Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:35 pm
Makes no sense at all i think you have been raped in dabum, cause there is only 2 types of carrier, early and late and im sure ashcroft wouldn't be manufacturing pinions that require different bearings
Page 2 of 3
Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:41 pm
I'd be going back to Wombat and asking some serious questions.
Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:15 pm
Yes, I agree with all of you. I thought I was getting an expert to install them (in fact he was recommended by the people who imported the gears) but the more I learn about all this the more I understand that things are just not right.
I intend to see them tomorrow and suggest they reduce their installation costs. I don't mind paying for the work they should have done, ie. installation and new bearings but not for anything else. If they wont come to the party on that then I think it's a good case for the small claims tribunal or Dept. Fair Trading.
Someone suggested getting someone else to look at the gears. Can the tolerances and clearances be checked without pulling it all apart again? If it was going to cost $200 to get them checked then I would do it but if it is going to cost another $600 on top of the $1400 Wombat want + $850 for the gears + $200 for the new flanges........well I don't have the Mullah!
I intend to see them tomorrow and suggest they reduce their installation costs. I don't mind paying for the work they should have done, ie. installation and new bearings but not for anything else. If they wont come to the party on that then I think it's a good case for the small claims tribunal or Dept. Fair Trading.
Someone suggested getting someone else to look at the gears. Can the tolerances and clearances be checked without pulling it all apart again? If it was going to cost $200 to get them checked then I would do it but if it is going to cost another $600 on top of the $1400 Wombat want + $850 for the gears + $200 for the new flanges........well I don't have the Mullah!
Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:17 pm
1400 OMFG!!!!! What are u doing!!!
Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:18 pm
Clearances can be checked, but you need to pull the axles and driveshaft off and then unbolt the whole carrier and take it in to whoever will check it.
That's all pretty low tech, so you can't really get into trouble.
Or take it to someone to do it but they will charge to do the above.
That's all pretty low tech, so you can't really get into trouble.
Or take it to someone to do it but they will charge to do the above.
Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:30 pm
Thanks mate, the diffs will already be out so I might see how much Range-Rov will charge to check it out. How about you get your's installed ASAP. If everything fits fine (which I expect it will) then it is just more ammunition for me.
Mick, I don't want to hear anymore from you!!! And for that $1400 I pulled the diffs out myself and will put them back in. It was meant to cost $480. Now they have supplied and installed all new pinion and carrier bearings so i am willing to pay more. I think it would be very generous if I offered $900 for all the work.
My problem is if they won't accept my offer and it goes further then they are not going to give me my diffs back.
Mick, I don't want to hear anymore from you!!! And for that $1400 I pulled the diffs out myself and will put them back in. It was meant to cost $480. Now they have supplied and installed all new pinion and carrier bearings so i am willing to pay more. I think it would be very generous if I offered $900 for all the work.
My problem is if they won't accept my offer and it goes further then they are not going to give me my diffs back.
Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:37 pm
walker wrote:Thanks mate, the diffs will already be out so I might see how much Range-Rov will charge to check it out. How about you get your's installed ASAP. If everything fits fine (which I expect it will) then it is just more ammunition for me.
Mick, I don't want to hear anymore from you!!! And for that $1400 I pulled the diffs out myself and will put them back in. It was meant to cost $480. Now they have supplied and installed all new pinion and carrier bearings so i am willing to pay more. I think it would be very generous if I offered $900 for all the work.
My problem is if they won't accept my offer and it goes further then they are not going to give me my diffs back.
my lips are sealed!!
Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:47 pm
walker wrote:How about you get your's installed ASAP. If everything fits fine (which I expect it will) then it is just more ammunition for me.
Sorry man, I still have to upgrade carriers to lockers and then get axles so I'm a ways off yet!
Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:12 pm
I'd be making a call to the MTAA or similar body in your state. Even $480 is on the higher end of the scale. Did you need new carriers?
People only charge $250 - 300 to install air lockers and that can be big job if things don't go well.
If he is a reputable shop he will admit he farked up and commit to his original quote. If your old carrier was stuffed, then those parts costs and freight are fair, but thats it.
People only charge $250 - 300 to install air lockers and that can be big job if things don't go well.
If he is a reputable shop he will admit he farked up and commit to his original quote. If your old carrier was stuffed, then those parts costs and freight are fair, but thats it.
Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:53 pm
No, I did not need new carriers. The price of $480 was for both ends ie. $240/end. I have no problems with this as I was quoted $350/end by 2 other places. It is only the fact that they are charging me extra because allegedly the bearings did not fit that I have a problem with.
What is the MTAA?
What is the MTAA?
Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:55 pm
Ok, I can answer my own question. The VACC is the Victorian body.
Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:29 am
Thats 3hrs at $80 an hour per diff, or 6 hrs for the two, there can be some stuffing around with setting up the backlash etc but stillwalker wrote:No, I did not need new carriers. The price of $480 was for both ends ie. $240/end. I have no problems with this as I was quoted $350/end by 2 other places. It is only the fact that they are charging me extra because allegedly the bearings did not fit that I have a problem with.
