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Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:48 am
by AussieCJ7
lockers
without them 4 wheeldrive turns to 2 wheel drive them to no wheel drive
even if ALL the tyres have very very little traction if you can keep them moving there is a chance one of them will grab something and move you forward
there is plenty of conditions that even the best off road tyre will loose traction then you back to driving only the wheel that has not traction
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:22 pm
by shakes
lockers
last trip through toolangi(rocky track and then the bog holes further along)
i've got 2"OME shox n springs, cooper ST's which measure a true 31" and a factory locker and a mate had 4susp, 37" muds (IIRC swampers) and no locker both gq shortys and other than diff scrapings and a bone jarring landing on the big step
the difference between the 2 trucks was pretty negliagable other than i had a more comfortable ride there and home
same trip a CJ7 with a 5ltr windsor and BRAND new 34" jt2's had to get snatched outa a couple of the holes
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:20 pm
by bogged
dwaynes wrote:tyres for me
build the skill unlocked then go locked
Well put. Also learning the limits of you rig before going locked will be of benefit in the long run.
There are numerous variables as well as to which I would go.
- suspension
- car
- weight and height of rig
- engine HP
- LSD or not
- more....
IMWO lockers take a lot of skill out of driving... without them, you have to pick your line much more precise as the line will be different to the locked truck which can usually take any line.. You also have to drive better, clearer and be smoother.
With them, you can point and shoot a lot more. Not so much in the comp shit that Ruff etc do, but weekend stuff I mean.
you did it easy on 35's against a locked 32's - how much had to do with driving skills, or experience?
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:31 pm
by dirtyGQ
bogged wrote:dwaynes wrote:tyres for me
build the skill unlocked then go locked
Well put. Also learning the limits of you rig before going locked will be of benefit in the long run.
There are numerous variables as well as to which I would go.
- suspension
- car
- weight and height of rig
- engine HP
- LSD or not
- more....
I would choose tyres because all the traction control in the world doesn't help if you can't get it to the ground what is the point of spinning on all four tyres ?
IMWO lockers take a lot of skill out of driving... without them, you have to pick your line much more precise as the line will be different to the locked truck which can usually take any line.. You also have to drive better, clearer and be smoother.
With them, you can point and shoot a lot more. Not so much in the comp shit that Ruff etc do, but weekend stuff I mean.
you did it easy on 35's against a locked 32's - how much had to do with driving skills, or experience?
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:32 pm
by dirtyGQ
don't kinow how that happened ?
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:54 pm
by Ruffy
Geez tuff one. Too many variables. As stated before, more mud in vic make tyres a better option. For hills and rocky stuff lockers are the go.
From experience i had tyres long before my one lonesome locker. The difference tyres made was immense. One locker is noticable but not as much as the tyres. Of course that is only one locker though. And we all know two lockers are 5 times better than one.
My choice would be to stuff the rules of the debate and have both!!!
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 7:05 pm
by -Scott-
Tyres. If they don't grip, it doesn't matter how many wheels are driving.
Scott
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 7:22 pm
by bruiser
Yes but you generally have one tyre with more traction than the other. For those with the big tyres only you are generally driving on the ones with the least traction. An all terain with a good grip is better than a awesome mud with a shit grip.
simple as that.
2 lockers = 4WD
none =2WD
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 8:24 pm
by bigbluemav
Lockers, without a doubt.
From a GQ with a tight LSD, then to 35's, then to double locked. Without a doubt lockers made the biggest difference. The tyres gave more ground clearance and the suspension was already pretty flex, but in rutted tracks, particularly wth the front, the wheel doesn't have to leave the ground for the tyre to break traction.
An open diff will ALWAYS find the wheel with less grip, to break traction. No matter what tyres you've got.
Also, lockers mean you don't have to rely so much on momentum on some obstacles. The same can be said of tyres, but to a far less degree.
On rocks, forget about it, lockers hands down.
I've recently put Marks gears in the t/fer case and the ability to go slow (more control) is another unbelievable improvement to an already competent package.
Yes I'm a qld'er and no we don't have the mud that Mexico has. Question is general and I've answered it froma general perspective.
