Unfortunately, I do not have the old leaves anymore! I think they went in the bin!
Does anyone have any old bits of leaf springs with the hangers still on they could give me
that would fit into my exsisting pack? Can you buy 2 leaves with the hangers on from a spring place and
just put them into my front leaf pack?
Joel,
I reckon the slip shaft you have will be too long.
I heard off a driveshaft dude that if your shaft is too long, this is heaps worse as it can
screw up your transfer case when the shaft bottoms out?
Is this true? Can anyone confirm?
Cheers,
Bart
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Front Drive Shaft Issues on Modified Leaf-Sprung Toyos
Moderators: toaddog, Elmo, DUDELUX
Joel,
I reckon the slip shaft you have will be too long.
I heard off a driveshaft dude that if your shaft is too long, this is heaps worse as it can
screw up your transfer case when the shaft bottoms out?
Is this true? Can anyone confirm?
If the shaft binds on compression something has to give and if the diff wont go foward the transfer will have to go back either way is messy.
I´m sorry to see all you guys thinking like doctors: concentrating on symtoms instead of causes!
There is a very simple cure for this driveshaft dilemma: Shackle reversal.
Get your shackles up front and you won´t need half the slipjoint movement you do with the shackles at the rear.
Just take care not to get your caster angle all wrong. Wedges between spring pads and springs would take care of that.
Of course everything has its drawbacks; in this case its the fact that the wheels would have to move slightly forward under suspension compression instead of backwards like they do now, thus following the terrain better.
But this more theory than anything you would notice while driving.
Check with someone who has a truck somewhat like yours, but with the shackles up front.
Another advantage with the shackle reversal is that you don´t get nearly as severe an angle on the U-joints.
Clamps on the leaves: I´ve welded clamps onto leaf ends, using stainless steel sticks, it holds.
Drilling the leaves is easiest with sharpened concrete bits. They go through spring steel like going through butter, almost.
Do the shackle reversal and your problems will be over.
Ingthorsson.
There is a very simple cure for this driveshaft dilemma: Shackle reversal.
Get your shackles up front and you won´t need half the slipjoint movement you do with the shackles at the rear.
Just take care not to get your caster angle all wrong. Wedges between spring pads and springs would take care of that.
Of course everything has its drawbacks; in this case its the fact that the wheels would have to move slightly forward under suspension compression instead of backwards like they do now, thus following the terrain better.
But this more theory than anything you would notice while driving.
Check with someone who has a truck somewhat like yours, but with the shackles up front.
Another advantage with the shackle reversal is that you don´t get nearly as severe an angle on the U-joints.
Clamps on the leaves: I´ve welded clamps onto leaf ends, using stainless steel sticks, it holds.
Drilling the leaves is easiest with sharpened concrete bits. They go through spring steel like going through butter, almost.
Do the shackle reversal and your problems will be over.
Ingthorsson.
if you don´t know its impossible, you just might do it!
Ingthorsson,
Havn't seen a front shackle setup running on any hiluxs
in australia. Have you got some photos of one?
How does it flex with the shackles up front?
Wouldn't having the diff move forward under compression
lead to more CV breakages?
And if front shackles are the go, how come all the big 40 series
reverse their shackles and put them from the front to the rear of
the spring??
Cheers,
Bart
Havn't seen a front shackle setup running on any hiluxs
in australia. Have you got some photos of one?
How does it flex with the shackles up front?
Wouldn't having the diff move forward under compression
lead to more CV breakages?
And if front shackles are the go, how come all the big 40 series
reverse their shackles and put them from the front to the rear of
the spring??
Cheers,
Bart
The Lux is back. New and Improved v2.0!
Shackle reversal in a hilux will result in a loss of approach angle. Thats why you see 40 series with shackle reversal (moving shackles to the rear)
Shackles at the front should also make the vehicle a little better under brakes on the road as the front will be less likely to "dip".
