Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hello again..!

The interest & f/b is great! 'uninformed' is spot-on with the axle info:
Kirkstall Forge Engineering were indeed the Leeds-based company who did do some casting work for Roadless Traction on this project; this would
appear to be in the banjo & swivel housing areas at least; more than that, we know little as time erodes memories & people pass on...

Kirkstalls were initially swallowed by GKN (who themselves are of course part of Dana Corp. now)

The rear axles are as 'complete' a looking assembly as you'd expect to find on any non-steering axle........The front however is clearly modified
where widened, & braced to add strength, in much the same way that the GMC units were shortened for tractor application. (Gas torch & welder.!!)

Bill, like you, I too have often wondered why Roadless did'nt use the
land rover diff at least.....but I think that the reason for this was that
it was felt that they may not handlle the torque generated by having planetaries & big wheels on the ends....The gearing down (..if I understand
the system correctly..?) halves the load on engine & transmission, plus the top speed (from 70 mph to 35 mph) but doubles the torque ...or something like that...??? (basically, as a driver, all I know is it lets a
bog-standard 2&1/4l. turn tall tyres effortlessly......it accelerates fast until
it runs out of cogs & revs...)
Having owned a Holden 186S (Monaro engine) Series 1 when living in NZ in the early '80's, this little truck could squeak its tyres.....usually just before de-splining its halfshafts or collapsing the pinion carrier, I learnt about the strength of the late-'50s-early '60s materials the expensive way,
but I don't think the two pinion centres would have stood up to the power-to-overrun torques that you can feel run right back onto the engine when deccelerating....at least not for very long anyway!

Stability....well, yes, driven carefully, they are reasonably stable even on sideslopes, but the narrower rear track means that one wheel will always choose the path of least resistance, & follow in the rut of a front one, so they will 'crab' horribly in certain conditions...& on a hillside, this will mean that with the physics involved (lower side wheel carries more weight) the rear always follows that lower front wheel. This puts the 'crab' across the slope (drawing the rear downwards) & slightly favouring the upperwards front wheel with an 'up-hill' angle...
As with any open diff....that uphill front wheel (with less weight) is the one that gets 50% of the torque, right..? With tall wheels, that can mean
unpredictable handling.....one could imagine it clipping a carefully-nurtured Forestry Comission tree root, drawing the steering sharply uphill
& next thing, arse-over-head you go as the rear digs in..

(Our one has been over on its side many years ago...much to my father's embarrassment....no damage that was'nt put right with a block of wood & a sledgehammer...... ....but I don't think any of the above theory was involved on that occasion..!!!)

Diff locks & keeping axles same width go a long way to improving the
handling of other makes...Unimogs don't suffer from this & their CofG is higher than the Roadless by about 4-6".
Contrary to whats written, the difference in track widths is not for making
wheels make their own tracks....its to give the front end some steering lock...the footwells on the bulkhead are also shaved, with the result that the accelerator pedal is moved in more towards the brake, & the brake pedal has its pad rewelded offset to standard...so its closer to the clutch.

As for other handling traits.....if the brakes are kept in good fettle, it is possible to lock all 4 wheels below about 5-6 mph, otherwise, they are a bit 'vague' to say the least....they will slow it reasonably, but it pays to use the engine & gearing to do the work.

It strolls across ditches that would trap a standard 16" wheel, but can also
climb a good step if traction permits.
Where it scored here in the Falklands was back in the '60's when people started using more mechanised transport ( that was'nt a tractor or Bren-Gun Carrier or even a horse..!!) in the un-roaded 'Camp' rural area; we had a 65 mile overland journey to Stanley (the town) & especially in wintertime, folk with
standard wheeled Land Rovers would actually wait a few days before making the journey from further-outlying farms just in order to travel in convoy with it.
Of course it was way ahead of its time...& twice the price of a Regular88"
....so by the time other farmers felt that they should get similar trucks, the production of axles had ceased, & the last remaining vehicle(s) had been sold.....we still have letters on file from Ven Dodge of R/T to my father offering farmers first dibs at them.....

