Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Posted: **Sun May 28, 2006 10:17 pm**

cloughy wrote:What's actually breaking, clutch packs, gear sets, what?

So have you actually found whats farked up?????

Posted: **Sun May 28, 2006 10:39 pm**

Cloughy,

Sorry I hadn't replied about this yet, but it sounds like the converter and/ or pump has failed. There is a full-on buzzing sound from the bellhousing and gets worse when you select drive or reverse. The vehicle has drive for about 30 secs, then starts to shudder etc and then no gears at all. Buzzing sound like a cavitating power steering pump is still going at this point.

You have the same opinion about diesel autos as i do I see, I am currently researching the possibility of fitting an Allison AT540 from another Isuzu diesel, and adapting an LT230 to it.
Keep you posted.

JC

Posted: **Sun May 28, 2006 10:46 pm**

Sounds like an interesting failure (no good to you) i'd appreciate the updates as you go, as i'd be highly inclined to stay with the auto cause the mule's kind of suck with the diesel

Posted: **Mon May 29, 2006 1:47 pm**

Common failure on a 4HP22 is apparently to strip the splines on the input shaft/torque converter. Did you check the clearance between the torque converter and flex plate when you mated them? If too big then the splines maybe not fully engaged.
regards Philip A

Posted: **Mon May 29, 2006 7:15 pm**

Hi Phil,

Yes, the splines are exactly the same engagement depth as before. The guy who made my adapter plate and spigot adapter is an artist. After I fitted it all up, I could rotate the converter with 1 fingertip in the spigot.

I've still got drive, but only for about 30 seconds, then it shudders and stops driving altogether. There is also a cavitating noise like an empty power steering pump ......

JC

Posted: **Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:23 pm**

justinC wrote:
ISUZUROVER wrote:Justin - bit more info.

Looks like the 4-speed is the Allison AT542 or AT545. Looks a bit smaller than the 5 or 6 speed.

Hi ben,

Where would I get info on the box pictured? Is it an SAE3 pattern? Isuzu bolt up? Looks like the same type of flange...All I would have to do is fit an LT230...
I can buy a AT540 out of Melb for around $700.00 complete off a 6BB1. I'm interested to find out if the flange diameters are the same as the 4Bd1.

Thanks

JC

I just found some specs on the AT540

Max rating: 235 hp (175kw)
Input speed, full load governed: 3200-4000 rpm
Net input torque :385 lb ft (522 nm) Mx
Vehicle weight: 10,000 to 30,00 lb. (4,500 to 14,000 kg's)

Gear ratio's
Rev: 5.02
1st: 3.45
2nd: 2.25
3rd: 1.41
4th: 1.00

Size:
Length : 27.11 inch (691 mm)
Width: 19.84 inch (504 mm)
Height: 20.35 in (517 mm)
Weight (dry): 125kg's approx.

http://www.altousa.com/np47.pdf

http://www.shinseiauto.com/japanese/tra ... t54004.pdf

Posted: **Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:15 pm**

mmmm. not much meat there to bolt an adaptor from the LT230 to, plus you'll have to make one

Remote LT230

,Nah not enough room

Posted: **Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:18 pm**

cloughy wrote:mmmm. not much meat there to bolt an adaptor from the LT230 to, plus you'll have to make one

Remote LT230 ,Nah not enough room

There are always options... have seen cases modified and flanges welded on...

A remote LT230 can be done in a 110.

Posted: **Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:20 pm**

ISUZUROVER wrote:
cloughy wrote:mmmm. not much meat there to bolt an adaptor from the LT230 to, plus you'll have to make one

Remote LT230 ,Nah not enough room
There are always options... have seen cases modified and flanges welded on...

It's funny you mention that

Posted: **Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:40 pm**

Funny that was mentioned eh Ash??? Has someone been phone tapping???

