DANA v GU !!!

[ISUZUROVER]

OK - here are some specifications (anyone want to help with nissan diff specs?):

DANA 60
Ring gear - 9.75"
Pinion Diameter - 1.626"
Pinion Splines - 29
Ring gear bolts - 12x0.5"
Tooth width - 1.437"
Ratios available - 3.54:1 - 7.17:1
Axle splines available:
1.7" 40 spline (not stock - all others from factory)
1.5" 35 spline
1.31" 30spline
1.31" 16 spline


Diff specs - NISSAN H260
Ring gear - 10.25"
Pinion Diameter -
Pinion Splines -
Ring gear bolts -
Tooth width -
Ratios available - 3.5:1 - 4.88:1 ?
Axle splines available - see below

Diff specs - NISSAN H230
Ring gear - 9.2"
Pinion Diameter -
Pinion Splines -
Ring gear bolts -
Tooth width -
Ratios available - 3.5:1 - 4.88:1 ?
Axle splines available - see below

ALL rear axles SEMI FLOATING ?
GQ Patrol 88-98 cab chassis rear 1.51" 37spline
GQ Patrol 88-98 front 1.26" 31spline
GQ Patrol 88-98 rear 1.31" 33spline
GU Patrol 98 on diesels rear 1.51" 37spline
GU Patrol 98 on front 1.26" 31spline
GU Patrol 98 on rear 1.31" 33spline

Comparing diff centres:
So, on paper, a Nissan H260 diff centre should be about the same strength as (or possibly slightly stronger than) a D60. But AFAIK the H260 is rear only, so a D60 front should be stronger than a H230 front.

Comparing rear axles:
The nissan 37 spline rear axles would be expected to be about the same strength as D60 35 spline Semi Floating axles, but D60 Fully Floating 35 spline axles should be stronger than nissan 37 spline axles, since they are about the same diameter, and the FF axles do not have to undergo bending loads like a SF axle does.

Comparing front axles:
No contest... stock D60 35 spline (1.5") with 1480 U-joint should be heaps stronger than the nissan 1.26" CV stubs.

[Wendle]

if money is no object you would be mad not to go for the 60's with ctm's and big alloy shafts. i am sure i could break my unimog stuff easier than i could break that stuff.

if you want bang for your buck get gq stuff and wait for the cr-mo stuff to come out for them. the rear is a very reliable unit and seems to be able to take a flogging, the front is nice and stout in the centre, but the cv/stub shaft can be a bit of a joke sometimes. i saw someone on the weekend break a haultech treated gq cv on flat ground because the lugs on the tyre (39.5 TSL ??) were wrapped around the lower link. this wasn't at much more than idle.
then sometimes they'll take a flogging and not break for ages. you'll have them loaded up at full lock, bound up in a hole, waiting for the bang, and it will just keep driving.

[ljxtreem]

I dont give a shit what size the shaft and stub axel sizes are, has enyone actuly done the tests on the quality of the steel.

Y are there so many artermarket bits for D60, stock not strong enough?


Mock

[N*A*M]

i am so waiting on cr-mo gq bits!

[scout392]

so the stock h260 rear is stronger then the stock d60, i belive so.Even the hd d60 has 35 spline axle vs the 37 nissan ones. and most d60 are 30 spline same as my d44 which are good up to 35 inch tyers.

the real question is the front, my vote D60.

eric

[-Richo-]

What are the price differences between stock d60 and gq/gu axles? id assume d60 is going to be quite a bit more.

[MissDrew]

GU is stronger then GQ.

Cheezy buggy runs GQ, the mav runs GU.

[ISUZUROVER]

I dont give a shit what size the shaft and stub axel sizes are, has enyone actuly done the tests on the quality of the steel.

Y are there so many artermarket bits for D60, stock not strong enough?

Mock

Bobby longfield in the US (together with some toyota guys) tested a 1.31" 30 spline toyota axle from 4340, which failed at about the same point that a STOCK DANA 35 spline front axle failed.

But there is no way nissan would be using anything close to 4340. And there are plenty of upgraded D60 axles for not much money.

I don't know why the nissan guys aren't fitting longfield hilux or cruiser CV's. It has been proven the CVs would fit, and they are way stronger than any other similar size CV on the market at the moment.