(An alternative type aquired by the Falkland Islands Trading Co at around the same time was a pair of 109" Station Wagons, with 1-Ton
chassis lifts & 900x16 wheels....one of these was owned for along time by
my uncle on a neighbouring property, & am pleased to say that we did eventually manage to aquire it for the collection (swapped it for a heap of
old Honda trikes we'd ceased using...such is the way trade goes..)

As a vehicle to ride in, generally, it was comfortable, stable on all main tracks, fast, & could carry a good load as well.
Its work reduced when my father got his PPL & flew a 172 for about 20
years (this with the back seat out & 1/4 tanks) would carry as much as a
SWB L/R & did the journey in 20 minutes, & 1/6th of the fuel.....
But we still used it around the property, for fence maintenance & other work until about the time I built a swamp-crawler Forward-Control out of the 3 that had come to the islands over the years, & which could carry awesome loads in comparison; since then it has become something of an heirloom that we promise ourselves we'll restore one day...

(Its actually done well...it even got to South Georgia on its delivery down here....It was deck cargo on a Danish ship that had to go there first to unload supplies, & was actually offloaded so's they could get in the hatch)

btw, going back to the conflict in '82, what seems to be the confusing issue over vehicles comandeered by the Argentines is that we had a SWB
L/R in a shed at Stanley airport for use as a tender for the aircraft, & the
buggers got that fairly early on on April 2nd.....
(...Tough as old boots that little Landie, it was already ex-MOD, a'61 IIA
all they managed to do was knock the exhaust off & paint it Galtieri green
but it used to get around with up to 14 of them crammed in it....till the last day & they bogged it during the surrender..! Then our Bomb Disposal guys give it hell for a while till their kit got here, & after a few others aborted attempts to do things with it, it was brought out to the farm & I rebuilt it in 1985....and still have it.. It was used in a factory ad campaign some years ago, which was a fitting salute to its construction all those years ago...)

I'd better stop waffling here...you fellers must be asleep & I'm burning bandwidth...

....Oh, & we do have a metalled road now after a long time...& after running one of the best Land Rovers ever built; a V8 101" (on huge
tractor grips) for past 8 years, have sacreligeously gone 'half-Yank' & we now have a '91 Dodge 50 Reynolds-Boughton 4x4 dualcab with a Perkins 1004T engine ........which is a real beast & great fun..

WOW - sounds like you and your vehicles have had a pretty amazing history - feel free to keep waffling.

most definetly, very interesting reading.
Michael.

Yes indeed Nick, very informative,thankyou very much, and keep waffling.
I will just clear up a point or two about reduction hubs. A hub reduction of say 3:1 multiplies the torque received from the differential by a factor of 3.
Therefore the diff is only subject to one third the stress than it would be without hub reduction. The 11.00x28 tyres at 50"are less than twice the diameter of a 7.50x16 tyre at about 31", so a standard 4.7:1 Rover diff plus a 2:1 hub reduction driving a 50" diameter tyre would be under less stress than a standard diff driving a 31" tyre. But just for good measure they could have used the stronger 3.9 :1 rover car diff and 3.00:1 hub reduction which would have been more than adequate, would have made the whole shebang easier and cheaper to produce, with few concerns about spares availability.
I am not sure I agree with you that the vehicle was way ahead of its time.
The engineering is pretty basic. but I think if properly thought out and sorted, it would have been exactly right for the times. Rover were well established, with little competition in worldwide markets. There were still many undeveloped parts of the world that would have been ideal for an affordable high mobility tractor come pickup truck.
By the way Nick, Isn't it just the cab on the RB 50 that is Dodge/Renault?
And isn't that the vehicle that the British army had so many problems with?
Anyway, I will stop waffling for tonight, and talk to you all again soon.
Regards Bill.

Yes Bill but there would be some factors relating to the LOAD on the back axle as well as the torque. I think the truck would be breaking axles and diffs if it had a std rover rear. Just like a stock 109" IIA tends to break more rear halfshafts than a stock 88" IIA since the 109 is hauling around heavier loads on the same axle. Yet the torque each are seeing is the same. Maybe with a 3.9 it would have been OK though.