Greater chance of busting CV's, not sure on that.
Shackles at the front should also make the vehicle a little better under brakes on the road as the front will be less likely to "dip".
Greater chance of busting CV's, not sure on that.
[quote="Harb"]Well I'm guessing that they didn't think everyone would carry on like a big bunch of sooky girls over it like they have........[/quote]
I´m sorry but I don´t have any pictures of a front shackled Hilux.
For all I know it has never even been done.
This was just something that came into my mind as an obvious solution to your driveshaft problems.
If approach angle is that vital I don´t see any real alternative other than coils and a four-link setup. That is of course also considered to be the best suspension setup that can realistically be built.
A four-link with the lateral arms the same length as your driveshaft, U-joint to U-joint, would, IN THEORY, eliminate the need for a slip-joint.
In real life however, everything moves and twists and flexes, so you need one, although you´d only be using a centimetre or two of slip-joint movement.
Shackles up front shouldn´t affect your flex, and in a four-link it would depend on the design of the setup.
Good luck,
Ingthorsson.
For all I know it has never even been done.
This was just something that came into my mind as an obvious solution to your driveshaft problems.
If approach angle is that vital I don´t see any real alternative other than coils and a four-link setup. That is of course also considered to be the best suspension setup that can realistically be built.
A four-link with the lateral arms the same length as your driveshaft, U-joint to U-joint, would, IN THEORY, eliminate the need for a slip-joint.
In real life however, everything moves and twists and flexes, so you need one, although you´d only be using a centimetre or two of slip-joint movement.
Shackles up front shouldn´t affect your flex, and in a four-link it would depend on the design of the setup.
Good luck,
Ingthorsson.
if you don´t know its impossible, you just might do it!
I did some more stirring in my grey matter and came up with this:
There may be a solution for you that would let you keep your shackles at the rear: Track bars with Heim-joints. They would stop your diff from twisting, which it certainly does with your soft springs and that is big part of your problem.
The trick is to place the front end of the track bars correctly:
Place your truck on stands under the front axle, remove one wheel. draw an imaginary line between the spring eyes, draw another line, perpendicular to the first one, up through the center of the diff and across the first one. Where the two imaginary lines cross is point A. Two thirds of the way from point A to the front spring eye is point B, and that is where you place the front end of your track bar.
Point B is the instant center of leaf spring movement, as far as can be determined. Any other placement of track bar front end causes binding in the suspension.
I believe the stock Hilux track bar is designed along this theory.
The Heim-joints would let you keep the flex in the suspension.
You already have a high-pinion diff, so the last resort would be to loosen up and twist the diff center up, or forward, to let the driveshaft meet the diff at a lesser angle.
This would probably be quite an expensive operation if you can´t do it yourself............
Good luck, again,
Ingthorsson.
There may be a solution for you that would let you keep your shackles at the rear: Track bars with Heim-joints. They would stop your diff from twisting, which it certainly does with your soft springs and that is big part of your problem.
The trick is to place the front end of the track bars correctly:
Place your truck on stands under the front axle, remove one wheel. draw an imaginary line between the spring eyes, draw another line, perpendicular to the first one, up through the center of the diff and across the first one. Where the two imaginary lines cross is point A. Two thirds of the way from point A to the front spring eye is point B, and that is where you place the front end of your track bar.
Point B is the instant center of leaf spring movement, as far as can be determined. Any other placement of track bar front end causes binding in the suspension.
I believe the stock Hilux track bar is designed along this theory.
The Heim-joints would let you keep the flex in the suspension.
You already have a high-pinion diff, so the last resort would be to loosen up and twist the diff center up, or forward, to let the driveshaft meet the diff at a lesser angle.
This would probably be quite an expensive operation if you can´t do it yourself............
Good luck, again,
Ingthorsson.
if you don´t know its impossible, you just might do it!
Ingor,
I don't have a High pinion diff dude. Just the standard luxie housing.
