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mud4b wrote:wow,for that sort of moola imagine the mods you could do to a normal diff.although i understand you still couldnt get that much clearance.
And even the mods you can do you will not get the similar sort of strength especially when you are talking steering axle strength.
To get something similar to a mog404 in a steering axle IMO you need to go to a d60 front with 300m shafts and joints which costs about $10 000 US (this is basically the axle that people run in rear steer US comp buggies)
You will never make any commonly available Aus steering 4wd axle anyway near as strong as a mog 404 axle. Even if you start looking at bigger truck axles you then start to have problems cause you carnt get a locker for them and low ground clearance.
To give you an idea of how strong my mog 404 axles my mog rover weighs 2.14 tonnes with a 302 Windsor V8 and 42in tyres and I drive it as absolutely as hard as I can with as much throttle as I can. Where talking second gear max revs launches in the rocks bouncing around while still holding it the throttle flat. And a couple of my mates even drive my rig harder than I do. And the thing still hasent broken.
I think that if these axles were in a normal 4wd with 35in tyres then you could never ever break them - no matter how hard you tried. Probably break transfer cases or something.
yes volvos will break well before a mog will break. but i would say they are stronger than your current diffs.
the birfield cvs are a weak spot compared to mogs; but compared to a standard diff, the portal gears theoretically halve the torque applied to the cv. this makes them more robust than standard cvs. the portal boxes themselves are cast and are pretty heavy duty. the diff housings are also fairly robust. don't forget that these are military axles. over built for abuse by grunts (ask singo how army equipment is used). the laplanders were also heavier than your average fourby, especially when loaded with equipment, munitions and personnel. these axles were built to work in those conditions, they will last on your rig. something may break but they will last.
the initial outlay will get you: increased strength, increase gearing reduction, dual lockers, increased clearance, possibly increased width (depending on your rig) - for front AND rear. now go buy a pair of longfields, HD custom axles for front and rear, lower diff ratios front and rear, arb lockers for front and rear, shave your housing front and rear for clearance. then see how much you have spent by that stage. probably more than you would have spent on volvos. you may be stronger but you'd still have less clearance. besides you wouldn't be able to match the diff ratio of 7.16:1 or even 6:1 and still retain strength in your diff centres. don't forget these volvos can still be beefed up. trussed housings, gun drilled chromo shafts, bigger treated cvs, etc...
N*A*M wrote:volvo-wise... we're talking about the c303 and c304 laplander.
probably started production in the sixties, fully retired from production in the eighties.
used by the swedish and malaysian armies. also some emergency agencies in europe used them too (fire, ambulance, rescue etc...)
diffs were produced by salisbury (related to spicer & dana), who also produced the rover diffs at the time. this explains the many parts commonalities.
good sources for diffs: US, europe, malaysia or australia (if you know the right people).
they are now rare and in high demand thus making them quite expensive. from malaysia, you're looking at over $14k for 3 sets shipped to australia.
mogs i know very little about.
Nam 14k for 3 sets mmmm Thats what $2300 each right what is for ARB lockers $3200 front and rear installed. So the diffs are really only about $700 a diff now. How much is a GU front 2nd hand or a Lux/cruiser with longs gonna set ya back.
See ya point Nam.
Wanna sell em
Official member of the Babinda Jimmy James Beam III Fan Club
Darth Bobo Honker Hunter Inc, for the up gunned Poodlefaker.
Fawk even my puny Dana diffs have 5k invested in 'em....
some wanna nick it for me so I can start afresh And based on what NAM saying, I think a Jeep might have a chance of getting passed.....
Speaking of Jeeps, if I could find a cheap TJ, that would be my ideal platform for a streetable portal'd rig. The frame has a very high arch for the axles and you could set one up to sit quite low to compensate for the portal height. I would have to find a tcase to suit though correct? The front output is passenger side though isn't it?
N*A*M wrote:Speaking of Jeeps, if I could find a cheap TJ, that would be my ideal platform for a streetable portal'd rig. The frame has a very high arch for the axles and you could set one up to sit quite low to compensate for the portal height. I would have to find a tcase to suit though correct? The front output is passenger side though isn't it?
Nick Wooders.
Hell I'll do it you get the top bits i get the bottom bits
Official member of the Babinda Jimmy James Beam III Fan Club
Darth Bobo Honker Hunter Inc, for the up gunned Poodlefaker.
N*A*M wrote:Speaking of Jeeps, if I could find a cheap TJ, that would be my ideal platform for a streetable portal'd rig. The frame has a very high arch for the axles and you could set one up to sit quite low to compensate for the portal height. I would have to find a tcase to suit though correct? The front output is passenger side though isn't it?
np321 - which is stock is passenger side front output as you mentioned.
dana300 is drivers side.
gear driven
cast
nearly as strong as an atlas
Cost is US$50-150 depending on condition.
then you need to ship one back here
Yup DEFFINATELY the Dana300 would be the pick of the "Jeep" transfer cases.
So where do we get these diffs from? & is the $5k the price for both diffs or just one???
BTW NAM if you can get a hold of JP for 2 months ago they had a feature on a Portalled TJ....had stock springs and was running 40" tyres (with cutting etc).....
I was VERY impressed with the way it looked & the way it appeared to preform (in the pics)...I'll see if I can find an online link....
mud4b wrote:wow,for that sort of moola imagine the mods you could do to a normal diff.although i understand you still couldnt get that much clearance.
Heres a broken down costing!
MOGS! = $5000.00 + Fitting and suspension! ($1000.00 Max)
You get Clearance, Strength (more than a D60), LOCKERS and Reduction (around 7:1)
A built up Hilux!
