Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Strange Rover wrote:
I think my reputation can handle me throwing some shiat your way after you implied you paid money for complete functioning system when in actual fact you bought a landrover wreck. Not like I said you should jam your traction control into an orrifice or anything.

Sammy

well as far as i know i PAID for a complete new system. (minus some brackets and a compressor) and you sent the rest of it as new.

I origionally asked if you could leave the system on the car that you had origionally installed, but you said it was a prototype and you would remove it and supply a new one.

So Yes, i did purchase a landrover wreck. but i also purchased what i was told was a complete, uninstalled functioning system.


(also bentzook, can you let Sam reply to this one, and stop using his login.)


Andy

Why dont you guys sort it out through pms or punch ups,rather than destroying the name of a reputiable buisiness that gives so much support in organizing a sport we love.

The "reputable business" is doing a good job on their own of destroying thier name.

WRXZook wrote:The "reputable business" is doing a good job on their own of destroying thier name.

Do you even know what Haultech does?

They have one of the best (if not the best) reputation in their main field of business. It has nothing to do with 4wding.

I think you will find that a couple of upset people on this site will have no effect on the sales of the main business.

All the 4wdrive stuff (like T/Control, Cv's Buggys) are all just a side hobby and makes no difference to the running of the business if we sell 1 or 100 T/C units. The income from the 4wdrive stuff is stuff all compared to the main business. All the 4wd stuff was built and designed primaraly for mates and mates of mates that wanted this stuff.

So at the end of the Day, it has no effect on Haultech if they deside to never sell another CV or Traction Control Unit simple as that. So a little bit of Bad news on here has absolutly NO EFFECT of the sales that makes Haultech their money.

I am sure they will set these guys up with what they need.

I wonder how people will feel when Haultech Pulls the pin on OUTERLIMITS???? Oh the irony.

POS wrote:

WRXZook wrote:The "reputable business" is doing a good job on their own of destroying thier name.

Do you even know what Haultech does?

They have one of the best (if not the best) reputation in their main field of business. It has nothing to do with 4wding.

I think you will find that a couple of upset people on this site will have no effect on the sales of the main business.

All the 4wdrive stuff (like T/Control, Cv's Buggys) are all just a side hobby and makes no difference to the running of the business if we sell 1 or 100 T/C units. The income from the 4wdrive stuff is stuff all compared to the main business. All the 4wd stuff was built and designed primaraly for mates and mates of mates that wanted this stuff.

So at the end of the Day, it has no effect on Haultech if they deside to never sell another CV or Traction Control Unit simple as that. So a little bit of Bad news on here has absolutly NO EFFECT of the sales that makes Haultech their money.

I am sure they will set these guys up with what they need.

I wonder how people will feel when Haultech Pulls the pin on OUTERLIMITS???? Oh the irony.

christ no, don't do that. i love this site and would hate to lose it because of a couple of plates with holes in them. or any other reason.

as for sam speaking his mind, i've always found his posts to be ones of someone who is very smart and articulate, and someone who knows what they are talking about. i'm not saying andrew is the same, but haven't read as many of his posts

peace guys, its time to move onto direct communication. ie the phone

POS wrote:

WRXZook wrote:The "reputable business" is doing a good job on their own of destroying thier name.

Do you even know what Haultech does?

They have one of the best (if not the best) reputation in their main field of business. It has nothing to do with 4wding.

I think you will find that a couple of upset people on this site will have no effect on the sales of the main business.

All the 4wdrive stuff (like T/Control, Cv's Buggys) are all just a side hobby and makes no difference to the running of the business if we sell 1 or 100 T/C units. The income from the 4wdrive stuff is stuff all compared to the main business. All the 4wd stuff was built and designed primaraly for mates and mates of mates that wanted this stuff.

So at the end of the Day, it has no effect on Haultech if they deside to never sell another CV or Traction Control Unit simple as that. So a little bit of Bad news on here has absolutly NO EFFECT of the sales that makes Haultech their money.

I am sure they will set these guys up with what they need.

I wonder how people will feel when Haultech Pulls the pin on OUTERLIMITS???? Oh the irony.

Do you want to root me if not fuck up and shut your mouth.

POS wrote: Oh the irony.

Actually the irony part is that over the years that Outerlimits has been running I have personely worked vey hard to defend companies that individuals members on Outerlimits have attacked. I have always known that bulliten boards provide a very easy and cheap way for individual people to try to destroy company reputations. Since creating outerlimits I very quickly became aware of this problem. The problem is so bad that most companies that perform any sort of custom 4wd vehicle work basically dont post here at all.