What would you bolt the front track bar to? There aint alot of room
up front. Have you got any pics of a hilux with a front track bar?
Has anyone tried putting a front track bar on a lux here on outerlimits?
A track bar up front would be good, cause I was getting a bit of wrap
while up at stocktons dunes on the weekend. I can feel/hear it when you
hit the tire tracks at high speed or coming up a dune at 40KMs.
Will the clamps sort out a bit of the wrap? Cause clamping the springs
will be alot easier than making up a track bar for the front.
But I am happy with the flex now and don't want to limit that too much
if possible.
cheers,
Bart
I don't have a High pinion diff dude. Just the standard luxie housing.
What would you bolt the front track bar to? There aint alot of room
up front. Have you got any pics of a hilux with a front track bar?
Has anyone tried putting a front track bar on a lux here on outerlimits?
A track bar up front would be good, cause I was getting a bit of wrap
while up at stocktons dunes on the weekend. I can feel/hear it when you
hit the tire tracks at high speed or coming up a dune at 40KMs.
Will the clamps sort out a bit of the wrap? Cause clamping the springs
will be alot easier than making up a track bar for the front.
But I am happy with the flex now and don't want to limit that too much
if possible.
cheers,
Bart
The Lux is back. New and Improved v2.0!
Here is a pic of the shaft at rest
when the truck is on flat ground.
Also I have included a pic of the diff at rest too so y'all can
see the angle of it. To me it would help out alot to
rotate the diff a bit. The angle of the rear diff is sweet, just the
front that worries me. Is this a problem? Or is this a normal angle?
How hard is it to rotate the front diff a little?
Cheers,
Bart
when the truck is on flat ground.
Also I have included a pic of the diff at rest too so y'all can
see the angle of it. To me it would help out alot to
rotate the diff a bit. The angle of the rear diff is sweet, just the
front that worries me. Is this a problem? Or is this a normal angle?
How hard is it to rotate the front diff a little?
Cheers,
Bart
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The Lux is back. New and Improved v2.0!
Sorry. I took another look now at the high pinion diff pic on the thread and yeah, sure, it wasn´t yours. But that would be a step in the right direction.
Rotating the knuckles, or diff center, is quite an operation, nothing to be tackled unless you know what you´re doing.
Track bars should of course be fastened to some brackets on the frame, I´d go for the stock mounting position for starters. You may have to experiment a bit.
I still think you should seriously consider swapping your shackles to the front, that would take care of the driveshaft problem and is not a complicated operation.
The traction killing axle wrap is another matter. It is actually easier to make track bars that work if the shackles are at the rear........... compromise, compromise.
The way to cure both problems is four link!
You get to keep your long-travel maxiflex suspension with your driveshaft in place and your diff won´t flex.
Do a search on four link / five link and track bars, and I´m sure some ideas will pop up.
Ingthorsson.
Rotating the knuckles, or diff center, is quite an operation, nothing to be tackled unless you know what you´re doing.
Track bars should of course be fastened to some brackets on the frame, I´d go for the stock mounting position for starters. You may have to experiment a bit.
I still think you should seriously consider swapping your shackles to the front, that would take care of the driveshaft problem and is not a complicated operation.
The traction killing axle wrap is another matter. It is actually easier to make track bars that work if the shackles are at the rear........... compromise, compromise.
The way to cure both problems is four link!
You get to keep your long-travel maxiflex suspension with your driveshaft in place and your diff won´t flex.
Do a search on four link / five link and track bars, and I´m sure some ideas will pop up.
Ingthorsson.
if you don´t know its impossible, you just might do it!
Don`t do a shackle reversel on a lux,Cruisers only had`em for breaking and for steering cause they weigh so much,Stick with the shackles at the rear cause you get give when you approach rocks and logs and way more comfy on road
[url=http://downunder4x4.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1650]86 Hilux[/url]
and a 84 extra cab
If Rocks Had P^ssies Our Lives Would Be Perfect :D...
and a 84 extra cab
If Rocks Had P^ssies Our Lives Would Be Perfect :D...
