Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Posted: **Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:42 am**

sjp wrote:well the motor didnt go bang with the dyno ,even though it blew enough black smoke for me to expect a visit from the EPA the car is running quite abit rich ,about 14.3 air to fuel ratio should be in the range of 18,hence the over fueling /black smoke (blew some with the gas off)blew even more with the gas on .
the web site for diesel gas states for a n/a 105 l/cruiser
standard 76.6 hp mine 79.2
with gas 91.1 mine with gas 88.4
% increase 18.92% % increase 11.61%
so there you go ,iam going to have the fuel turned down a bit which could reduce the power ,but first i talk to dieselgas for their thoughts ,suggestions from jarretts (dyno) is to change the air filter to a k&n and fit a 21/2 inch exhust dyno chart enclosed hopefully
iam sure the motor can tweaked to give me more gain how much i dont know

so are you happy with the diesel/gas system? as i want to do it to my hilux 2003

Posted: **Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:14 am**

sjp wrote:well the motor didnt go bang with the dyno ,even though it blew enough black smoke for me to expect a visit from the EPA the car is running quite abit rich ,about 14.3 air to fuel ratio should be in the range of 18,hence the over fueling /black smoke (blew some with the gas off)blew even more with the gas on .
the web site for diesel gas states for a n/a 105 l/cruiser
standard 76.6 hp mine 79.2
with gas 91.1 mine with gas 88.4
% increase 18.92% % increase 11.61%
so there you go ,iam going to have the fuel turned down a bit which could reduce the power ,but first i talk to dieselgas for their thoughts ,suggestions from jarretts (dyno) is to change the air filter to a k&n and fit a 21/2 inch exhust dyno chart enclosed hopefully
iam sure the motor can tweaked to give me more gain how much i dont know

yes as per your next post the k&n are a disaster waiting to happen especially on a 4WD. they are good for a track car or anywhere where absolute peak performance is more important than engine life and reliability.

do you think you've paid a LOT of $ for a 12% power increase? (albeit for the same fuel cost)

standard exhaust on your vehicle is alread 2.5" - you need to have a full mandrel bent system for any improvement without increasing the size - and the benefit will all be at the absolute top end of the rpm range, where a 1HZ seldom needs to be pushed to.

rulling that rich I would be very worried about our combustion temperatures, 1HZ motors are famous for cracked precombustion chambers due to high internal temperatures from rich running. you can turn the fuel down yourself, it's not difficult, there is a screw on the top, back, right of the fuel pump, screw it COUNTERCLOCKWISE to turn the fuel down - try 1/4 turn increments, a little turn is a lot of fuel.

Posted: **Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:04 am**

xplot i can only give you some of the facts of the system ,might work betteron yours if its turbo'd as dumbdance says,bit of a worry when an installer(eg tiny) doesent answer any questions
Dumbdance thanksfor the fuel info ,i'll turn it down and see what happens ,esp to the smoke
the dyno guy turbo'd his 100 and was only getting 91.5 hp from the wheels ,only 3 hp more then mine ,but itis a constant drive so i guess he losing a bit in his driveline
$4000 for 12% is disapointing,the whole improved 100 series process

has been so far -new suspension already sagged 30mm on the passenger side and is a bit harser on bitumen-new snorkel safari rattles loudly(not intake noise)
because its touching the body and i doubt the bracket on the pillar will hold over any decent corrugation,
my last 80 was stock for 15 yrs ,didnt even change the springs(shockies only for factory ones)
so yea not getting the claimed improvements for the money does piss me off a bit ,but its only been a week lets see if it gets better(i see on their website now you can buy motor insurance ,its like going to a food shop and buying insurance with meal in case you get food poisening,i thought d/gas is better for your motor etc etc

Posted: **Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:18 pm**

Hows the system going? Dieselgas is doing mine in december good old rebate. Still trying to find out more about the benefits..

