Outer Limits 4x4 Board

What about getting an older motor and putting an after market EFI setup on it like a holley carby replacement kit? You can also plumb in some giggle gas, they come with the fittings ready to go

It definatly would be worth while looking at a new FORD motor for an engine conversion. Like the BOSS 295kw from factory.


LudaCris

Bighazza wrote: Are you sure that the 351 crank will need 351 rods??

yup. 302 rods are longer coz of the shorter stroke. 351 crank on 302 rods will push the pistons out the top of the cylinder block (unless you wanna fork out the extra cash for modded pistons)

Also the 351 heads would be better because they are open chamber unlike the 302 heads which are closed chamber

Only if you want big revs. In most applications 351 heads flow too much for even 351s.

Eddy wrote:[quote="Bighazza
Are you sure that the 351 crank will need 351 rods??

yup. 302 rods are longer coz of the shorter stroke. 351 crank on 302 rods will push the pistons out the top of the cylinder block

Also the 351 heads would be better because they are open chamber unlike the 302 heads which are closed chamber

Only if you want big revs. In most applications 351 heads flow too much for even 351s.[/quote]

302 and 351 2v heads have the same size ports, so obviously flow the same. 302 heads are closed chamber, and create higher compression, than open chambers, which is great for gas.

You can buy specific pistons to suit the 351 crank/302 rod combo, it is a good way to make more power, as it holds the piston at top dead centre for longer, building more torque. The 351 rods are roughly 5.7", versus the 302 rod which is nearly 6". most stroker kits come with 6" rods anyway.

bad_religion_au wrote:

badger wrote:not being much of a ford man i dunno alot about them
but would the injected motors from newer falcons be worth the conversion over a 304?

as they seem to be cheaper to get hold of and as powerful

he'd still need a different adapter kit i think for the later injected windsors... plus injection means SFA when your on LPG

The 302 windsor is also a very good motor - after all the GT's came out with them many years ago......

The 302 was still competitive until the 350 chev's came out. They can (with forced induction or the 5.6 stroker kit) continue to be competitive with the 350 chev Gen III today.


AS far as price goes, they're way cheaper than 304 and 350.

Not much good for this application when he already has a cleveland conversion kit fitted.

Beastmavster wrote:

bad_religion_au wrote:

badger wrote:not being much of a ford man i dunno alot about them
but would the injected motors from newer falcons be worth the conversion over a 304?

as they seem to be cheaper to get hold of and as powerful

he'd still need a different adapter kit i think for the later injected windsors... plus injection means SFA when your on LPG

The 302 windsor is also a very good motor - after all the GT's came out with them many years ago......

The 302 was still competitive until the 350 chev's came out. They can (with forced induction or the 5.6 stroker kit) continue to be competitive with the 350 chev Gen III today.


AS far as price goes, they're way cheaper than 304 and 350.

Not much good for this application when he already has a cleveland conversion kit fitted.

Only the XT GT had the 302W, the XR had the 289w, the early XW had the 351W (quite a different motor) and late XW onwards were all Clevo's.

If he gets a late windsor, it will fit up to his clevo bellhousing, and mounts. Late windsors are 6 bolt bellhousing, like Clevo, early windsor is 5 bolt.

I should probably ask this on Ford forum, but anyhow I do aslo have a 351 windsor that's been sitting dormant in a ski boat for last few years- I was going to rebuild it with Clevo heads- would this be a better donk than the clevo?
BTW- Sydney Speed supplies sell 383 clevo stroker kit with rods and pistons (cast) $1400.
Also there alloy "3V" heads are $1600 complete or $1000 bare but suit high rpm which I'm not after.

slosh wrote:I should probably ask this on Ford forum, but anyhow I do aslo have a 351 windsor that's been sitting dormant in a ski boat for last few years- I was going to rebuild it with Clevo heads- would this be a better donk than the clevo?
BTW- Sydney Speed supplies sell 383 clevo stroker kit with rods and pistons (cast) $1400.
Also there alloy "3V" heads are $1600 complete or $1000 bare but suit high rpm which I'm not after.

