Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Well I'll be ....
The stupid thing has a petrol fan on it.
It had a full dealership service history in the glovebox when I bought it.
What stupid dealer would put a petrol fan on a diesel?
It's not a total solution, but it's yet ANOTHER piece of the puzzle falling into place.
This car will either break me, send me broke, or seperate my wife and I.
(or maybe all 3)

Note for "To Do List":
New fanblade, and maybe a diesel specific viscous coupling too.

Sheesh. This to do list is longer than my overdraught.

Ezookiel wrote:Well I'll be ....
The stupid thing has a petrol fan on it.
It had a full dealership service history in the glovebox when I bought it.
What stupid dealer would put a petrol fan on a diesel?
It's not a total solution, but it's yet ANOTHER piece of the puzzle falling into place.
This car will either break me, send me broke, or seperate my wife and I.
(or maybe all 3)

Note for "To Do List":
New fanblade, and maybe a diesel specific viscous coupling too.

Sheesh. This to do list is longer than my overdraught.

have you read my last reply, it is the solution to all your problems

i can't believe you have had this many issues mate i had the drama and was sorted with new radiator and thermostat and a dyno .

Madmac wrote:have you read my last reply, it is the solution to all your problems

I am starting to think this is a good option...

of4x4 wrote:.

Another long shot... your viscous hub looks like one off a petrol rather than a diesel. I know the petrol / diesel hubs require a different fan, but I'm not sure why - is it simply a different bolt pattern, or does the diesel fan move a greater volume of air (and thus your petrol one(?) is not pumping enough air when the going gets tough?)

on the note of the diesel blades and petrol blades, i cant be 100% sure, but i have a feeling that there is a difference between them, especially on the blade count,

they do have different bolt paturns between petrol and diesel on the fan its self, but the viscous hub bolt spacing to the pump is the same, give me 5mins and ill check the blade count,

ok, diesels hve 8 plades, spaced closish together,

i used to have a petrol blade, but i gave it away to help a guy out, so can someone count theirs please, i think the pitch on the blades might be different as well,

bogged wrote:

Madmac wrote:have you read my last reply, it is the solution to all your problems

I am starting to think this is a good option...

Yes

Trent, i think thats what your name is, correct me if im wrong.

Ive been following the saga of your over heating problems here and on downunder 4x4.net.
this has been on going for many months, you have asked many questions and according to your posts have spent many dollars with various mechanics trying to sort the problem out. but even though you have outlayed many dollars and asked 1 million questions you still have an ovar heating problem 12 months later!!!!

that leads me to believe you are suffering from one of the followinging problems

A: my car doesnt really overheat, i just have no friends and thought id bullshit on the net

B: my car does get hot, i believe everything every mechanic says even if it does cost me $2000 every time, and i dont have big enough balls to confront the mechanic when it doesnt fix my problem and my POS still over heats

C: Im on Acid and i dont give a f#ck if my GQ explodes, as long as it kills all outer limits members

sorry had to reply again and be more honest

Dude your ass is being reemed big time, the first mechanic should of solved all your probvlemsl

[quote="Madmac"][quote="bogged"][quote="Madmac"]
Trent, i think ... you are suffering from one of the followinging problems
A: ...
B: ...
C: ...

Try D:

D: I'm between a rock and a hard place. A car I can't afford to fix, and a car I can't afford to get rid of. I'd get SFA for it if I sold it, which wouldn't be enough to get anything similar, and with my previous car buying history (I bought an 87 Magna before this) I'm likely to buy some other pos with more serious problems.
D: It owes me, and I'm scared some person will buy it from me, and find that one last thing that I needed to do to fix it, and for next to nothing it will have gone to someone getting a huge bargain,
D: I have seriously limited funds so can't take it to a mechanic for much of the work, so have to do small jobs as I can find the money for them, combined with the fact that,
D: it is perfectly driveable for everyday use, so has given me a long long time to do those little jobs because the only thing it's doing at the moment is restricting my ability to go bush which I have little time for lately anyway,
D: The illogical fact that I love the rotten thing, love getting in it, love driving it, love the fact that it's identifiable immediately as it's quite unique to look at. Who wants a run of the mill GQ the same as all the others out there? I want something that people can recognize, and this fits that bill perfectly.
D: The only amounts I've spent on this car have been.
$2000 given to a work colleague that I had no reason to distrust, as an ex-mechanic who builds drag cars, I had good reason to believe he'd know how to make a good cooling system. I have confronted him, when I work with him (which is next to never), and he simply swears he did all the things he said he'd do. It ends up as - "He says.... I say...." then repeat over and over. It's far easier to Write $2K off as an expensive mistake and move on, Nothing is being accomplished further fighting with him over it. AND
$5K for an engine repair where it had seized the pistons. That was done, and so was the head replaced. This was a company that someone HERE recommended, and assured me something along the lines of "Drives 3 hours to get them to do all his work"
That company did the job, then he did it again under warranty, but in fairness, the car had these issues before he got it, and he has done what was required of him, it's not really his issue that the problem has continued.
$1K in various odds and sods such as larger radiator (again a good thing that won't be regretted when the problem is solved) and viscous coupling, which I'd been told by work colleague was done (and by QIM that it didn't need to be done)
The only money lost on this car has been the $2K taken by a dodgy work colleague. All other money spent has been good things to get done, and wouldn't be regretted on any vehicle. Can it be a bad thing to have replaced rings, pistons, etc etc? It may not have been the cause of the problem, but having done it is hardly money badly spent. Just spent at the wrong time on a non-critical job.

I've made some bad decisions, I got offered a $5K job to repair the cylinder damage or an $8K replacement engine, and took the $5K job. But in fairness, I was having to add the costs to my mortgage, so was being a bit of a cheapskate and went the $5K over the $8K cause I didn't want to blow my mortgage out too much more than I had to, and most importantly, had no reason to think that it wouldn't fix the problem. In hind sight I sooooo regret that choice now, a whole replacement engine would have to have been a better choice.

A maximum of $8K, with $2K written off as basically stolen, makes $6K, spent on things that are worthwhile things to do to a car. Hardly worth throwing away the car over that.

And lastly,
D: the fact that I'm a stubborn little sh1t that won't surrender to any problem lest I feel it's beaten me. Is that Stupid? Yep, it sure is, but it's a part of me that I have trouble overcoming.

I apologize that my posts trouble you. I didn't realise someone was MAKING you read them.
When my work next advertises for permanent staff, I'll switch from Casual to Permanent, and I can then go to a bank to finance a better car, and you won't see me for dust. I may even salary sacrifice myself a nice new car.
In the meantime I try on a really tight budget to find answers here. Well, I did. But I won't anymore. You'll never hear about this problem again.

Ezookiel wrote: D: I'm between a rock and a hard place. A car I can't afford to fix, and a car I can't afford to get rid of.

Can you afford to keep it? if the engine blew tomorrow, what would you do?

I'd get SFA for it if I sold it, which wouldn't be enough to get anything similar, and with my previous car buying history (I bought an 87 Magna before this) I'm likely to buy some other pos with more serious problems.

Maybe it could be time to consider a trade in, bite the bullet and buy something like a GU, or something different.. Although being a highroof, you might find it hard to trade in.

D: It owes me, and I'm scared some person will buy it from me, and find that one last thing that I needed to do to fix it, and for next to nothing it will have gone to someone getting a huge bargain,

Big deal, they maynot find it, and the donk blows up 10ft out of the door..

D: I have seriously limited funds so can't take it to a mechanic for much of the work, so have to do small jobs as I can find the money for them, combined with the fact that,

So what happened when you took it back to the dude that fixed/rebuild/screwd the engine, why isnt this his problem?

D: it is perfectly driveable for everyday use, so has given me a long long time to do those little jobs because the only thing it's doing at the moment is restricting my ability to go bush which I have little time for lately anyway,

so at this moment in your life, with money constraints, and time limitations, you would be better off with a commodore?

D: The illogical fact that I love the rotten thing, love getting in it, love driving it, love the fact that it's identifiable immediately as it's quite unique to look at. Who wants a run of the mill GQ the same as all the others out there? I want something that people can recognize, and this fits that bill perfectly.

hey theres that highroof that overheats

I've made some bad decisions, I got offered a $5K job to repair the cylinder damage or an $8K replacement engine, and took the $5K job. But in fairness, I was having to add the costs to my mortgage, so was being a bit of a cheapskate and went the $5K over the $8K cause I didn't want to blow my mortgage out too much more than I had to, and most importantly, had no reason to think that it wouldn't fix the problem.

fairy nuff. but goes to show, poor people cant afford cheap things.