[ISUZUROVER]

Even the hd d60 has 35 spline axle vs the 37 nissan ones.

The splines don't really matter since the axles are the same diameter, nissan just uses a finer spline. 35 spline dana FF axles should be stronger than the nissan 37 spline, since nissans have semi-floating axles.

[bad_religion_au]

GU is stronger then GQ.

Cheezy buggy runs GQ, the mav runs GU.

thats where i went wrong, i thought he threw all the mav bits under the buggy

[ISUZUROVER]

What are the price differences between stock d60 and gq/gu axles? id assume d60 is going to be quite a bit more.

D60 stock and aftermarket axle and UJ prices ($US). What do stock Nissan axles and CVs cost new??? note spicer parts are the stock parts.

Spicer inner axle shafts (Other applications available, please call for price)
GM Long inner (spicer): $106.00
GM short inner (spicer): $92.00
Dodge Short inner (15.97"): $110

Superior 4340 Chromoly D60 inner:
Any Short side: $335.00
Any Long side: $375.00

Yukon 4340 Chromoly D60 inner:
any D60 front: $175 each or order a pair and the price is $325 per pair

D60 Stub shafts:
Spicer GM 30 spline: $64.00
Spicer GM 35 spline: $69.00

Yukon GM or Ford 35 spline: $115.00

Superior 4340 Chromoly GM or Ford 35 spline: $225.00

Axle ujoints:
Greasable Spicer 5-733X: $42.00
Non Greasable Spicer 5-806X: $39.00
CTM 300M alloy ujoint: $269.00

[POS]

Y are there so many artermarket bits for D60, stock not strong enough?


Mock

Is this a serious question?

[-Richo-]

What are the price differences between stock d60 and gq/gu axles? id assume d60 is going to be quite a bit more.

D60 stock and aftermarket axle and UJ prices ($US). What do stock Nissan axles and CVs cost new??? note spicer parts are the stock parts.

Spicer inner axle shafts (Other applications available, please call for price)
GM Long inner (spicer): $106.00
GM short inner (spicer): $92.00
Dodge Short inner (15.97"): $110

Superior 4340 Chromoly D60 inner:
Any Short side: $335.00
Any Long side: $375.00

Yukon 4340 Chromoly D60 inner:
any D60 front: $175 each or order a pair and the price is $325 per pair

D60 Stub shafts:
Spicer GM 30 spline: $64.00
Spicer GM 35 spline: $69.00

Yukon GM or Ford 35 spline: $115.00

Superior 4340 Chromoly GM or Ford 35 spline: $225.00

Axle ujoints:
Greasable Spicer 5-733X: $42.00
Non Greasable Spicer 5-806X: $39.00
CTM 300M alloy ujoint: $269.00

Standard i was refering too, but good info nonetheless. The availablity of nissan stuff surely must be greater than dana in Australia? If pricing for standard gear was close id go d60 for sure.

What vehicles sold in Australia could you get d60's out of?

[Strange Rover]

I think a lot of people dont realise what gets broken in competition or what some people are actually running.

I know of a GU front axle that broke 3 times on seperate occasions in one single competition. Thats is start the competition and break something, fix it and then on another stage break something again, fix that then on another stage.........three seperate times. This was on a GU nissan running 35s driven very hard. Basically this guy could break the front axle at will. Guys out there that are running a GU front axle and carnt break it arnt trying very hard.

Onto cromolly CVs - CVs made out of 4340 and 300m. Now these things are very strong and there are a couple of different brands out there. Ive seen 30 spline 4340 front axles get twisted running these CVs and Ive seen these CV become totally rooted after a single WE Rock competition. Basically if you are planning to use this sort of setup then you will be running a very strong front setup. As I said before these sorts of CVs are - strong enough to twist a 4340 cromoly front axle - strong enough to explode asian free wheeling hubs at will - strong enough to strip genuinine 80 series drive flanges at will - all without breaking the cromoly CV. The down side to all this strength is that the CV is very soft so if you want to be able to drive as hard as you need to without breaking anything during a competition then you have to start with brand new cromoly CVs at the start of every competition cause by the end of the competition they are totally distorted and totally stuffed.

