn dies were $90-150 depending on size, Delrin stock ? not much. You will need access to a lathe for the formers, a wood lathe and skilled operator will suffice.

NAM also posted a link to a site with plans for a draw around bender at one stage, can't remeber the name though. Migh be an option for those who can fab.

Cheers
Daryl

yeah rorty #2 bender. one of my derelicted projects. i still have the plans and most of the parts machined up waiting for assembly.

right now im using a dawn die. i don't bother with the little dints from the rollers.

hey all

whats people thoughts on bramley bender
uses alloy dies comes with 1/2'' - 2'' six forming dies in total

12 ton ram

$900.00 retail from total tools sandgate

save up and buy a TUBE bender nope a pipe bender or if you get a pipe one just buy a cheap $200 one from total tools etc and some decent dies

a tube bender wont do pipe,

also tube is measured on the OD
and pipe is measured on the ID.

Not an Enerpac, but maybe food for thought in terms of doing it yourself?
http://www.blindchickenracing.com/Tools ... bender.htm

Cheers
Daryl

customhilux wrote:a tube bender wont do pipe,

also tube is measured on the OD
and pipe is measured on the ID.

Really?? We use a Tube bender on Pipe all the time. Bends Perfect. You just need to get the right Formers.

We use a Speedworks Air/Hydro bender.

Hoonz wrote:i dunno me being me i'd rather spend the extra and get some thing decent
ours is gonna pay itself off cause we're gonna do some work on the side

you guys are better off asking customhilux as hes the one who deals
enerpac gear

If you are even paying a 1/4 of the price that has been quoted on this enerpac bender then you are wasting your money. The $200 Supercheap one will do exactly the same job with a couple of Dawn Formers and a little more Work.

If you plan on doing a lot of Roll Bar work or general tube work and are happy to pay this sort of money then buy a decent tube bender. Dont waste this sort of money on something that wont do the right job.

RUFF wrote:

Hoonz wrote:i dunno me being me i'd rather spend the extra and get some thing decent
ours is gonna pay itself off cause we're gonna do some work on the side

you guys are better off asking customhilux as hes the one who deals
enerpac gear

If you are even paying a 1/4 of the price that has been quoted on this enerpac bender then you are wasting your money. The $200 Supercheap one will do exactly the same job with a couple of Dawn Formers and a little more Work.

If you plan on doing a lot of Roll Bar work or general tube work and are happy to pay this sort of money then buy a decent tube bender. Dont waste this sort of money on something that wont do the right job.

why won't it do the job properly?

Hoonz wrote:

RUFF wrote:

Hoonz wrote:i dunno me being me i'd rather spend the extra and get some thing decent
ours is gonna pay itself off cause we're gonna do some work on the side

you guys are better off asking customhilux as hes the one who deals
enerpac gear

If you are even paying a 1/4 of the price that has been quoted on this enerpac bender then you are wasting your money. The $200 Supercheap one will do exactly the same job with a couple of Dawn Formers and a little more Work.

If you plan on doing a lot of Roll Bar work or general tube work and are happy to pay this sort of money then buy a decent tube bender. Dont waste this sort of money on something that wont do the right job.

why won't it do the job properly?

From what I have heard the bow and arrow style bender like the enerpac will always cause more deformation to the pipe (eg 12% say) than a dedicated tube bender (eg 3%) like the speedwerx.
The less deformation would have to mean a greater strength rollcage?
The ultimate in benders is a mandrel bender uses a slug inside the pipe for very nice bends indeed but looking at $30k for one of those.

RUFF wrote:

customhilux wrote:a tube bender wont do pipe,

also tube is measured on the OD
and pipe is measured on the ID.

Really?? We use a Tube bender on Pipe all the time. Bends Perfect. You just need to get the right Formers.

We use a Speedworks Air/Hydro bender.

ok i'll change it, a tube bender will do pipe, with the right formers.

a tube bender u are talking about, is a drawn style bender.

i might have a price by thursday, but i still see it being not worth it,

i'm buying a cheapo, at the moment, getting dawn dies, and machining up new rollers.

RUFF wrote:

customhilux wrote:a tube bender wont do pipe,

also tube is measured on the OD
and pipe is measured on the ID.

Really?? We use a Tube bender on Pipe all the time. Bends Perfect. You just need to get the right Formers.

We use a Speedworks Air/Hydro bender.

Stuff Enerpac, save up and get a proper bender, we use a Wallace Coast autobender, just enter the angle 0-120 degrees you want on the digital display and it does it, only about $25K.
Pity we don't have a pipe die set on it and it's permanently set up to bend panel door track.

Rainbow Warrior wrote:

RUFF wrote:

customhilux wrote:a tube bender wont do pipe,

also tube is measured on the OD
and pipe is measured on the ID.

Really?? We use a Tube bender on Pipe all the time. Bends Perfect. You just need to get the right Formers.

We use a Speedworks Air/Hydro bender.

Stuff Enerpac, save up and get a proper bender, we use a Wallace Coast autobender, just enter the angle 0-120 degrees you want on the digital display and it does it, only about $25K.
Pity we don't have a pipe die set on it and it's permanently set up to bend panel door track.

thats ok, i'll just have a bullbar, that looks like a door door track,

So The cheap and reasnable way to go is , the super cheap with a dawn die that can be purchsed at blackwoods .

The next question is What sort of money are you guys paying for the material ,
say the equiviant of the 1.5 x .120 for a length thats around 38x3mm ?


Larry.

slosh wrote:The ultimate in benders is a mandrel bender uses a slug inside the pipe for very nice bends indeed but looking at $30k for one of those.

i've heard mandrels bends are weaker than compression bends as the material on the outside of the bend is forced to stretch. compression bends are stronger as the inside of the bend is... compressed.

RUFF wrote:

Hoonz wrote:i dunno me being me i'd rather spend the extra and get some thing decent
ours is gonna pay itself off cause we're gonna do some work on the side

you guys are better off asking customhilux as hes the one who deals
enerpac gear

If you are even paying a 1/4 of the price that has been quoted on this enerpac bender then you are wasting your money. The $200 Supercheap one will do exactly the same job with a couple of Dawn Formers and a little more Work.

If you plan on doing a lot of Roll Bar work or general tube work and are happy to pay this sort of money then buy a decent tube bender. Dont waste this sort of money on something that wont do the right job.

so why won't this bender do the job right?

i think he's saying that u can't get 2 bends tight together like ya can with a drawn bender(tube bender).

RUFF wrote:

customhilux wrote:a tube bender wont do pipe,

also tube is measured on the OD
and pipe is measured on the ID.

Really?? We use a Tube bender on Pipe all the time. Bends Perfect. You just need to get the right Formers.

We use a Speedworks Air/Hydro bender.

Got my Speedworks Air/Hydro bender today WOW these are great I should have got one years ago. money well spent for accuracy