In hind sight I sooooo regret that choice now, a whole replacement engine would have to have been a better choice.

Life lesson # 903420948203948230b

A maximum of $8K, with $2K written off as basically stolen, makes $6K, spent on things that are worthwhile things to do to a car. Hardly worth throwing away the car over that.

But you are no closer to the finish line.. Sometimes its better to cut your losses, and move on. What if it blows up tomorrow, your up for another $8000.... which you dont have.

D: the fact that I'm a stubborn little sh1t that won't surrender to any problem lest I feel it's beaten me. Is that Stupid? Yep, it sure is, but it's a part of me that I have trouble overcoming.

This one has beaten you dude. We all hate to admit it... And there is nothing wrong with admitting it sometimes.
What point do you stop and stop pouring $1000's more into it to get no closer??

Checkered flag has waved that much its fallen apart.

I apologize that my posts trouble you. I didn't realise someone was MAKING you read them.

for me, it aint a trouble reading them, but the fact that its such a Cookie of a problem that isnt going away, and you appear to be doing it tough $ wise, so that doesnt help either.



By the way, have you changed temp gauges yet? sender etc?


There are 203498230948 threads on ya truck, but maybe list just in point form, what you have changed to sort out the overheating problem might make it easier to suggest other things...

Ezookiel wrote:Well I'll be ....
The stupid thing has a petrol fan on it.

And since reading your thread I have discovered my Petrol has a Diesel fan on it I would swap you, but my fan has a few cracks in it so its got to be replaced.

Ezookiel, I can understand where your coming from in regards to fixing your truck and you thread IS a good and (admit it) complete source of information on GQ cooling issues, especially when its fixed.

Hey without it I would never have known i got a diesel fan..so thanks!!

yes mate make a list of what you have done to stop the overheating issues.

Things done to date:

* Cooling system flush
* New 4 core aussie desert cooler radiator.
* New water Pump
* New Thermostat (twice) now a genuine Nissan 76.5 degree one.
* Fuel flow rates checked (but not the full $1200 fuel service).
* New top hose.
* New radiator cap installed into top hose (cap on radiator too low down)
* New unkinkable reinforced bottom hose.
* Brand new head and obviously gasket (gasket twice by same company under warranty) including new pistons, rings, etc, after overheat seized two pistons
* Repositioned a number of items including removing a tiny little thermofan that was infront of driver's side, that seemed to be blocking more than it was helping, to clear more airflow through front.
* Serviced the viscous coupling - apparently succesfully as it's much much stiffer
* Positioned twin scoops over turbo and turbo overpipe, and placed heat shielding between overpipe and the hot parts such as exhaust manifold and the top of engine.


NOTES:
* Runs about 25% to 50% all day under normal conditions. But climbs pretty rapidly from there on long hill climbs, especially in low range. Seems to be linked to turbo running. Have the turbo run (9psi) for long periods such as heavy acceleration, or hill climbing, and temp rises soon afterwards or during.
Tests have shown water return line from turbo has temp at or in excess of 100Degrees. Transmission cooler been bought to fit inline on that hose, but not yet installed as is too large to fit out front, so trying to work out other options for fitting, or whether to buy the smaller one that will fit perfectly beside the headlight, with a section removed behind it to allow airthrough. Am saving to have the turbo itself given a thorough check by someone (any suggestions on someone in Canberra that won't turn out to be dodgy).
* Gauge/Sender not apparently at fault, cause when gauge says it's boiling, it is actually boiling, i.e. spewing geizers of steam out overflow bottle.
* System pumps water into overflow, but won't suck it back.
* System in the last few days, somtimes suddenly blows heaps of air or bubbles through overflow tank when engine turned off.
* Am assured by QIM who replaced the head, that block was OK and that the head and block were mated properly when replaced.

Well, that's all I can post from work, we're pretty closely monitored for excessive time on personal use of computers, which is to be kept to 10 minutes or so during breaks only.
If I think of anything else, I'll post it tonight.
My suspicion has all along been that the turbo has shat itself in someway, or is somehow connected with the whole problem, it's always only been when it runs that the thing starts to overheat. Hence once asking here if I'd regret removing it.

I would be taking it a lot easier on hot days and long hills and not let it get above 3/4 untill you sort it out. I would deffinately be going back to any mechanic that you paid money to to fix the problem.