Now to relate this back to the GU front axle.....the GU front axle has components that are alot smaller than 1.31in 30 spline and the material used is alot weaker than 4340. So a GU front axle is shiat loads weaker than a toyota axle running 30 spline 4340 front axles with 4340/300M cromoly CVs. Nobody can logically argue this point!!!! The size of components used in a GU front axle are smaller than 1.31in and the material used is weaker than 4340. So in the scheme of things a GU front axle isnt strong at all. The only advantage of a GU front axle is that they use a very big CV so that it less prone to fatigue and lasts longer at moderate loads.

So given this if you put a GU front axle into some of the current competitive WE Rock buggies that run 30 spline 4340 axles and 4340/300m CVs then the truth is a GU front axle would be lucky to last a couple of stages.

So you see POS was telling the truth

Now of course if you drive gently you could probably make a GU front axle last a whole season but if you drive gently you wont be competitive.

Sam

[ISUZUROVER]

you have to start with brand new cromoly CVs at the start of every competition cause by the end of the competition they are totally distorted and totally stuffed.

I thought beebee was getting more than one comp out of his longfields???

So given this if you put a GU front axle into some of the current competitive WE Rock buggies that run 30 spline 4340 axles and 4340/300m CVs then the truth is a GU front axle would be lucky to last a couple of stages.

And how many stages would y0u get out of a D60 front (in the same rig) running stock spicer parts - since you are one of the few people in OZ that has broken one.

[Strange Rover]

you have to start with brand new cromoly CVs at the start of every competition cause by the end of the competition they are totally distorted and totally stuffed.

I thought beebee was getting more than one comp out of his longfields???

So given this if you put a GU front axle into some of the current competitive WE Rock buggies that run 30 spline 4340 axles and 4340/300m CVs then the truth is a GU front axle would be lucky to last a couple of stages.

And how many stages would yu get out of a D60 running stock spicer parts - since you are one of the few people in OZ that has broken one.

There are other people that drive alot harder than Beebee that use longfields.

And I have never run or broken a d60.

The thing with a dana 60 with u joints is that they dont fatigue. So as long as you dont start spinning caps, or elongating the ears or crushing the needle rollers then they will last for ever. To do any of these things you basically just got to over load the joints and then these things will happen. If you load it harder then you will break the ears or the joint.

Now what I have seen of the cromolly CVs is that they are very very strong on a one time overload strength test - they have been shown to be stronger than a 4340 cromo 30 spline axle (both in the bobby long strength test and in competition use that I have seen). But the CV is still quite soft so that even at moderate loads that arnt anywhere near large enough to break the CV these loads will distort the CV and the CV will start clicking and when they start to click then they are well on there way to breaking. As an example the rental that BZ drove at the WE Rock finals started with Haultech CVs that had been in the rig since the Cruza park WE Rock competition previously. The plan was to swap out these CV for some cromolly ones before the finals but this didnt happen. BZ broke one of the haultech CVs in the comp and swaped in a cromolly CV and didnt break anything else for the rest of the competition. At the end on the competition the haultech CV doesent click at all and I would imagine would still be quite strong. The cromolly CV clicks really, really badly and I wouldnt be confident that this CV would last another competition. Now dont get me wrong - the cromolly CV is still a stronger CV than the haultech CV in an outright strength test its just the cromolly CVs are alot softer and dont last as long at moderate loads (at loads that arnt big enough to break either CV)

Now to give another example of a fully built D60 with CTM 300m shafts and CTM 300m joints. Now to my knowledge nobody has broken one of these in a front axle application during competition use - and this is with guys running 150kg of lead shot in each front tyre flogging the piss out of the rig all year, season after season. The mount logan moon buggy (driven by Jonny G i think) ran with dana 60 and 300m shafts for 2 seasons and didnt break anything - no broken crownwheels, no broken shafts, no broken ujoints - nothing. You carnt compare anything nissan or toyota with CV to this sort of strength.

Tracy Jordan ran 4 seasons in old 40 series cruza (the old school one with rear steer and 42s) on stock d60s steer axles front and rear without breaking anything - although now days guys break stock d60s in competition use cause they now drive so much harder.

Sam

[ISUZUROVER]

And I have never run or broken a d60.

I thought the US buggy that you own/owned has a pair of HP D60's and you broke an axle when you were competing over there.

I agree with what you are saying about the material hardness. I would prefer a D60 front axle over a toy/nissan front with cro-mo CVs any day.