What is the MTAA?
Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:32 am
Amazing. I went down to see the installer this morning to sort everything out. This time I understood a lot more about the process thanks to you guys and had all the bearing info. (thanks Dave for the info).
I went in and asked to see the diffs and suddenly the story changes and it now makes a lot more sense although not a lot less dollars.
Only the the rear diff was machined even though I was told that both had been done. The outer pinion bearing on the rear diff had worn and had been moving around a lot and had worn the area where the outer race touches the diff housing. They had to machine this area and then install a slightly larger bearing. That's it....nothing else too it. And since only one diff is machined the price has been reduced slightly.
Now another technical question. I asked why the install price is so expensive given that they did not have to do that much extra work. I was told that a lot of it is due to the carrier bearings. He said there are different quality grades of bearings. ie. when 100 bearings are made they are tested and there might only be 4 perfect ones while the other 96 are graded as general bearings. Since the carrier bearings are so crucial and often wear he always uses the "top grade" bearings which are a lot more expensive.
Now I have never heard this before but that does not mean it's not true. Anyone know the truth?
I went in and asked to see the diffs and suddenly the story changes and it now makes a lot more sense although not a lot less dollars.
Only the the rear diff was machined even though I was told that both had been done. The outer pinion bearing on the rear diff had worn and had been moving around a lot and had worn the area where the outer race touches the diff housing. They had to machine this area and then install a slightly larger bearing. That's it....nothing else too it. And since only one diff is machined the price has been reduced slightly.
Now another technical question. I asked why the install price is so expensive given that they did not have to do that much extra work. I was told that a lot of it is due to the carrier bearings. He said there are different quality grades of bearings. ie. when 100 bearings are made they are tested and there might only be 4 perfect ones while the other 96 are graded as general bearings. Since the carrier bearings are so crucial and often wear he always uses the "top grade" bearings which are a lot more expensive.
Now I have never heard this before but that does not mean it's not true. Anyone know the truth?
Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:36 am
That is the biggest load of BULLSHIT I have ever heard..
When I replaced my bearings, I went to the bearing shop, asked for the parts and paid for them..
Never had a problem with these "inferior" ones before..
Maybe Loanrangie will chime in.. his Dad is a bearing specialist..
When I replaced my bearings, I went to the bearing shop, asked for the parts and paid for them..
Never had a problem with these "inferior" ones before..
Maybe Loanrangie will chime in.. his Dad is a bearing specialist..
Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:42 am
i am bleeding from biting my lips so hard!!! Biggest load of wombat crap i ever heard!!
Sorry to say but it think this guy takes u for a fool!!!!!
Mick
Sorry to say but it think this guy takes u for a fool!!!!!
Mick
Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:44 am
SETTING UP NEW RATIO'S IS DIFFERENT TO INSTALLING AN AIRLOCKER, with the 4.11's you needed to install a new pinion which requires the pinion heaight to be correct, which is alot of fooling around with with a dummy shaft in the carrier posi. and getting the correct height by shimming, remember we are working to thousands of an inch here to!
Then you haveto get the bearing preload correct, guess what more shimming
and time with fish scales, so constantly pulling out in out in to try new shims and recheck height then backlash kinda gets time consuming, its also the difference between a good job and a bad one
You can check your gear contact with a little bearing blue and that will tell you whether its set up correcly Backlash means FARK all compared to the blue of the gears, this determines gear life and noise.
Most people know little about diffs
You have been FARKED over big time, and its all YOUR fault 'cause you agreed to pay, just get someone who knows what there talking about, i highly suggest a diff specialist NOT a rangie or 4WD one, so you dont FARK a new set of gears, get it moving and tell everyone how much they ripped you off.
Then you haveto get the bearing preload correct, guess what more shimming
and time with fish scales, so constantly pulling out in out in to try new shims and recheck height then backlash kinda gets time consuming, its also the difference between a good job and a bad oneYou can check your gear contact with a little bearing blue and that will tell you whether its set up correcly Backlash means FARK all compared to the blue of the gears, this determines gear life and noise.
Most people know little about diffs
You have been FARKED over big time, and its all YOUR fault 'cause you agreed to pay, just get someone who knows what there talking about, i highly suggest a diff specialist NOT a rangie or 4WD one, so you dont FARK a new set of gears, get it moving and tell everyone how much they ripped you off.
Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:51 am
that a bit harsh we arnt all experts.... he has been a bit unlucky!!cloughy wrote:SETTING UP NEW RATIO'S IS DIFFERENT TO INSTALLING AN AIRLOCKER, with the 4.11's you needed to install a new pinion which requires the pinion heaight to be correct, which is alot of fooling around with with a dummy shaft in the carrier posi. and getting the correct height by shimming, remember we are working to thousands of an inch here to!
Then you haveto get the bearing preload correct, guess what more shimming
You can check your gear contact with a little bearing blue and that will tell you whether its set up correcly Backlash means FARK all compared to the blue of the gears, this determines gear life and noise.