Are your overheating issues any better now that u filled the hub up with oil? Mine was over heating and i tried a few things including venting the bonnet by raising the back and so on and it didnt help one bit. My fan used to kick in so i thought that it couldnt be the problem. Eventually i pulled the hub out and drillied 2 holes in it and filled it all the way up. Now the fan still kicks in around the same but it kicks it so hard that it howels like crazy!! above 1900rpm. I ahve also seen on another forum people taking off the bi metalic strip on teh from that controld the temp at which the fan kicks in and winding it around 1 more time. maybe give this a go.

Jimmy

Jimbo wrote:Are your overheating issues any better now that u filled the hub up with oil?

Nope, thus the reason the thread is going still...

Mine was over heating and i tried a few things including venting the bonnet by raising the back and so on and it didnt help one bit.

your not the first to notice this. but some do say it works. so something to try at least, but I wouldnt.


I'd try a VDO Temp gauge, who says the OEM one is not fucked now.

Anything up to the line at H is ok anyway, this has been posted heaps of times. over that line is mayday.

YMMV

Well if his fan is pulling more air like he says but has no effect on cooling then there is obviously a coolent flow problem!!!! Unless he cannot notice slight temp variations with the OM gauge.

Also i must say that venting the back of the bonnet did nothing while my fan was working crap but after i fixed the hub and drove around it now runs cooler with the back lifted. I only notice this on very hot days (say above 35 degrees) but i have tried it out lifted and not lifted several times on the same day to make sure i wasn't kidding myself. Mine will stay lifted in summer but go back down in march.

Jimmy

i reckon i can see the problem,

But in your big post it appeareed to me that you had a indirect shot at me and a couple at QIM.

They way you appeared to have carried on is the reason why my brother inlaw in kambah wont do cashies anymore. hes an auto sparky and diesel mechanic, so he couldda save you a few k and would still help out.


Im not getting into it, i cant really be arsed tryin to help you anymore.

Also it'd be easliy over looked about the type of fan you have on the front. Just lock it up solid and then you dont need to rev it to keep it spinning. weve never had a problem , but we dont thrash our patrols either

Im pretty sure its the first time you mentioned a water cooled turbo that is cooking the water. Gee over about 100 degrees, that'd be boiling point meaning you get over pressure and steam comes out once the rad cap limit is reached.

I also doubt that it a coincidence that it happene once the tubo is spooled up for a period of time giving the water time to get boiling nicely.


An after market water cooled huffer causing water to boil. No point having a nice radiator in there if the water is getting boiled off before it gets there as when water heats it expands.

Any ways, i wasnt gunna reply but i couldnt help myself. IMHO you appear not to understand that a modified veichle creates another set of issues, Including the misses getting angry.

Sell it and by a petrol on lpg that wont mind working hard on a hot day.


Thats me, over and out

I would also lock up the fan if u think that its not pulling enough. That way u know if that is the problem.

Not sure about the turbo water outlet.......migt need to get advice from ppl that know turbos.


Does anyone think tuning may be the problem. Surely you could get a slightly milder tune that would reduce temps (i dont know diesels much but heaps of ppl on here seem to)


Jimmy

you have a water cooled turbo????
you dont know what the EGT's are
the truck is heating on long hill climbs

and you are looking at the fan being different from a petrol and diesel???

mate, stop your fart assing around,

you need to piss of the water cooled turbo or unplug it.
then you need to get a EGT guage and get your injector pump looked at.

dont look anywhere else, herein lies your problem.

JEs

Small question why would u piss off the water coolant to the turbo? The heat is there and has to be taken care of somewhere along the line true or false??

Jimbo wrote:Small question why would u piss off the water coolant to the turbo? The heat is there and has to be taken care of somewhere along the line true or false??

I think he means get rid of the turbo all together..

I thought that originally but then it says "Unplug it"

Have to agree with Jessie.

Get a pyro installed so you know your EGT's. If its excessive, then get the fuel pump looked at and tune it to EGT's.

Disconnecting the water-cooled turbo and stroping it up hills where it previously overheated will allow you to eliminate or confirm another possible source of the problem. I've been running a water-cooled turbo without the water-cooling for almost 3yrs without any problems.