My $ .02 worth.
Regards
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 8:37 pm
by Rainbow Warrior
I got to to say marginally, tyres, cause I've seen double lockered 4WD's going nowhere on a wet grass slope while mudtyred open diff guys made it, having said that a jeep on 38" A/T's was also going nowhere on the same spot. With twin LSD's & M/T's it was a pushover for my Patrol to tow those in need.
If it's slippery, lockers with A/T's may be as useful as having your axles up on blocks, 4 wheels chocked off the ground.
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:05 pm
by Pauwolf
I say lockers, my double locked 80 series with ATs goes where a MT rig without lockers could go
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:18 pm
by -Scott-
bruiser wrote:Yes but you generally have one tyre with more traction than the other. For those with the big tyres only you are generally driving on the ones with the least traction. An all terain with a good grip is better than a awesome mud with a shit grip.
simple as that.
2 lockers = 4WD
none =2WD
Ah, don't you love hypotheticals?
Who said you've got all-terrains to play with? What if you've still got the factory H/Ts? You want good tyres to go with your lockers!
By the way: many of us who DON'T drive Toyotas have decent LSDs, so we generally have better than 2wd WITHOUT a locker.
Question for all those people claiming lockers made the biggest single improvement: Did you judge lockers with good tyres, or lockers with crap tyres?
Cheers,
Scott
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:20 pm
by Beastmavster
Just an interesting question here?
How many advocating lockers have done lockers first on stock HT rubber?
I'm guessing very few to none........ So 2 points i can see....
1) they don't necessarily follow their own logic
2) they havent actually seen what lockers would achieve with stock rubber.
For those who can...... and still have their street tyres in the shed.
If you've got air lockers... turn them off (pull the fuse so you're not tempted to use them) and go for a play..... then chuck your original size road rubber back on for a day and plug the airlocker back in.
Come back and report to us your results... we'd all love to know how it goes.
I've experienced this with stock (for me 31" A/T's) and a single locker versus 33" swampers and no locker in the same rig (Maverick) and the locker was a very forlorn last place. And that's on the optional big wheel pack with AT's not HT's.
Just wondering if 2 lockers makes up the difference. It'll have to do a hell of a lot....
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:21 pm
by Rainbow Warrior
(anyone know how to delete a double posting?)
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:32 pm
by Maggot4x4
bogged wrote:dwaynes wrote:tyres for me
build the skill unlocked then go locked
Well put. Also learning the limits of you rig before going locked will be of benefit in the long run.
There are numerous variables as well as to which I would go.
- suspension
- car
- weight and height of rig
- engine HP
- LSD or not
- more....
IMWO lockers take a lot of skill out of driving... without them, you have to pick your line much more precise as the line will be different to the locked truck which can usually take any line.. You also have to drive better, clearer and be smoother.
With them, you can point and shoot a lot more. Not so much in the comp shit that Ruff etc do, but weekend stuff I mean.
Yep, agree with all that
bogged wrote:
you did it easy on 35's against a locked 32's - how much had to do with driving skills, or experience?
Probably a fair bit. I learnt to drive without lockers.
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:54 pm
by Rhett
lockers. you learn to drive all over again when you get them. No more hitting things with pace trying to get traction while bouncing up things
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:30 pm
by Aquarangie
I'd go for tyres.
Why? Because I've been on many a trip with blokes who have tyres only and get further up the hill than I do with diff locks. Plus driver skill comes into account as well. But in Queensland where rain is scarse, you can get away with less than great tyres and do well.
I've had lockers on may Rangie for a few years now. They're a novelty at first but you soon get to the stage where you get 'bored' and start attempting hills and so forth with open diffs then use your lockers accordingly.
I try to always remember that diff locks are a tool and shouldn't be overused.
Regards,
Trav
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:12 pm
by 460cixy
i had a locker in the back of my rangie with 205x16 stockies in mud it made fuck all diffrance realy but on steep dry surfaces or lose shale ect the locker was the way to go. but the good wheel travel on the rover means the locker realy would not make as much of a diffrance as to a leaf sprung job. all horses for corses but if your geting stoped by lifting wheels then your big expencive tyres will do no good at all.