[Strange Rover]

And I have never run or broken a d60.

I thought the US buggy that you own/owned has a pair of HP D60's and you broke an axle when you were competing over there.

Oh yea - forgot about that one. That one was more of a case af the ears were elongated because it didnt have any steering stops and the joint had been binding which stresses the crap out of the joint. So the joint was a bit sus before I even started.

Sam

[Shorty40]

I dont see what the issue is

Last time I checked, the Yanks weren't knocking down our doors to get a hold of GU diffs

[POS]

I dont see what the issue is

Last time I checked, the Yanks weren't knocking down our doors to get a hold of GU diffs

[Bighazza]

Same as water in the tyres. Keep the weight down low

ok

so is it just a sh!tload of lead on the rim then?

[Strange Rover]

Same as water in the tyres. Keep the weight down low

ok

so is it just a sh!tload of lead on the rim then?

Nope - actual lead shot (like what comes out of a shot gun) rolling around in hte bottom of the tyre.

It gives you weight down low but it also acts as a dead blow hammer to stop the tyre from bouncing when it hit things.

Sam

["CANADA"]

Same as water in the tyres. Keep the weight down low

ok

so is it just a sh!tload of lead on the rim then?

no its lead shot in the tires....

[Wendle]

I don't know why the nissan guys aren't fitting longfield hilux or cruiser CV's. It has been proven the CVs would fit, and they are way stronger than any other similar size CV on the market at the moment.

i would have done this by now if i still owned anything with nissan axles in it. using 80 series cruiser drive flanges it is very nearly a bolt up job. the only problem is to make it worthwhile you need to get inner axles custom made out of better material, as you can't buy used inners without buying the cv's, and you would be breaking lots of stock inners.

[uninformed]

hey Sam, so from what you are saying: u joints (d60 of course) are the go for comp work.

after reading what you are saying about the chromo cv's being soft, how would they go in a DD. i know they will be plenty strong enough for the little wheeling i do but will they just wear out super quick?

cheers, Serg

[grimbo]

Don't know enough about the dana's but you are kidding right You don't think a GU diff (be it front or rear) would last a few stages in WEROCK or similar

Put it this way. You give me a rig with a GU front axle for 10 minutes and I bet I can break a CV. Bind the front tyre in a hole, turn the steering wheel to full lock and drop the clutch at max revs in reverse and I reckon it will break.

If I gave you the same rig with a built dana 60 in the front I dont think you would break it in a year. A built dana 60 is just that much stronger.

Just check out the US rockcrawling guys with the dana 60 front axles with CTM joints and CTM 300m 35 spline shafts. These guys wheel the crap out of their rigs all year at competitions and wheel even harder in between comps and never break all year. They also have over 150kg of lead shot in each front tyre and they still dont break.

Sam

Ok but you are comparing a stock GU to a built 60. How do they compare stock vs stock. Unfortunately the supplies of built 60s in Australia are still a little behind the availability of GUs. If going by what Cheezy has said maybe with the extra aftermarket support the GUs will be closer to the built 60s and I'd imagine a lot more accessible to most

[Guy]

so how long is it until we start seeing GU housings with D60 ball joint style knuckles on em (Like the Dedenbear one's).. And who will be running the new bobby Long super CV's built for dana 60's that allow up to 45 degrees of angularity.


The GU diff is way more common in Aus therefore cheaper .. I am guessing it is considerably lighter as well.. The plate steel housings also lends itself to easy modifcation...


Would it be feasible to run the D60 knuckle on a GU diff ???

[1MadEngineer]

I thought beebee was getting more than one comp out of his longfields???

Yep so far we have got 8 months out of them. But it's my job to make sure he doesn't bust them, i have to be the voice of reason most of the time. I am sure if we were to be chasing every point in a comp we would be busting them all the time. ATM we use the AISIN hub as a fuse, and like sam said we can blow them and front diff centers at will. So yes we do carry spare chromo cv's and axle's.

[redzook]

bobby has got new 30 spline longs out now that are suppusedly (SP?) ment to last a fair bit longer and they are stronger again

[ljxtreem]

Y are there so many artermarket bits for D60, stock not strong enough?


Mock

Is this a serious question?

Wow, you guys know all the answers, but still no comps or tests, just speculation

Mock