Outer Limits 4x4 Board

heres another and look jim no hands or over zealous helpers

roc box wrote:heres another and look jim no hands or over zealous helpers

I stand corrected. Just one question though. How much width to Hilux diffs add over stock sierra diffs?

This would add stability over the intended build with sierra diffs wouldn't it?

I too had 3/4 rear, even wacky shackles in the front. My car was as stable as hell on 36's. However the suspension DID load and unload on angles. I also had MQ patrol diffs.

Standard zook diffs will provide less unsprung weight, this combined with a higher centre of gravity (SPOA) and 3/4 rear would most likely result in an "exciting" car to drive. Not saying that it would be undrivable just that the drivers skills would ned to be up to it. Chances are that if he/she is asking these questions they should work on their driving skills and vehicle knowledge before modifying their car so heavily.

2" OME springs with Rears Up Front (RUF) and a body lift with minimal trimming should clear 33's OK. If you think you need more clearance build a bash plate and slide over things.

NSW guys drive more rock than we do in VIC based on general wheeling so extra clearance may be of benifit. How much ground clearance do you need in Tassie?

no offence taken jim just a little fun and yes they are wider and alot heavier too .mine doesnt unload uncontrolably maybe because i used front main for 1/4 spring not rear

roc box wrote:no offence taken jim just a little fun and yes they are wider and alot heavier too .mine doesnt unload uncontrolably maybe because i used front main for 1/4 spring not rear

I did much the same with concern for a droopy rear end. Used a military wrap type pack of two springs to create more resistance. It limited down travel less than conventional 3/4 but seemed to work ok.

mine flexes real well when articulating it just doesnt seem to unload im really happy with the way it works

what does loading/unloading mean?

zookjedi wrote:

droopypete wrote:

zookjedi wrote:

crankycruiser wrote:castor? don't know but if your worried about castor for on road handling for get a "Z" link

Please explain this further.
Peter.

meaning if your going to the trouble of cutting and rotating your diff knuckles for castor for better road manners than you wouldn't than put on a "z"link with the induced bump steer etc , i ran a zlink for 1.5 years till i up graded to a snake high steer set up (due to brakeage due to big rock bad spotter) the zlink is driveable but not as confident inspiring as the histeer feel

Sorry Jedi, but it is still not clear (I don't meen to sound like a smart arse, I just don't get what you are saying)
are you saying that a Zlink will influence caster?
Peter.

DEEV8 wrote:what does loading/unloading mean?

Unloading of the suspension is basically where the weight is removed from the suspension.

Loading is the opposite.

Eg a vehicle with 3/4 rear when going down a steep decent may "pick up" the rear, therefore unloading the suspension.

Some tube buggies use winches to pull the suspension down to save this from happening easily.

you mean unloading is when the suspension is at full droop and the wheel is off the ground?

the easiest way might be to say it like this.imagine a patrol with super soft suspension on a side slope imagine how that soft suspesion would let the car lean over really badly and be floppy ie loose thats unloading on the high side and loading on the low side and rolling down the hill hope this helps

holy sh!t!....... I GET IT!!!

thanks for the explanation

so the idea of the hilux/patrol diffs is not only strenght but heavier and harder for the soft/unstable springs and shackles and 3/4's to pick up when it tries to flop...?

I don't really want to overcomplicate things, but I would suggest that the "stability" and extra weight of larger diffs are only by products of people fitting off the shelf diffs from heavier cars just to cheaply and easily gain more strength. Itis easier and cheaper to fit hilux or patrol diffs to a sierra than it is to build a strong diff out of parts that does not have the IMHO excessive weight.

Adding unsprung weight has a great deal of unhelpful effects on the car, including reduced performance. Sure, the COG will go down, aiding stability in certain situations, but the heavier diffs still have to be pushed (or pulled) up and out of obstacles.

I like to think of heavy diffs on a light car as "the tail wagging the dog"- once you have a heavy diff down in a hole or get it bouncing on a ledge, it will heavily influence the rest of the car often making it less drivable or elegant.