Putting clevo heads on a Windsor, for your application, will cost too much. A manifold to suit is not cheap, plus drilling the waterholes into the heads etc is a bit of stuffing around. The windsor on it's own, will be as good as a Clevo, in a near standard application there is not much difference. Also, I assume it is an early block? 5 bolt bellhousing? Your conversion will be 6 bolt.

CRUSHU wrote:

slosh wrote:I should probably ask this on Ford forum, but anyhow I do aslo have a 351 windsor that's been sitting dormant in a ski boat for last few years- I was going to rebuild it with Clevo heads- would this be a better donk than the clevo?
BTW- Sydney Speed supplies sell 383 clevo stroker kit with rods and pistons (cast) $1400.
Also there alloy "3V" heads are $1600 complete or $1000 bare but suit high rpm which I'm not after.

Putting clevo heads on a Windsor, for your application, will cost too much. A manifold to suit is not cheap, plus drilling the waterholes into the heads etc is a bit of stuffing around. The windsor on it's own, will be as good as a Clevo, in a near standard application there is not much difference. Also, I assume it is an early block? 5 bolt bellhousing? Your conversion will be 6 bolt.

5 Bolt bellhousing?? i had a 302 from an XW in my rangie and it was still 6 bolts

did it have a C4 or C10 auto behind it?

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... highlight=

Thought there was no such thing as C10

c10 behind it but that wasn't from the XW as that would have been C9

5 bolt bellhousing was on the 260 and early 289s. by the time Ford got to the 302 it was all 6 bolt. I have a 289 with 6 bolt, and also had on with 5 bolt.

im prety suprised by this thread seing most folk here bag fords like its goin out of fasion. yet no one has baged the clevo for its stump pulling torque. anyways in my opnion 302 clevo is a bit of a wast of time for how heavy it is and its lack of balls 351 on the other hand realy hands the 350 and genIII its arse on a plate for low down torque in standard trim . also the clevo will far out live a genIII in just about any situation. as for the dizzy being in the wrong spot its much easyer to repair in the field if you went genIII it would have to be injected ect as it came from the factorywith far more conections to fill with water then just leads and a dizzy cap. the winsor is also a good donk and more readly available much more revy than a clevo and less torque but lighter and now days with the winsor being used right up to auII falcons there lots hottie bits around and prety cheap. plus the efi from the falcon ect ect im about to bolt one in to a 60 series and the blokes still not conviced it will be as ballsy as a 350 chev. when his axels snap like the ones in my rover i think he will be convinced im pissed this post is no fault of my own

cloughy wrote:http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... highlight=

Thought there was no such thing as C10

c10 behind it but that wasn't from the XW as that would have been C9

I was trying to keep it simple. But I knew it was coming....

lets not throw the humble fmx in there to confuse shit even more. but in my opnion and im sure you will all disagre i recon the fmx is far stronger in standard form than any of that c4 junk but that would be getting off topic

460cixy wrote:lets not throw the humble fmx in there to confuse shit even more. but in my opnion and im sure you will all disagre i recon the fmx is far stronger in standard form than any of that c4 junk but that would be getting off topic

You right in "standard" form but

CRUSHU wrote:

cloughy wrote:http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... highlight=

Thought there was no such thing as C10

c10 behind it but that wasn't from the XW as that would have been C9

I was trying to keep it simple. But I knew it was coming....

460cixy wrote:lets not throw the humble fmx in there to confuse shit even more. but in my opnion and im sure you will all disagre i recon the fmx is far stronger in standard form than any of that c4 junk but that would be getting off topic

I had a FMX behind by 351 C and that box never gave me trouble.


It changed gear when you wanted/needed it, not like the 700R behind the Holdens/Chevs which tend to fluff and slurr along, or finally kick down a few moments too late.