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:34 pm
by Stackson45
Well,
This sounds like a good opportunity for an Outers' Official Lockers Vs Tyres testing day/weekend.
Same hill/s, go 31's locked, then 35's (or bigger) on open centres, on a variety of vehicles (one of each maybe), and watch the results. With this, driver ability doesn't play too much difference, as the same driver will drive their car in both situations - as oppossed to Driver 1 here with 20yrs driving experience, and Driver 2 just bought his fourby two weeks ago.
Even video proof if necessary for the sceptics.
I've only got one rear locker, but i'll help with tyre swapping...
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:42 pm
by bogged
bigbluemav wrote:Without a doubt lockers made the biggest difference.
Put some HT's on then go for another drive on the same terrain same conditions
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 5:31 pm
by Rainbow Warrior
Stackson45 wrote:Well,
This sounds like a good opportunity for an Outers' Official Lockers Vs Tyres testing day/weekend.
Same hill/s, go 31's locked, then 35's (or bigger) on open centres, on a variety of vehicles (one of each maybe), and watch the results. With this, driver ability doesn't play too much difference, as the same driver will drive their car in both situations - as oppossed to Driver 1 here with 20yrs driving experience, and Driver 2 just bought his fourby two weeks ago.
Even video proof if necessary for the sceptics.
I've only got one rear locker, but i'll help with tyre swapping...
While you're at it try both options in a deep mudhole too, maybe a 30 degree wet grass side slope too.
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:32 pm
by ofr57
I'd go for the tyers
it shows you got skill so you dont need lockers to get you out of things
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:08 pm
by rojak
Lockers with stock tread deficient tyres = bad idea
Pointless having drive to all wheels if there's no traction.
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:54 pm
by bogged
ofr57 wrote:it shows you got skill so you dont need lockers to get you out of things
I agree.
but apparently that skill doesnt really matter.
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:26 pm
by N*A*M
"good aggressive Large tyres or a locker"?
good aggressive large tyres for sure! you will get better traction, more under belly clearance, better approach and dep. angles, probably more width as well. you will also have tougher sidewalls.
i speak from experience of getting a rear spool in a stock zook on 26s. when i took it to the 4wd testing facility in werribee, i was constantly hung up on the scrappy rocks. 26" HTs don't do well in the mud either. slapped some 34" JT2s on and it opened up many more possibilities.
furthermore, good tyres keep you on your line, but poor use of lockers can fuxxor your line badly. greasy side slopes with a rear locker in, and you'll get off line no doubt.
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:14 pm
by Beastmavster
I guess there's another question here.....
would you prefer somoene to buy you lcokers or tyres..... that poll would be 100% lockers I think.
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:25 pm
by Rainbow Warrior
Beastmavster wrote:I guess there's another question here.....
would you prefer somoene to buy you lockers or tyres..... that poll would be 100% lockers I think.
Would you prefer someone buy you a turbo or sports exhaust system?
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:57 pm
by -Scott-
Beastmavster wrote:I guess there's another question here.....
would you prefer somoene to buy you lcokers or tyres..... that poll would be 100% lockers I think.
Depends - is this an "all you can eat" type of deal? If somebody was gonna supply me, for the rest of my life, with all the tyres I could use, or all the lockers I could use...
My last set of tyres cost me more than my locker.*
Ahhh, gotta love hypotheticals...
Scott
*Already had the compressor, and did most of the install myself.
Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 8:12 am
by eighty8
YankeeDave wrote:when i had all terrains and double lockers i couldnt get near as far as trucks with even mud terrains and no lockers
Have followed twin locked vehicles with a/t's that have struggled and then just cruzed on through with a good set of muds on. Depends to on what type of suspension you've got as well..
Tyres for me..
Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 9:26 am
by My Lil Lux
My work ute goes just about as many places as my Lux, A Ford courier IFS, 29 A/T's, although it does have the IDGAF advantage.
I'm going lockers, I've gotten further with A/T's on some tracks than with boggers, and only rear locker.