Maybe Nick means ahead of it's time because back then people weren't really into recreational 4x4ing like they are now - and the lack of diff locks probably meant that most people would just buy a cheap tractor instead (even a 2x4). Maybe overpriced for its time would be more accurate.

Yes Ben, price is definately what killed the project according to the historiens. I was just trying to demonstrate how the costs could have been drastically reduced by using many in house off the shelf components. rather than buying in too many specially made ones.
The example I gave of 3.9 diffs and 3.00 hubs would still have resulted in an axle assembly including the big tyres effectivelyabout 50% stronger than a standard series 2 4.7 axle on 7.50s'.
Incidently, I read a book a couple of years ago about the Roadless traction Company. Apparently they were great innovaters, but also had a reputation for "untidy improvisation" and sometimes dodgy engineering.
One example given was that to cut costs they would use only 1 sun gear in their planetary hubs for the tractors whereas conventional engineering practice is to use 3 or 4 sun gears. Because the reduction units on the R.T are relatively small I think they would have the full compliment of sun gears.
The book was at an agricultural fair and cost $40, I only had $10 on me that day so I didn't buy it.
Howzat for waffling gentlemen? I'm going to bed.
Regards Bill.

Bill, Many thanks for the explanation on axle loadings......it does all make me wonder more & more what was behind it all, & how they chose the components used.

When I said that it was 'way ahead of its time....I meant it certainly was down here...hence the comparison with the SWB price.

In 1962, the R/T 109" cost around £2300 (which was more than a lot of 4WD tractors were....our R/T B-450 was £1750 in 1964), & the price for a
'Regular 88' (as the swb's were called) with a full-length ragtop, was £675! I'll bet even the bean-counters at Forestry Comission had trouble with that one....!!

I think too, that if it was going to be evaluated as a concept for recreational & other off road users, it would have been done differently,
but this was so just Forestry-requirement orientated for specific access tasks, they did it with minimum alternative use options in mind.
(...& come to that, if it had been built as the F-C began to think later, it would probably have steered at both ends, had two sodding great winches, a crane in the middle, joystick steering plus a rollcage & diff-locks.......& been painted yellow..!! ).

..A split chassis like a Gama-Goat would have made a hell of a difference
to it...have the tub moving separate to the cab.

Yes, the reduction hubs on these axles have 3 'sun-gears' in them.
The thing about this is....it was a 'Rover-approved' conversion (as opposed to a 'factory option' or 'Special Projects Division' product.
So the dealerships did'nt actually have to 'push' it as a concept; if you wanted one, they sent you to Roadless Traction....if they even knew about it......the agents down here did'nt.!!

(The way my father found out about it was, he was in UK on leave, & was searching for a suitable off road vehicle that was a bit more modern than the ex-WD Bren Gun Carrier, & Dodge 3-tonner .....which was all the farm had apart from the BTD-6 'dozer & a motor-boat. (In those days, you were a brave man (or a fool) if you did'nt get around on tracked
machines here....the ground had'nt heard of 'global-warming'....& 40 years later, its quite different..!)

He'd looked at the Studebaker Weasel, Tucker Sno-Cat, VW SnowCat, & had turned his attention to the Cuthbertson 109" - which had received a bit of press out here as there were 3 Cuthbertson Albion-engined Water -Buffalo swamp crawler tractors already in the islands (engaged on ditch & drainage work).
So he was at that open day that was held somewhere near Solihull (where you see the Cuthbertson in pics driving into a pond).....& next thing was, along came the Roadless (& thats it on the day, in the pic at the top of this topic, twisting through a ditch, no rear body),..."...THAT'S
what we want.....dog's whatsits...!!"

(Thank god he did'nt get the Cuthbertson.....! They eat clutches for a pastime, need 40 acres to turn around in, & you needed to have a good budget for track maintenance..)