Update time...
I got a call from a mate at around midday on Saturday so I had to go
wheeling. But with this shaft issue, this was going to be a problem.
I quickly went up to Bunnings and bought 4x metal hose clamps.
I fitted these up, 2 on each side.
When my mate arrived, he had an old exhaust clamp which I used as a
substitute for one of the metal hose clamps on the drivers side.
The hose clamps on the passenger side snapped after about 30 mins of
wheeling
, but the exhaust clamp and hose clamp on the drivers side
stayed on fine all trip long.
This seems to have worked cause I didn't pop it out all day long and
I put it up on heaps of steep step-ups. And lots of slippery clay hillclimbs at 5000 RPMs.
I'm thinking, cause the front diff centre is fairly close to the drivers side
leaf spring, when the drivers side drops down and away from the gbox,
then twists (from leaves opening) this is what spits the shaft out.
On compression, the diff centre will be closer to the gbox as the diff moves
backward under compression, so the need for the clamps is not as
important in keeping the shaft in?
Based on this, do you think I need the other clamp on the passenger side?
Without it, I get as much travel as possible, while still keeping the front
shaft intact??
Cheers,
Bart
PS I'll post pics up tonight
I got a call from a mate at around midday on Saturday so I had to go
wheeling. But with this shaft issue, this was going to be a problem.
I quickly went up to Bunnings and bought 4x metal hose clamps.
I fitted these up, 2 on each side.
When my mate arrived, he had an old exhaust clamp which I used as a
substitute for one of the metal hose clamps on the drivers side.
The hose clamps on the passenger side snapped after about 30 mins of
wheeling
, but the exhaust clamp and hose clamp on the drivers sidestayed on fine all trip long.
This seems to have worked cause I didn't pop it out all day long and
I put it up on heaps of steep step-ups. And lots of slippery clay hillclimbs at 5000 RPMs.
I'm thinking, cause the front diff centre is fairly close to the drivers side
leaf spring, when the drivers side drops down and away from the gbox,
then twists (from leaves opening) this is what spits the shaft out.
On compression, the diff centre will be closer to the gbox as the diff moves
backward under compression, so the need for the clamps is not as
important in keeping the shaft in?
Based on this, do you think I need the other clamp on the passenger side?
Without it, I get as much travel as possible, while still keeping the front
shaft intact??
Cheers,
Bart
PS I'll post pics up tonight
The Lux is back. New and Improved v2.0!
Sorry,
been a while since last post,
been flat out at work.
Got some pics for ya of my booty spring clip,
and what happens when you try and use hose clamps
to hold leaf pack together! I had 2 on there and this
was the only one left hanging onto the pack after
I flex up!
Anyways,
Can I bodgey up exhaust clamps like in the 1st pic?
or will this damage the leaf cause the bottom of the clamp
only touches in 2 places due to the semi circle in the exhaust clamp?
Can I buy a replacement clamp, similar to the one pictured so that it
is flat on both sides and not just the top side?? ...does that make sense?
look sat the pics and you will see what I mean...
Cheers,
Bart
side of the leaf?
been a while since last post,
been flat out at work.
Got some pics for ya of my booty spring clip,
and what happens when you try and use hose clamps
to hold leaf pack together! I had 2 on there and this
was the only one left hanging onto the pack after
I flex up!
Anyways,
Can I bodgey up exhaust clamps like in the 1st pic?
or will this damage the leaf cause the bottom of the clamp
only touches in 2 places due to the semi circle in the exhaust clamp?
Can I buy a replacement clamp, similar to the one pictured so that it
is flat on both sides and not just the top side?? ...does that make sense?
look sat the pics and you will see what I mean...
Cheers,
Bart
side of the leaf?
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The Lux is back. New and Improved v2.0!
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