It is not by accident that you no longer see heavy diffs in rockcrawling - there's no rockwells, 14bolt GMs etc- no it is all 9"s, alloy centresections and knuckles etc. Unsprung weight leads to crappy behaviour.

droopypete wrote:

zookjedi wrote:

droopypete wrote:

zookjedi wrote:

crankycruiser wrote:castor? don't know but if your worried about castor for on road handling for get a "Z" link

Please explain this further.
Peter.

meaning if your going to the trouble of cutting and rotating your diff knuckles for castor for better road manners than you wouldn't than put on a "z"link with the induced bump steer etc , i ran a zlink for 1.5 years till i up graded to a snake high steer set up (due to brakeage due to big rock bad spotter) the zlink is driveable but not as confident inspiring as the histeer feel

Sorry Jedi, but it is still not clear (I don't meen to sound like a smart arse, I just don't get what you are saying)
are you saying that a Zlink will influence caster?
Peter.

no im just saying why go all out and get the castor correct and still have your steering hindered by running a "zlink" i understand that getting your castor correct will improve on road manners even with a zlink but it seems like a lot of trouble to go to if your not going to go all the way and get histeer so it handles %100, the difference between a zlink and histeer is very noticable.

i stand corrected on the 3/4 setup , just the pics i have seen the top leaf(on chassis) is far from flat , obliously they must be using a heavier leaf

cheers Jai

Gwagensteve wrote:I don't really want to overcomplicate things, but I would suggest that the "stability" and extra weight of larger diffs are only by products of people fitting off the shelf diffs from heavier cars just to cheaply and easily gain more strength. Itis easier and cheaper to fit hilux or patrol diffs to a sierra than it is to build a strong diff out of parts that does not have the IMHO excessive weight.

Adding unsprung weight has a great deal of unhelpful effects on the car, including reduced performance. Sure, the COG will go down, aiding stability in certain situations, but the heavier diffs still have to be pushed (or pulled) up and out of obstacles.

I like to think of heavy diffs on a light car as "the tail wagging the dog"- once you have a heavy diff down in a hole or get it bouncing on a ledge, it will heavily influence the rest of the car often making it less drivable or elegant.

It is not by accident that you no longer see heavy diffs in rockcrawling - there's no rockwells, 14bolt GMs etc- no it is all 9"s, alloy centresections and knuckles etc. Unsprung weight leads to crappy behaviour.

dont agree stability =performance zooks diff just dont cut the mustard on the terrain i drive they might be ok in vic .ive found the extra weight is a bonus for settling the car on steep rutted hills and up big ledges[less bounce ]besides the lux diffs dont weigh that much more than zook shite i wont be swapping back any ime soon.only my 2c worth

roc box wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote:I don't really want to overcomplicate things, but I would suggest that the "stability" and extra weight of larger diffs are only by products of people fitting off the shelf diffs from heavier cars just to cheaply and easily gain more strength. Itis easier and cheaper to fit hilux or patrol diffs to a sierra than it is to build a strong diff out of parts that does not have the IMHO excessive weight.

Adding unsprung weight has a great deal of unhelpful effects on the car, including reduced performance. Sure, the COG will go down, aiding stability in certain situations, but the heavier diffs still have to be pushed (or pulled) up and out of obstacles.

I like to think of heavy diffs on a light car as "the tail wagging the dog"- once you have a heavy diff down in a hole or get it bouncing on a ledge, it will heavily influence the rest of the car often making it less drivable or elegant.

It is not by accident that you no longer see heavy diffs in rockcrawling - there's no rockwells, 14bolt GMs etc- no it is all 9"s, alloy centresections and knuckles etc. Unsprung weight leads to crappy behaviour.

dont agree stability =performance zooks diff just dont cut the mustard on the terrain i drive they might be ok in vic .ive found the extra weight is a bonus for settling the car on steep rutted hills and up big ledges[less bounce ]besides the lux diffs dont weigh that much more than zook shite i wont be swapping back any ime soon.only my 2c worth

Often its a story of compromise. Zook diffs keep the car light but in many cases unreliable due to breakages.

The stronger diff alternative is often heavier, resulting in more unsprung weight, therefore a heavier car resulting in lower power to weight etc etc. The stronger diff however does result in a vehicle that can be pushed that bit harder.

zookjedi wrote:no im just saying why go all out and get the castor correct and still have your steering hindered by running a "zlink" i cheers Jai

Now that I understand and agree with
Peter.