So this one has a full de-luxe cab, was fitted with the rear canopy & a
spare-wheel carrier that goes on the back (weighs a ton before you put the wheel on it.!!) & a capstan winch. In practise, the spare wheel always stayed home.....tyre levers & patches were easier to carry & use..!!
This one is still on the original tyres, about 2/3 tread still left, they're a Dunlop type.


Bit 'off-topic', I know, but yes, this 'Dodge' is pretty much only so in the cab...& it is very much of the same brew that is the R-B44. (We also have a UMM Transcat (forerunner to the Alter/AlterII)....I thought that was a 'bitsa'-built design, but this takes the biscuit..!
We still don't know much about it...we've no books, so have'nt a clue what the g/box, t/box or axles are from,(tho' the front diff looks Dana)
but we have located a scource of spares & hope he'll be able to reach us more when we're in UK later this year......I 'd happily discuss more if we
perhaps we made it a topic elsewhere....?? Would that be best..??

Im happy keep it in here, this is a very interesting topic.

Michael.

if any one does not want it here let me know.

So Nick, do you have access to a digital camera?? Be nice to see so good pics of the axles, suspension and the like.

...Oh yes, I can do digital pics, no worries, they won't be super hi-res (..as the server here is so slow they still transfer the data in morse code..)
but..
Where do I upload anything....thru' the 'add attachments' box is it..??

And...which was it you wanted pics of.....the Roadless or the Dodge..?

Yep, piccies of the Roadless. Any bits that are non-Series......

Browse.... Add attachement

And pics of anything else you care to post - Land Rover and non Land Rover.

....Right..lets see if i can do this right..!

.......Aw! SH*T!!!

Pics going to need some fiddly resizing (800x640 pixels max does'nt sound very big to me.....how do I relate that to Kb's ....my pics are around 50-60Kb or so...Already been downsized..)

..Sorry, still learning how to use this...when I said they send data in morse, I did'nt let on we only stopped lighting fires on hilltops to each other a few years ago....

It'll depend on what you are using to manage the pictures.

If you want to keep them in original size, you can send them to me and I'll stick them up on my site. PM me for my e-mail address.

Otherwise Nick, if you don't have suitable resizing software feel free to send them to me and I will resize and post them on here.

In the meantime here are some studebaker truck pics I found. 4x4 and 6x6, both from the early-mid 40's. I can't read the axle specs because my cyrillic (sp?) isn't good enough.

...Hi guys..!

Thanks for all the offers of help..! Ben, all the pics I have of the Roadless are same as I sent you before....& that is the size I have them saved at. (Do you want to use them or wait till I get another chance to take pics...? Not so easy at moment as it hemmed in by a ton & 1/2 of grass seed...)

Half the game with this thing is remembering what it was you did last time....we have Photoshop LE 4 on an ME main programme.....it seems
as suitably robust for 'beginners' as 101" gearboxes are for military use,
& I will have another go, (red90 in Canada....will p/m you ...thanks..as it may be another way to present the other pics .....& will take a pic of the axle on the B-450....

The Studebaker 6x6 you have put up the pic of shows quite clearly the split diff Bill referred to on that type of truck....the vehicle itself isn't otherwise a lot different to the 2 & 1/2 ton GMCs that Roadless used axles from for the tractors....that basic REO/ Diamond T configuration seems to have been widely copied too. (The Argentines had several here during
1982 badged as 'Whites' which had been re-engined with the Merc 1114
n/a diesel,.....these were heavier, & had the 5-ton Rockwell toploader
axles.....in fact, I'm sure a mate still has the body-less remains of one down in his scrapyard.)

(We don't half save some junk around here....but a hell of a lot gets buried or ...years ago taken to the ranges ...or ... was sea-dumped..!!
...Not allowed of course now as part of environmental concerns.)

While I sort out the resizing of the other pics I have, I'll see if a pic of a
Dodge R-B twincab from the Dodge50 site will post...This truck is identical to ours & ours would have had a white cab too originally, only its
blue now..