The ironic part is that now in this thread my own company is facing the exact same problem. A person that spent $2500 for a landrover wreck (included cromo shafts front ($600 new) and rear ($800new), strengthened CVs (600$ new), toyoty hilux 3rd members ($800 from a wrecker that looking after you) and hilux conversion (probably 100hours labour) plus new front guards, bonnet and grill ($1500)) now trying to damage my reputation. What he paid for is what he got. He never paid for a complete new traction control system. What he bought was a landrover wreck that once had a fully working traction control system (TT05). When he bought the landrover I swapped my origional prototype computer that I probably spent over 1000Hours to create for a computer that did the exact same thing that costs me twenty bucks. And now he thinks he bought a totally new system. Something I wouldnt sell to him for less that $1700 - so that means I sold him the wreck for $800.

Actually that isnt the ironic part.

The ironic part is that Andrew E is trying to damage Haultech's reputation using a web site that Haultech created and entirely pays for. I would guess that over the years (since 2002) Haultech has spent well over $20 000.00 in making this site exist. The only benefit the Haultech gets from having this site is the exact same benefit that any other person or company has from this site existing. We provide this site as a totally unbiased website and free service to the 4wd industry. We do this because 4wding is what we love. This is the ironic part.

Sam

bastard wrote:Why dont you guys sort it out through pms or punch ups,rather than destroying the name of a reputiable buisiness that gives so much support in organizing a sport we love.

Very good point!!!!!

At the end of the day, if I beileve that this is damaging me or Haultech's reptutation I can just delete all this stuff. If I think its really bad then I could just turn this site off - no probs. For what this site achieves for my buisness I can easily do without. The 4wd Monthly forum will satisify our needs given our close association with that magazine. Essencially the only bemefit we get from this site is for the WE Rock rockcrawling series that I run. And for that we also give Tuff Truck, Tuff Tracks, Oz Rock, Superior All Terrain, Xtreme MMM, Outback Challenge etc etc the same opportunity.

In reality, if Andrew E can damage my reputation in something that I honestly believe I have handled 100% right then there is no place for a 100% totally independant bulletin board in this world.

If I carnt handle this dickweed in an open public forum that what chance does a paying advertiser have of surviving in this game without blatent sensorship.

Sam

andrew e wrote:
well as far as i know i PAID for a complete new system. (minus some brackets and a compressor) and you sent the rest of it as new.

I origionally asked if you could leave the system on the car that you had origionally installed, but you said it was a prototype and you would remove it and supply a new one.

So Yes, i did purchase a landrover wreck. but i also purchased what i was told was a complete, uninstalled functioning system.


(also bentzook, can you let Sam reply to this one, and stop using his login.)


Andy

You are a fawkin idiot.

The only thing new that you purchased was a "new" computer that cost me 20 bucks to make cause I didnt want to give you the origional prototype computer that was installed in the actual car.

This is what Andrew E bought. Minus the wheels and tyres.









Now notice in the last 2 pics the air over hydraulic master cylinders (2 units in each photo). This is the condition of the system as Andrew E bought it. The sensors were in even worse condition and the computer was my origional prototype computer that cost me more than 1000 hours to get running and I would never give to anybody. The only thing "new" that Anderw E bought from me was the computer. The only reason that was a new item was that I didnt want to give him my prototype computer.

The traction control system as well as the landrover wreck was far from complete. Andrew E bought the car, including traction control system in the "as is" condition you see in these photos. He was fully aware of the items that were missing and was fully awre of what he needed to do to get everything up and running.

I have now come to the opinion that I wish I had never had anything at all to do with him.

But hey - thats life - you carnt help everybody.



Sam

bastard wrote:Why dont you guys sort it out through pms

To be honest when I saw this thread it had already been locked which would mean it would fall off the front page and nobody would see it - first thing I did was unlock it.

If I let it slide that would mean that simply because we own this site we can manipulate it to suit our our personell needs for our own benefits.

I think this would have been the easy route for me personally and probably a better and easier outcome for haultech but would have been very very bad for the Outerlimits web site and its totally impartial stance.

And besides all that, I always enjoy a good shiat fight - damn...back in the day I used to live for this stuff.

Sam

Just to drive a point home here is a thread that I posted on pirate. At this time i had built the traction control system that was installed in the wreck that Andrew E bought off me. This was back in 2001 before Outerlimits was even created (old snake racing days)

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthre ... ight=rover

At the time of this post my rig looked like the pick I posted inthe rover section members pics.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22051

And the traction control system that was in the landrover wreck that I sold to andrew e would have been built in 2000 - execpt for the brand new computer.