Jimbo wrote:Small question why would u piss off the water coolant to the turbo? The heat is there and has to be taken care of somewhere along the line true or false??

the turbo does not need to be coolant cooled. its disconnected in many vehicles, and not there altogether on most.
Oil cools the turbo sufficiently.

what happens is the turbo heats up the coolant and under high EGT's will heat up the coolant HEAPS. just like a tranny that is heating up engine coolant.


Jes

it may sound stupid, but is there a possibility of a crack in the turbo between the exhaust housing and water jacket, im not really sure about the internals of the turbo, but its just an idea,

jessie928 wrote:

Jimbo wrote:Small question why would u piss off the water coolant to the turbo? The heat is there and has to be taken care of somewhere along the line true or false??

the turbo does not need to be coolant cooled. its disconnected in many vehicles, and not there altogether on most.
Oil cools the turbo sufficiently.

what happens is the turbo heats up the coolant and under high EGT's will heat up the coolant HEAPS. just like a tranny that is heating up engine coolant.


Jes

Is there any risk of fire or the like if it gets too hot without it's water supply? This sounds so promising.

jessie928 wrote:

Jimbo wrote:Small question why would u piss off the water coolant to the turbo? The heat is there and has to be taken care of somewhere along the line true or false??

the turbo does not need to be coolant cooled. its disconnected in many vehicles, and not there altogether on most.
Oil cools the turbo sufficiently.

what happens is the turbo heats up the coolant and under high EGT's will heat up the coolant HEAPS. just like a tranny that is heating up engine coolant.


Jes

aren't the oil galleries much smaller on a water cooled turbo ?most of the air cooled ones have big oil galleries.

bogged wrote:

Ezookiel wrote: D: I'm between a rock and a hard place. A car I can't afford to fix, and a car I can't afford to get rid of.

Can you afford to keep it? ....

Ordinarily, yes I can afford to keep it, I'm on over $70K a year.
However, in the last year:
* my wife's transmission blew up $4K
* her aircon died $400
* My wife let her insurance lapse, and then had her first ever, in over 20 years of driving, at fault accident when she rear ended a woman - $4K
* Her own car had to be repaired - $3K
* The TV blew up permanently
* The Stereo followed not long afterwards
* The house aircon died
* The kids had to have laptops for school.
* And the real capper to it all, my wife left her job to go to two days a week to look after a Mother with Cancer.
This year has been an absolute MONGREL of a year - the Queen's anus horribilis has nothing on the year I've just had.

And no it's not the time in my life to get a Commonwhore, or any other car, as my only mechanism for winding down from stresses is to get out bush, camping with my kids etc is my main "time-out" to clear my head, and even that has been taken from me.

You wonder why I'm finally getting a bit antsy???

No pongo, I wasn't taking a swipe at you either directly or indirectly.
I did have a swipe at the person who suggested my car doesn't overheat and I make this up to have someone to chat to, and I definitely apologise to whomever it was, because in total fairness to that person, the fact is that everytime I get some money together I come in here to discuss my next move, and no doubt you're all getting quite jack of it, as I realise it has been ongoing, and must seem like a "story" to more than one of you.
And my apologies if it appears to be in multiple threads, they were an attempt to keep discussions on the relevant topic at the time. Viscous Coupling this time, bonnet scoops, removing turbo, etc. (I'm pretty sure it was in the "will I hate it if I remove the turbo" thread that I mentioned the turbo was heating the water to around 100 which has been confirmed by both QIM and Queanbeyan Diesel. But no-one seemed to worry about it back then, so I assumed it to be ok.

I'm quite happy with the list of to do things you've all put together for me over the time, which is on the wall above my computer, and being done and ticked off as money allows between other disasters. So I'm quite happy to leave this whole problem there, and and let this thread die, I'll simply let you all know when I either sell it, or solve it, and stop causing you all so much angst.

Thanks, and apologies for causing you so much stress, to all.
Trent

"life is like a box of chocolates"

it wont hurt the turbo if you dissconnect the water lines , try it and see if it makes a difference
mine came as a kit and no water connections included i was told there is no need to hook them up ( but i did anyway)
i would definatley get an EGT guage to see the temps it is running at as mine is fine until the egt reaches 500-600 then the water temp starts to climb but then i have to back off a little anyway so not to start melting pistons and how much coolant do you use as i put 5 litres of concentrate in then top up with water this helped with the water boiling when going through the turbo