Posted: **Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:44 pm**

Brian
With extra air from more boost, you could return the pump to std and introduce the lpg, that should work nice...or intercool top give more dense air, and lpg without touching the pump

dumbdunce wrote:
...how much can preformance be improved for a n/a motor...
it's not so much that it's not a turbo motor, it's that it's indirect injected, so (and I'm fuzzy on the theory here but it's something along these lines) you end up with a situation where instead of the diesel spray, LPG and air all mixing together and provinding a clean, controlled flame front throughout the combustion chamber, you get the initial diesel flame igniting some of the LPG so that (a) your air is robbed of some oxygen that should have gone to burning the diesel (b) the LPG can no longer act as a catalyst for the diesel burn as it is turned to water and carbon dioxide before it's meant to - the result is diesel smoke because the diesel can't burn as it should and a potential loss of power if the energy available from the burned LPG is less that the energy that should have been liberated from the Diesel fuel. This is how it has been explained to me, but I'm buggered if I know how anyone can tell you what's happening in a combustion chamber. sounds plausible?

Anyway so much for theory - I have tried home brew LPG fumigation with a 1HZ motor and it made some very small but noticeable gains at low rpm, but there was bugger all gain at highway speeds, and, like you observe, smoke - we fiddled with more gas, less gas etc etc (using a acetylene regulator to increase/decrease LPG and a solenoid valve to switch it on/off). have yet to try it on my factory turbo 80 series but might give it a crack this weekend just to see how it goes.

Posted: **Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:45 pm**

as far as i kno you cant use lpg and a intercooler together as if you get a backfire you have a giant chamber of ges to go **kablamo**
plus lpg has the same efect as intercooling hence why it gives more gains when used on turbo motors............. cools the inlet air

Posted: **Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:51 pm**

badger wrote:as far as i kno you cant use lpg and a intercooler together as if you get a backfire you have a giant chamber of ges to go **kablamo**
plus lpg has the same efect as intercooling hence why it gives more gains when used on turbo motors............. cools the inlet air

whats with lpg and motors backfire up the intake? i've personally never seen it. one of the contractors had a van that used to backfire (exhaust) as it was set up as duel fuel and i suspect the timing was out. he got rid of the lpg system not long after (no local lpg gas station).

lpg intercooling?? only if its injected as a liquid. i can't see adding a gas to the air intake doing any decent cooling.

Posted: **Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:20 pm**

when was the last time your diesel back fired

Posted: **Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:22 pm**

roberts wrote:when was the last time your diesel back fired

O so true. Pay that as a call and a comeback..

Posted: **Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:43 pm**

*shrugs*
twas what i was told by gas place here in bris that has done a few big power td42t's with lpg fumigation

Posted: **Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:14 am**

when was the last time your diesel back fired

True diesel is injected at compression, but LPG is injected into the inlet before compression and has the change to back fire.

RB

Posted: **Sun Aug 27, 2006 12:47 pm**

can you put a balance pipe to the mixer like a blow thru turbo/carb setup on a petrol so the gas doesn't have to go thru the turbo and cooler? i cant see any benifit to lpg on a n/a diesel only on a turbo. wouldn't lpg on a na diesel have a similar effect to dialing the pump in a bit. the only thing that stops mine making more power (ihz turbo/cooled 16psi) is that the inj pump cant get any more fuel in to match the amount of air at full boost. if i can get more fuel in at full boost using lpg fumigation to match the air i think i should see a big power increase. but i cant see this making any more power when it's at low boost because it overfuels a bit up to about 6-8 psi anyway. i think maybe if i spend the same amount of money on injectors and inj pump i might see a bigger increase right thru the rev range than having a big stupid gas tank under my tray. exhaust temps are worrying me too.

Posted: **Sun Aug 27, 2006 5:55 pm**

You can use lpg at lower engine speeds as it is a cleaner burning fuel. The more fuel the more power. Exhaust temps are a reflection of how welll the system is set up. If they are too high, you either have too much fuel or not enough air.

The problem with modifying injectors and pump is you will cross the line when smoke emissions become too high for everyday driving.

Do you run an boost compensater on this set up??

Posted: **Sun Aug 27, 2006 6:05 pm**

no boost compensator, it blows a bit of smoke untill about 6psi.