...Also, this truck only has single rear wheels; ours has duals....the duallys
have a 2" offset wheelcentre fore-&-aft to allow interchangeability....

Hi Nick.

I can only find the one pic of your Roadless that I posted before (hard to keep track of all the files when you move countries). You can send me any others you've got.

I have nothing to add at this time. I just thought I would move this thread back on to page one.
Bill.

Bill - seeing you've taught me a bit lately I'll return the favour. ttt stands for "to the top" or btt stands for "back to top".

Soon we'll have you ROFLMAOing with the best of us.

Thanks Tuff RR, but I am a heck of a lot thicker than you may think, so
would you PLEASE EXPLAIN in more detail ?
Bill.

It's quite simple really Bill.....

AAMOF As A Matter Of Fact
ADGR All Donations Gratefully Received
ADN Any Day Now
AFAIAA As Far As I Am Aware
AFAICT As Far As I Can Tell
AFAIK As Far As I Know
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AI As If
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AKA Also Known As
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AWHFY Are We Having Fun Yet?
AWOL Absent WithOut Leave
AYT? Are You There?
B-) Smile from a person wearing glasses
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B2W Back To Work
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BAK Back At Keyboard
BAMF Bad Assed Mother F-er
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BTDT Been There, Done That
BTL Better Than Life
BTSOOM Beats The S*** Out Of Me
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BTTH Boot To The Head
BTW By The Way
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BWL Bursting With Laughter
BYOB Bring Your Own Bottle
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C&G Chuckle and Grin
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DHB Don't Hurry Back
DIIK Damned If I Know
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DL or D/L Download, transmit to you
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DQM Don't Quote Me
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IBM Inadequate Business Management
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IFU I F***'d Up
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M&#36 A well-known software company
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o:-) Angelic
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OL Old Lady (significant other)
OM Old Man (significant other)
OMG Oh My God
OOFA One Other F***ing Acronym
OOTB Out of the Box or Out of the Blue
OOTC Obligatory On Topic Comment
OPM Other Peoples Money
OTOH On The Other Hand
OT Off Topic
OTF On The Floor
OTL Out To Lunch
OTP On The Phone
OTT Off The Topic
OTTOMH Off The Top of My Head
OYA On Your **s
PCYLIHOONL Please Cross Your Legs, I Have Only One Nail Left
PD Public Domain
PDA Public Display of Affection
PDQ Pretty #### Quick
PDS Please Don't Shoot
PEBCAK Problem Exist Between Chair And Keyboard
PEBKAC Problems Exist Between Keyboard And Chair
PEKUSH Press Every Key Until Something Happens
PIMP Peeing In My Pants
PITA Pain In The A**
PM Private Message
PMFBI Pardon Me For Butting In
PMFJI Pardon Me For Jumping In
PMJI Pardon My Jumping In
PMP Peed My Pants
POAHF Put On A Happy Face
POS Pile/Piece Of S***
POS Point Of Sale
POSSLQ Person of Opposite Sex Sharing Living Quarters
POTC Peck On The Cheek
POV Point of View
PPL People
PPNE Please Post No Email
PS Post Script
PTMM Please Tell Me More
PU That stinks
PWYP Practice What You Preach
QSL Reply
QSO Conversation
QT Cutie
RE Regarding
REHI Hello Again
RFD Request For Discussion
RHP Read His/Her Post
RIP Requiescat In Pace = Rest In Peace
ROFL Rolling On Floor Laughing
ROFLAPMP ROFL And Peeing My Pants
ROFLMAO ROFL My A** Off
ROFLMAOAY ROFLMAO At You
ROFLMAOWTIME ROFLMAO With Tears In My Eyes
ROFLUTS ROFL Unable to Speak
ROTF Rolling On The Floor
ROTFL Rolling On The Floor Laughing
ROTFLAHMS Rolling On The Floor Laughing And Holding My Side
