Outer Limits 4x4 Board

CRUSHU wrote:Gee, air must flow different to liquid.... or this calculator is wrong.

http://www.envireng.co.uk/calcs/pflowapp.html

Mate seriously can you take this crap somewhere else, try to stick to the subject, you're not helping!

Cossie wrote:I've seen 60 series safari snorkels fitted to GQ's in the past. A bit longer than the GQ one but still looks good.

Thanks Cossie appreciate that, will check it out.

beretta wrote:

CRUSHU wrote:Gee, air must flow different to liquid.... or this calculator is wrong.

http://www.envireng.co.uk/calcs/pflowapp.html

Mate seriously can you take this crap somewhere else, try to stick to the subject, you're not helping!

Are you bloody for real?? You don't think it is appropriate in this section, to discuss the flow characteristics of pipes, when talking about snorkles?

The calculator shows that the 4" pipe outflows the 2 x 3" pipes, and if it is wrong, I want to know why.

The 60 series snorkle goes in on the back side of the wheel arch simillar to a mq the nm pajerogo goes in just behind the indicator similar to gq, both have the right height from ram cap to roof to match the patrol snorkels.

I've got a 60s to fit to one of the patrols I have the intake comes in between the battery box n the brake master, The nm pajero will come in where the standard washer bottle is.

Which ever snorkle you choose I'd match the one fitted to the right hand side for length down the gaurd.

As far as flow rates the flow chart gives inconsistant results when you change the roughness figure recalculate then change it back and recalculate it again with original settings, but as it states it is for approximate flows and as there is only a marginal flow difference it is close enough

2x the dia = 4x the flow is a fomular for hydrolics used in the feild
Thanks CRUSHU for putting the time in to find the flow calculater it would be a useful tool for someone who needs to work out required flow for a custom induction system. I was not putting you down just offering a bit of information but as the amount of pipe n bends alters air speed that is why I'd like to see dyno prints of the two varients

Sorry for any miss understanding and the long post

Also the snorkel pictured is off a sixty you can tell from the slight gap at the flare bouble its only about 6mm for the first 10mm on the bottum front corner hard to pick unless your looking for it otherwise they are a perfect fit even the guard shape is right but you'll have to make a different top bracket to mount to the pillar as the 60s mounts to the front of pillar n gq mounts to the side of the pillar

Have fun drilling holes mate n let us know how you go n which snorkel you use

Surely the 2 x dia = 4 x Flow is a rough guide?

Also, the inner roughness will slow the flow down, as will bends etc. Also round pipe will flow more than square pipe. So a square snorkle, with 3" round fittings, possibly flows less than a 3" pipe with mandrel bends. Also the bends are sharper with a snorkle.

BTW the inner roughness will loose flow, but may in fact increase power due to tubulence, and achieving a better mixture.

As a rough guide, the flow is proportional to the cross-sectional area of the pipe. (That is where the double/four times concept comes from).

So a 3" pipe has a 7.1 square inch area, while a 4" pipe has a 12.6 square inch area.

This means that two 3" pipes do flow more than a single 4" pipe based on the rule of thumb - about 12% more.

There's a complicating factor, which is that there is some turbulence etc and this increases when you have numerically more pipes. So I have no idea what the difference would be but it would be less than 12%.

There would be other factors too, for example having a single snorkel tee'd to both throttle bodies could conceivably create a resonance sort of flow effect (the air velocity due to bank A makes bank B's air flow easier)... or it might be disruptive instead. You simply couldn't say without trial and error on a dyno.

Hence overall I would still say a single 4" pipe is roughly about as good as two 3" pipes, and putting two snorkels on is for looks. Which is strange because having two snorkels looks stupid

What Chimp said.


"CRUSHU" That calculator is for water flow in pipes under the influence of gravity which is different. But all of the roughness and bends info you gave is still on the mark.

BTW the inner roughness will loose flow, but may in fact increase power due to tubulence, and achieving a better mixture.

Yes but the swirling air then enters the air filter and is changed again. Also the roughness in pipes does not affect air flow as much as it does a fluid with a higher density such as water (to a certain extent)

The roughness affecting fuel mixtures only is relivant it the valve ports where the fuel is atomised, turbulane to a point helps fuel mixture in a head too much gives hot spots on pistons n poor flow, as this is after the air filter doesnt matter.
If you look down the front on picture you can see the side profile of the 2 safari's is quite low, the other factor is under bonnet room for tubing.
Giant racing's extended swb runs twin turbo 1uz with twin 3" tube snorkels set into the guards there are pics of his truck on o/l if you wanna look them up, also Ludachris runs single 4" mite find pictures on Queensland whinch challenge site
Check um out n c what u think