Most people know little about diffs
You have been FARKED over big time, and its all YOUR fault 'cause you agreed to pay, just get someone who knows what there talking about, i highly suggest a diff specialist NOT a rangie or 4WD one, so you dont FARK a new set of gears, get it moving and tell everyone how much they ripped you off.
Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:09 am
I wasn't being nasty to walker, none the less he'll need to pay BUT i do feel sorry for the suckers you go to these reputable places and get reamed, and for most people not knowing about diffs they don't and i'm not an expert, i took the time to learn of a mates old boy who Knows the shit and I PERSONALLY thought there was little to it, not know changing the pinion is where the works at
I was also highlighting the work involved, hope that makes me sound ever so nicer again, i'm not god with my ritten.
I was also highlighting the work involved, hope that makes me sound ever so nicer again, i'm not god with my ritten.
Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:11 am
umm.. cloughy is right though..
these guys honestly dont sound like they know what they are doing..
but it is not Walkers fault for choosing these guys on recomendations from others..
these guys honestly dont sound like they know what they are doing..
but it is not Walkers fault for choosing these guys on recomendations from others..
Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:12 am
Thankyou Mick, you can talk now. 
But he is right, a lot of it is my fault because I agreed to it. I should have done a lot more research on it beforehand but but but............
But in my defence, a couple of people I know did refer me to this place as an expert, he has done some good work on my 4wd's before, he races Disco's and the people who improt the gears are booked in to get there 4.11's installed at the same place.
But in hindsight I should have just got LRA to supply and install them.
And to think that this is the first work on the Rangie I have ever NOT done myself.
Oh well, it's all over now finished ended!
But he is right, a lot of it is my fault because I agreed to it. I should have done a lot more research on it beforehand but but but............
But in my defence, a couple of people I know did refer me to this place as an expert, he has done some good work on my 4wd's before, he races Disco's and the people who improt the gears are booked in to get there 4.11's installed at the same place.
But in hindsight I should have just got LRA to supply and install them.
And to think that this is the first work on the Rangie I have ever NOT done myself.
Oh well, it's all over now finished ended!
Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:14 am
when do we go out and break them??
Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:16 am
I believe LRA send them away to a diff specialist as well..
Setting diffs up is an art form..
It takes more than a spaaner monkey to do it right..
Setting diffs up is an art form..
It takes more than a spaaner monkey to do it right..
Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:16 am
mickrangie wrote:when do we go out and break them??
Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:21 am
LRA did mine and they just send them off but the price was around 100 buks per end from memory...landy_man wrote:I believe LRA send them away to a diff specialist as well..
Setting diffs up is an art form..
It takes more than a spaaner monkey to do it right..
Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:21 am
Which car you going in? Your Subi could go further than your RR atm!mickrangie wrote:when do we go out and break them??
Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:38 am
or the navTuffRR wrote:Which car you going in? Your Subi could go further than your RR atm!mickrangie wrote:when do we go out and break them??
Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:00 pm
Um, I had a price form LRA and from memory it was $600/end including bearings.mickrangie wrote:LRA did mine and they just send them off but the price was around 100 buks per end from memory...landy_man wrote:I believe LRA send them away to a diff specialist as well..
Setting diffs up is an art form..
It takes more than a spaaner monkey to do it right..
Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:46 pm
I didnt need new bearings cause i had changed them only months before
installing 4.11's
Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:02 pm
don't be too quick to recomend LRA
They set up my 4.11's.
I was back three times for front pinion seals/ bearings and rear is noisy.
IMHO some of the so called specialists are either out to line their pockets or just stupid. Salesmanship is very much like bullshit.
If you want a straight answer even if you don't like it, Fred smith, AMV, Anthony Johnson
Might seem like sour grapes but I paid good money to get things done right , they wern't and I was fed bullshit.
Walker don't let it happen to you.
They set up my 4.11's.
I was back three times for front pinion seals/ bearings and rear is noisy.
IMHO some of the so called specialists are either out to line their pockets or just stupid. Salesmanship is very much like bullshit.
If you want a straight answer even if you don't like it, Fred smith, AMV, Anthony Johnson
Might seem like sour grapes but I paid good money to get things done right , they wern't and I was fed bullshit.
Walker don't let it happen to you.
Re: installing 4.11's
Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:08 pm
swamp wrote:don't be too quick to recomend LRA
They set up my 4.11's.
I was back three times for front pinion seals/ bearings and rear is noisy.
IMHO some of the so called specialists are either out to line their pockets or just stupid. Salesmanship is very much like bullshit.
If you want a straight answer even if you don't like it, Fred smith, AMV, Anthony Johnson
Might seem like sour grapes but I paid good money to get things done right , they wern't and I was fed bullshit.
Walker don't let it happen to you.
I reckon AMV are a bunch of tools!!! wouldn’t work on my rangie cause they thought it shouldn’t be used off road..... how’s that for arrogant!!
BTW all 4.11 are noisy at about 60kmh in the rear... just the cut of the gears