The current 4 speed auto Ford boxes are very sharp yet smooth compared to the 700R.

460cixy wrote:lets not throw the humble fmx in there to confuse shit even more. but in my opnion and im sure you will all disagre i recon the fmx is far stronger in standard form than any of that c4 junk but that would be getting off topic

It is wierd, The FMX was fitted behind Aussie and US 351c's, and some uninteresting Big Blocks, The C4 was fitted behind all the Windsors, and the Aussie 302c (The 302c does not exist anywhere else in the world. It was made in Australia, for our market only). The C4 was also fitted to a small amount of Big Blocks! Then the C6 was behind all the high performance Big Blocks, and in most F series.

So both boxes have been behind Big Blocks, yet Ford Australia decided to fit the less popular, and power sapping FMX behind our 351c

1 - if you want torque, go the 351. if you want revs, go the 302. I used to race an XD with a fully blue-printed 302 that had 400 hp and had an insane redline, so you dont need 351 for power, its all up to where you want it.

2- Ford USA sold a 351 and 302 Windsor with modified (for water jacket line up, etc) cleveland heads and called them Boss 302 & 351. different to what was sold over here as a Boss engine. I have heard that it isnt to hard to convert clevo heads to windsor block but i havent done or seen it myself. with the breathing of the clevo heads and the reliabilkity of the windsor bottem end, should be a good conversion.

NightmareBlade wrote:1 - if you want torque, go the 351. if you want revs, go the 302. I used to race an XD with a fully blue-printed 302 that had 400 hp and had an insane redline, so you dont need 351 for power, its all up to where you want it.

2- Ford USA sold a 351 and 302 Windsor with modified (for water jacket line up, etc) cleveland heads and called them Boss 302 & 351. different to what was sold over here as a Boss engine. I have heard that it isnt to hard to convert clevo heads to windsor block but i havent done or seen it myself. with the breathing of the clevo heads and the reliabilkity of the windsor bottem end, should be a good conversion.

There weren't any Boss motors sold here at all....
And 351's can rev, if you use the longer rods. My brothers 351c makes power at 8200rpm.

why do the longer rods allow more revs? the stroke will still be 3.5".

NightmareBlade wrote:why do the longer rods allow more revs? the stroke will still be 3.5".

They put less load on the walls of the cylinder, so have less tendancy to split bores, and there is another reason, but I don't know it off the top of my head

doent it allow the piston to stay at tdc longer as well .. and lowering polar inertia (I think, nerd types may know this)

Cast your mind back to the 88 Nats. Green XD with 88nats plates running and injected 351 that pulled 11000rpm and made huge HP

Pitty the track was shite and he hit the bunting as soon as he started his burnout

There weren't any Boss motors sold here at all....

Actually, a Boss 302 (windsor with clevo heads) was sold in the XT GT, and the XW GTHO Phase 1 motor was called the Boss 351.

NightmareBlade wrote:

There weren't any Boss motors sold here at all....

Actually, a Boss 302 (windsor with clevo heads) was sold in the XT GT, and the XW GTHO Phase 1 motor was called the Boss 351.

Um... no. the 302 in the XT GT did not have Clevo heads. Also the XW (or any other model for that matter) never had an engine called a BOSS. Maybe you are confusing the Alloy Finned rocker covers that were available as an accessory and aftermarket with such things as Boss 351 or GT 351 cast into the badge in the middle.

What about Aussie sold mustangs?

Beastmavster wrote:What about Aussie sold mustangs?

Aussie sold mustangs were 1965 or 1966 models, and only had 289 windsors in them.

CRUSHU wrote:

Beastmavster wrote:What about Aussie sold mustangs?

Aussie sold mustangs were 1965 or 1966 models, and only had 289 windsors in them.

There was an immaculate stock Mustang in my town in the 60's, RHD and it was powered by ....a 200 ci 6 cyl.