This means that the booster units that I posted in the pics above were almost 7 years old. And thinking about the sensors and brackets were even older because these were built when I had stock landrover diffs under the rangie before I swaped in the d44 in 2001.

So fark knows how Andrew e got the impression that he was buying a brand new traction control system when the stuff he was buying was over 7 years old except for a new $20 computer.

Damn.....I must be one hell of a salesman!!

Sam

Sorry i don't come into this tread much.


To Momo & andrew e : I will be back at work on the following week and i will try and get all this made up after work hours, so would you like to call sam on monday and tell him what you guys would like made up and he can pass it on to me and we will ship it to you asap. As i would like everyone to be happy. As for the t/c kits i have seen them work o some cars and they work very well and as far as i know we are still workiing on the ADR. And as for the t/c kit being a prototype system it well always have its teathin problems.


Anyway that is my 2 cents worths

Rodney...

haha Good find Sam, Even better bubsy just getting his license then too


I really think alot of whats been said in this thread is unnecessary...Andrew bought parts...thats it...no need to turn it into something its not

bastard wrote:Do you want to root me if not ***** up and shut your mouth.

Do i know you??

If so and this was meant to be a joke, i don't get it.

If i don't know you and you are sincere with you offer then come on over and i am sure i will be able to help you out.

Sam Just to clarify your point on the computer bit of this convo.
I assume when you say your 1000 hour prototype computer that you mean your first one you developed Which would have a bit of sentimental issues with it Plus no company on earth would sell the first of any kind of product that was used in the first development process of a product.
But not to confuse this with the T/C systems still being prototype developments.
Some would assume that when saying that the 1000 hour prototype computer was kept then the rest from then on are all like off the shelf finished developing systems which i gather is not so.
It has allways been stated that the T/C systems are all still in development prototype systems.
Correct me if i am wrong though please.

Also some good history lessons there on how the MOGROVER came to be.
Cheers Jamie

POS wrote:

bastard wrote:Do you want to root me if not ***** up and shut your mouth.

Do i know you??

If so and this was meant to be a joke, i don't get it.

If i don't know you and you are sincere with you offer then come on over and i am sure i will be able to help you out.

Sorry about that,i dont even remember getting on here last night,dont really even know were that came from.

nottie wrote:Sam Just to clarify your point on the computer bit of this convo.
I assume when you say your 1000 hour prototype computer that you mean your first one you developed Which would have a bit of sentimental issues with it Plus no company on earth would sell the first of any kind of product that was used in the first development process of a product.
But not to confuse this with the T/C systems still being prototype developments.
Some would assume that when saying that the 1000 hour prototype computer was kept then the rest from then on are all like off the shelf finished developing systems which i gather is not so.
It has allways been stated that the T/C systems are all still in development prototype systems.
Correct me if i am wrong though please.

Also some good history lessons there on how the MOGROVER came to be.
Cheers Jamie

Yep something like that. The origional prototype is what I hand made - lots and lots of individual wired hand soldered on a board with computer chips. Actually the computer in Chucks rangie is even older - his computer was the origional prototype. Im amazed his still works - its a couple of boards joined together with a mess of wires going everywhere. His board has had lots of modifications, theres chips on there that no longer do anything. Mine is very neat by comparison.

From then we got a proper circuit board professionally designed and made up - I think we got 20 of them done. We still call these systems "prototype" cause even though they work well they just arnt easy to install for other people (we can do but we are used to custom fitting stuff). It would selling sombody a diff lock and saying that they have to machine up the hemisphere to suit their diff.

Sam

I'm very sorry sam but you are mistaken. I have a recipt for $1500 for a traction control kit (you should be able to look it up from your end too). The rear brake actuators in the photos were removed when i bought the wreck, and the front ones were still there. These are sitting in my shed if you want them back, Because You sent me 4 NEW ONES, when you sent me the computer, along with 4 sensors and other stuff.

this is a photo of them when they arrived.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/8/2 ... .jpg&s=f10

[URL=http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3156487][img]http://f10.putfile.com/thumb/8/21703183127.jpg[/img][/URL]

Now sammy, I am sending you a pm with my phone number and if you want to continue this any further please feel free to call during buisness hours.


Thanks Rod that is a polite response somthing that was expected in the first place. I will call next week, POS did pm me the number, but i cant log in under andrew e, could you post it again?