ROTFLMAO Rolling On The Floor Laughing My A** Off
ROTFUTS Rolling On The Floor Unable To Speak
RPTS Tonka That Stuff
RSN Real Soon Now
RTFM Read The F****** Manual!
RTFMSH Read The F**ing Manual S*** Head
RTM Read The Manual
RU Are You?<img src="http://infoprosjoint.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>???
RU4R Are You For Real
RU? Are You?
RUMF? aRe yoU a Male or Female?
RUOK Are You Okay
SARO Smart **s Reply Only
SAYL Sorry About Your Luck
SBPH Should Be Posted Here
SETE Smiling Ear To Ear
Sh8 ****
SHID Slaps Head In Disgust
SHIT Sure Happy It's Thursday
SIS Smokin Is Smokin
SITD Still in the Dark
SMO Serious Mode On or Safe Mode Only
SMOff Serious Mode Off
SNAFU Situation Normal: All F***- Up
SNERT Snot-Nosed Egotistical Rude Teenager
SO Significant Other
SOB Do you really need *me* to explain this one?
SOE Silly/Stupid Operator Error
SOHF Sense Of Humour Failure
SOL S*** Out of Luck
SOMY Sick Of Me Yet?
SOS Same Old S***/Stuff
SOT Short Of Time
SOTMG Short Of Time Must Go
SPAM SPiced hAM. Hormel's canned meat.
SRHI So Rumor Has It
ST-TNG Star Trek, The Next Generation
ST-TOS Star Trek, The Original Series
STB Simply The Best
SW ShareWare
SWAG Scientific Wild **s Guess
SWAK Sealed With A Kiss
SWAS Scientific Wild A** Guess
SWINGO She Who Must Be Obeyed (The Wife)
SWL Screaming with Laughter
SWMBO She Who Must Be Obeyed
SYL See You Later
SYS See You Soon
SYSADMIN SYStem ADMINistator
SYSOP SYStem OPerator
TA Thanks Again
TA The Acronoym
TAFN That's All For Now
TAL Thanks A Lot
TANJ There Ain't No Justice
TANSTAAFL There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
TARFU Things Are Really F'd Up
TAT TurnAround Time
TBIB The Bitch/Bastard Is Back
TC Telephone Call
TCOY Take Care Of Yourself
TDM Too Darn Many
TEOFWAWKI The End of the World As We Know It
TFS Thanks For Sharing
TGIF Thank God Its Friday
TIA Thanks in Advance
TIA Thanks In Advance
TIAFI Tried It And F- It
TIATLG Truly, I Am The Living/Loving God
TIC Tongue in Cheek
TID Thread Is Deteriorating
TILII Tell It Like It Is
TITBTTHSF This Is The Best Thing That Happened So Far
TITC This Is The Crosslink
TLA Three Letter Acronym
TLG The Living God
TMBCU Till My Bowels Cramp Up
TMF To Much Fun
TMTT Too Much To Type
TNT Till Next Time
TNTL Trying Not To Laugh
TNX Thanks
TOY Thinking Of You
TPTB The Powers That Be
TTBOMK To The Best Of My Knowledge
TTFN Ta Ta For Now
TTT Time To Twist
TTUL Talk (or Type) To You Later
TTYL Talk To You Later
TVM Thanks Very Much
TW Two Weeks
TWBAR That Would Be A Riot
TWIS That's What I Said/Stated
TWF That was fun
TX Thanks
TYVM Thank You Very Much
UL or U/L Upload, send to the BBS
unPC unPolitically Correct
VBG Very Big Grin
VC Virtual Community
VGI Very Good Idea
W/O Without
WABOL What A Bunch Of Losers
WAG Wild A** Guess
WB Welcome Back
WBS Write Back Soon
WDTM What Does That Mean
WEG Wicked Evil Grin
WFM Works For Me
WGAS Who gives a S***
WHYD What Have You Done?
WOB Waste Of Bandwidth/Brainpower
WOBTAM Waste Of Both Time And Money
WOFTAM Waste Of Flaming Time and Money
WRT With Regard To
WRUF? Where are you From?
WTF What The F***?
WTG Way To Go
WTH What The ####?
WTH What/Who The Heck (or sub an 'F' for the 'H')
WTHDTM What The #### Does That Mean?
WUASTC Wake Up And Smell The Coffee
WUF? Where are you From?
WYGIWYPF What You Get Is What You Pay For
WYMM Will You Marry Me
WYSIWYG What You See Is What You Get
WYWH Wish You Were Here
XHNS eXtra Hot N' Spicy
YA Yet Another
YABA Yet Another Bloody Acronym
YAFIYGI You Asked For It, You Got It
YBS You'll Be Sorry
YDAGWYW You Don't Always Get What You Want
YG Young Gentleman
YGM You got mail..... lol just added it. :biggrin:
YGWYPF You Get What You Pay For
YHBW You Had/Have Been Warned
YHM You Have Mail
YKYBHTLW You Know You've Been Hacking Too Long When
YKYS You Know Your S***
YL Young Lady
YM Young Man
YMBJ You must be joking
YMMV Your Mileage May Vary.
YOY Why Oh Why
YSWUS Yea, Sure Whatever You Say!
YWSYLS You Win Some You Lose Some
ZIAO Zoning In And Out