I think if you remove the parkbrake etc and weld a flange plate to the housing, then it would probably work well. Gusseting and stiffeners will be easily added.
AND DID YOU SEE THE PTO HOUSING!!!! JUST THE PLACE TO MOUNT THE HYDRAULIC PUMP FOR THE WINCH!!!!

( Dreaming again...)

I think it will be a goer Cloughy and all who are interested, I'll be researching a bit more...

JC

Posted: **Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:54 pm**

justinC wrote:Cloughy,

Sorry I hadn't replied about this yet, but it sounds like the converter and/ or pump has failed. There is a full-on buzzing sound from the bellhousing and gets worse when you select drive or reverse. The vehicle has drive for about 30 secs, then starts to shudder etc and then no gears at all. Buzzing sound like a cavitating power steering pump is still going at this point.

You have the same opinion about diesel autos as i do I see, I am currently researching the possibility of fitting an Allison AT540 from another Isuzu diesel, and adapting an LT230 to it.
Keep you posted.

JC

I'm no expert - but sounds like busted turbine vanes in the converter. If so its an easy job to get a new beefed up TC,

Posted: **Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:59 pm**

Not to say it can't be done aslong as you have a good mate thats a clever machinist

Posted: **Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:33 pm**

cloughy wrote:Not to say it can't be done aslong as you have a good mate thats a clever machinist

YUP, The guy I have in mind is an artist. He made my ZF adapter and it is a great piece of work.

Can't wait to get started now...

JC

Posted: **Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:23 am**

justinC wrote:
cloughy wrote:Not to say it can't be done aslong as you have a good mate thats a clever machinist
YUP, The guy I have in mind is an artist. He made my ZF adapter and it is a great piece of work.

Can't wait to get started now...

JC

Great news Justin, please post pics and info as it comes along... I am also interested in how much the box cost and how much you expect the adaptor to cost (fee free to PM).

Posted: **Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:42 pm**

Any developments with the a auto (any) behind the 4BD1?

I am considering doing such a conversion.

Came across this while doing a little research.....

When a ZF4 series transmission shifts to 4th gear, clutch pack element "F" applies, which then allows the rear planetary section to lift and rotate. During the time that the elements are applied, vibratory resonance from the TCC tends to rock clutch drum "E" back and forth slightly but with considerable force. With diesel equipped vehicles, the engine pulses tend to aggravate the condition even more. As the friction plate teeth on clutch "F" rock back and forth with this motion, the teeth begin a peening effect on the splines of the clutch "E" drum. The steel cores of the enclosed friction plates are .060" thick versus the .035" of the original thickness steel cores. The additional .025" of material is almost double the amount of total tooth contact area. The additional .025" thickness also spreads the energy of the apply over more surface area.

Found here;
http://209.68.50.20/alto/ib53758.htm

Surely the ZF can be beefed up enough in all areas to handle the Isuzu.

(Plus I wanted to post so people could see what I wanted below....)

Posted: **Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:41 pm**

I don't know how it'd go for space.
But www.isuzudieselswapper.com has kits to put a 700R4 behind a 4BD1T.

That guy (in Florida) has his 2wd converted chev truck on EBAY right now. Divorce requires sale.

Posted: **Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:23 pm**

Yeah, 4BD1, IsuzuDieselSwapper Adaptor plate, 700R, Adaptor (bloke in SAfrica makes them, or easy enough to make), LT230, combo would work very easily.

The adaptor I read rotates the LT230 slightly to clear the front drive shaft off the auto sump. Either need to move the engine forwards (putting more weight over the front) or moving the transfer back with extended and shortened drive shafts.

For some reason, I want to keep parts with my 90/110 commonish and factory fitish. But the lower 1st and other things make the 700R very appealling. If the 700R didn't make the drive train so long I would stick the 4BD1,700R combo in both the 90 and 110. Not keen on pushing the engine forwards for the conversion and not sure that there would be enough room in the 90 to push the transfer back. Especially with a lo pinion toyo diff in the rear.

Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I've given up...

Re: pics?

welding the adapter...