$250.00 front housing.
$500.00 High pinion 4.88 diff centre (strong)
$1500.00 ARB air locker
$1000.00 Longfields
$600.00 All-pro alloy inner axles!
$250.00 Wide track hilux rear housing and centre!
$1200.00 Arb Air locker
$1000.00 Either twin cases or reduction gears for t/case (to get to the same reduction as the mogs 7:1)
___________
$6300.00
And you still have a pair of diffs that will take NO WHERE near the amount of abuse the MOGS will!
Ok MOR questions....
The Mog 404 axle is 69/68" wide (f/r)...thats a lot more than a stock TJ with only 61"....
Asside from covering the tyres what other issues need to be addressed to permit the extra width??? Thinking road worth aspects only....
I agree that the Mog diffs are the ultimate, But I'm building a SWB defender using Range Rover diffs (which are weak as) and I was going to put maxi drives in, but for the same price i could get Mogs or Volvo's
I've liked the idea of the volvo's, because they are narrower than the mogs and abit easier to fit. So how much would a set of Volvo's with 7.19 ratio set me back?
And if the volvo's are really consider weak, how do they fair against a complete maxi drive diff ?
[i]DAS[/i]
MY05 4.4L V8 Range Rover Vogue
Series 2a Buggy....In the Building
I agree that the Mog diffs are the ultimate, But I'm building a SWB defender using Range Rover diffs (which are weak as) and I was going to put maxi drives in, but for the same price i could get Mogs or Volvo's
I've liked the idea of the volvo's, because they are narrower than the mogs and abit easier to fit. So how much would a set of Volvo's with 7.19 ratio set me back?
And if the volvo's are really consider weak, how do they fair against a complete maxi drive diff ?
In the order of axle strenghts, im sorry to say that I think that maxi drive diff is way down the bottom of any aust axle. Nothing to do with maxi drive its just the rover crown wheel is very weak and the CVs arnt much better and the axle dia and spline count lets it down a bit also.
But anyway I would guess that a volvo c303 axle would be way stronger than a toy or nissan axle. I would say with a set of 37s and a decent v8 engine you would be doing well to break them.
When we say that the US guys break them they really are flogging the absolute piss out of them. Way harder than anybody you see in the Aust competitions.
I was talking with the local 4x4 guy. I believe his name was mick at {enter plug}QLD 4x4 spares and repairs bogan street albion {end plug} ANd we got talking about a few things about my 80 g/box issue and then we got started about sam's moggy and how i wouldn't mind doing something like that with my 75 series and all...
"Put vovlo diffs in it" was the reply.. "Hasn't been done before and you can get parts easier."
Sounds great idea to me, but how do these stack up against the mogs for strength and comparison
Any mog boys got some ideas ?
why did you use mog diffs over volvo's ?
i got pictures of a mid wheelbase 75 series with volvo axles and pics of lots of forty series and even a series 1 landrover!
yeah the volvos have been done......
Last edited by bj on roids on Wed Sep 03, 2003 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
RUFF wrote:And here is a pic of his spare Diff Collection
You can never have too many diffs to choose from
sam, you must have a bloody good security setup to keep all these other boys away from your spare mogs down at bootie central. i bet they'd be itching to get em under their rigs
Sam said if i can lif tthe dana 60 myself and put it on my ute i can take it home for free. After i tried and my spleen shot out my bumcrack i grabbed my spleen and did the bolt!
RUFF wrote:And here is a pic of his spare Diff Collection
You can never have too many diffs to choose from
sam, you must have a bloody good security setup to keep all these other boys away from your spare mogs down at bootie central. i bet they'd be itching to get em under their rigs
Sam said if i can lif tthe dana 60 myself and put it on my ute i can take it home for free. After i tried and my spleen shot out my bumcrack i grabbed my spleen and did the bolt!
the security is also second to none, he has three big attack/guard dogs. Those things will tear your arm off! (im not talking about rod, im talking about the dogs)
176cm = 69" .....that's the same as a Mog 404 front & 1" more than a 404 rear.....??
Seems the pinion length is a BIG issue with the mogs....
Sam, do you have the stock pinion length or is it converted? Was this a big factor in your extended wheelbase?
Is the Volvo pinion smaller?
Where to get some dimensions & sh!t???
I've long been toying with the idea of dual D60's but seems This could be a cheaper (stronger) option so I'm keen to fully investigate it.....
As for the fuel tank - I cnsider that one of the smaller issues in getting it to work since I've be talking at least a new t/case and exhaust system too....
176cm = 69" .....that's the same as a Mog 404 front & 1" more than a 404 rear.....?? Seems the pinion length is a BIG issue with the mogs.... Sam, do you have the stock pinion length or is it converted? Was this a big factor in your extended wheelbase? Is the Volvo pinion smaller? Where to get some dimensions & sh!t???
I've long been toying with the idea of dual D60's but seems This could be a cheaper (stronger) option so I'm keen to fully investigate it..... As for the fuel tank - I cnsider that one of the smaller issues in getting it to work since I've be talking at least a new t/case and exhaust system too....
I have done a "pinion conversion" and all this does is give you a normal pinion flange on the pinion shaft to bolt a normal tailshaft to (as opposed to the torque tube arrangement they come with standard). The pinion is still very long.
Nah - I wanted this wheelbase anyway. I would guess I could have gone as short as say 104in .... possibly shorter.
OK thanks - I was under the mis-impression that it actually gave you a shorter pinion....and as I see it the rear driveshaft length (or lack of) is potentially one of the bigger issues with a TJ....104"WB is 11" more than mine is now (stock it's 91")
(with cutting etc).....
(stock it's 91")