thanks again Tuff RR, It is quite simple when you know how. OR
TATRRIIQSWYKH. Bill.

OMFG!!!

Thats a big list.... I would say it would be easier to just write what you wanted rather then learn a new lang to use this forum....

My 2 cents

MIck

....I had a feeling when Bill said he was 'just moving this topic back to the first page', that there may have been a little nudge in there..!

Now then, lets have another go ( my pics were only a couple of pixels oversize one way too..!!) & see if they go.

Rock 'n roll..!! "Look ma! No hammer needed..!"

.....Sorry, but have had to upload image No7 horizontally to enable the largest possible clear pic to be uploaded in space available...but you guys will be able to download & stand it up again, right..?

I'll sort out some more (other vehicle) pics another night, but this is all I have of the Roadless at the moment ...plus that one Ben posted on page1.

Thanks for the picks Nick. No there wasn't a subtle nudge. It is just that if a topic slips off page one then a lot of casual browsers who may have an interest or knowledge of the subject matter may not know it exists.
my first observation fom the photo's is that the overall height of the Roadless Landey is not a lot greater than the standard landey beside it. My second observation is that the swivel balls are welded, not bolted on.
The only latish british built 4x4's I have seen with welded swivel balls are LR 101's and StoneFields. As far as I am aware most British 4x4's from even very early times had bolt on swivel balls, which to me suggests that your front axle has some components of US origin.
Bill.

Looks great Nick, thanks for the pics. Any pics of the front diff centre?

..Hi Bill..! Ah, fair enough too....I was acutely aware that I needed to
get at the task..!

Ben....I'll have to try & get diff pics within the building the truck is in...to do that I need some sunlight...& we are'nt seeing a lot of that this winter...!!
But...yes....very soon.! (& perhaps then some eagle eyes might be able to torpedo some myths for us...... ...probably turn out to be out of
something really common at the time ...like a Mk1 Zephyr )

Bill, yes, the swivels are welded on....but all Roadless axle swivels were so that would also be in line with what you suggest...you can see the beefing up quite clearly where the extension tubes been added too...

(Must get under the Dodge again ...think that has welded-on swivels too)

The Roadless ones are no bigger than the 101" ones....I think if I were tring to build replica axles with current knowledge base, I'd try & fit 101"
tubes & swivels to either an ENV diff (or this new big round thing thats appeared under recently-arrived new Defenders on the backend..?)

You are also right about the height.....the clearance under the diffs if memory serves right is 14"...but the truck is not high to get into: the extra wheel dia lifts it by about 10-12" or so. (Used to be a long way down if you stopped, straddling a shithole in a gateway tho'....was even worse
when we built the F/C...passengers used to disappear with a scream, coats hung up on door handles & allsorts...! ...Come up swearing afterwards, muttering...!!) You forget you are'nt in a normal-bodied, standard height L/R with some of these conversion trucks that have a
very normal-looking cab..