By the way i have logged in under andy e as i am having troubles with my normal profile. i will delete this profile when i can log in again. i doubt this has anything to do with this thread, my antivirus is doing funny things lately.


Andy.

ps sam, thanks for those pics, i lost all the early ones you sent me when my computer crashed. Do you have any more?

Reckon this 'huhbub' is just the kind of reason manufacturers stop making cool shit for the masses

Not saying either side is right or wrong, just that this sort of exchange hurts us all in the long run

hey sam of topic but i asked this once before and didn't get a responce.

why do you think the defender rolled, just bad luck or did it have something to do with the air shocks or different link suspension.

just curious to know as i loved this truck and never got to know anything about it.

btw slotted bushes are GREAT

serg

ps. to any that have problems with a business, deal direct - 1st in person if possible and 2nd by phone. everything else sucks.

i know cause i tried to get some custom cv's made in the USA had big problems and took me 8 months to get my $3000 back. but just kept ringing and kept nice and got good service in the end.

the internet is not a communication tool its an infomation tool
BIG difference

uninformed wrote: why do you think the defender rolled, just bad luck or did it have something to do with the air shocks or different link suspension.

Easy -

SAM

That is all...

POS wrote:

uninformed wrote: why do you think the defender rolled, just bad luck or did it have something to do with the air shocks or different link suspension.

Easy -

SAM

That is all...

nah BS..it was the deceptively flat ground......



and Sam

not a good combination....

dave

from what i was told by sam, he had the front and rear axle winches loose and thought they were pulled tight.

Anyone got any pics of this? It made 4wd monthly at the time.

andy e wrote:I'm very sorry sam but you are mistaken. I have a recipt for $1500 for a traction control kit (you should be able to look it up from your end too). The rear brake actuators in the photos were removed when i bought the wreck, and the front ones were still there. These are sitting in my shed if you want them back, Because You sent me 4 NEW ONES, when you sent me the computer, along with 4 sensors and other stuff.

Fair enough - I sent you more than I thought. What I didnt send you was any of the stuff that installs those components into a specific vehicle.

What you have got there are just the basic traction control components that lets the system be fitted to absolutely anything with hydraulic wheel brakes.

The rest of the stuff is whatever was left on the landrover wreck.

You knew what you buying. You knew what you had to do to put the whole car together. You knew there wasnt any "wheel plates" cause I had the sensors picking up on the back of the rims.

andrew e wrote:The last time i spoke to you, you asked me if i could make them, and i said if i had a sample i might, but i'd prefer you to get them done.

Why whould you "prefer" me to get them done??? If you believed you paid money for the wheel plates why would you ever consider making them yourself.

All I was doing was trying to find some old plates that we should have lying around at work to help you out. It was all nice and friendly and casual.

This is why you said you could make them but would prefer for me to do them. There was no obligation on my part to make these components - the car you bought didnt have them.

But no you came on here and said

Its been over 12 months since i paid for my kit and i still dont have the wheel plates.

Thank you very much.

Maybe you should have said "Its been over 12 months since i paid for my kit and still havent got it going cause I havnt sorted out my wheel plates"

Sam

this is better than days of our lives

Shadow wrote:this is better than days of our lives

I would bloody well hope so!!

Sam

hmm i havent read a thred like for years... brings back memories of the mogrover on top of POS's rig at the 1st OLWW i still have that dvd

REMEMBER THIS!
http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o7/JAKE-DA-MUSS/

[quote="Strange Rover"]
You knew there wasnt any "wheel plates" cause I had the sensors picking up on the back of the rims.
[/quote]

if i knew this, we wouldn't be having this conversation now. why didn't you tell me 12 months ago i didnt need them?


[quote="Strange Rover"]Why whould you "prefer" me to get them done??? If you believed you paid money for the wheel plates why would you ever consider making them yourself.

All I was doing was trying to find some old plates that we should have lying around at work to help you out. [/quote]


why would i consider making them myself? because i was getting sick of being at the end of the que.

why would i prefer you to get them done or get us a sample? because i have never seen them before, id probebly have 2 or 3 goes before i got it right. how many holes? whats the PCD? etc

[quote="Strange Rover"]
But no you came on here and said
[quote]Its been over 12 months since i paid for my kit and i still dont have the wheel plates.[/quote]

Sam[/quote]

ok, i was out of line. It should never have got this far.

now can you shutup let this dickweed pull his traction control out of his ass.


Andy

Good to see this is all getting sorted out.

But I will have to agree with Sam... Its seems as though some better communication skills would have prevented this problem in the first place.