Page 3 of 11
Re: i like it
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:53 pm
by gqpete
xenith wrote:mate i would b in but i have a TD42 i know u guys are scared of all the power we have
but i think u need to think of all GQ's
n/a deisels would be good against carbies, bit slower but round about same. turbo td42 would not work cause hole idea is to lower costs and keep all cars roughly same power, as to know that every car entered in the field is of similar everything so your all racing similar cars as yor own. efi patrols are easy to tweak aswell and run well stock. i spose its like going to the indoor carts, you can race your mates in the same carts and know that you won cause you outdrove the others not cause your cart was faster.
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:04 pm
by gqpete
in relation to having other vehicles, what would be similar? i haven driven 80 series 4.5 efi petrol and even with stock gearing and manual running 36's went very well, bit to well aginst gq carbies. what about carbie sixty series?
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:24 pm
by dogbreath_48
gqpete wrote:in relation to having other vehicles, what would be similar? i haven driven 80 series 4.5 efi petrol and even with stock gearing and manual running 36's went very well, bit to well aginst gq carbies. what about carbie sixty series?
could be based on age limit - when did GQ's go EFI?
IIRC 80's were the old 3F till 93 (though i think it was injected, correct?)
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:31 pm
by Pauwolf
I think you will fing that Dave Metcalf aready has a similar introductory class in his extreme Winch series, same tracks, less modified vehicles than the comp spec trucks
Paul
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:27 pm
by GQ Bear
Well Darren i read your update and although i'm pleased you included n/a TD42's i'm dissapointed that you won't allow TB42e's.
Limiting vehicle range like this will limit interest in the sport from major sponsers such as ARB, and more importantly Nissan. As the used vehicle market dry's up the costs will skyrocket and interest from newcomers will plummet.
It'll become a fly-by-night event that never was what it could have been.
My suggestion;
GQ Patrol std(wagon, ute or shorty)
std driveline(std diff ratios)
lockers allowed(any variant)
35" tyres max(any type)
std engine tb42, tb42e, td42, rb30(can be worked, but no bolt-ons)
extractors allowed
snorkels allowed
Any fuel type(high octane petrol, lpg, bio diesel, diesel/lpg mix)
4-point cage + harnesses + helmets + kill switch min. safety req.
std length arms, etc.(strengthening allowed)
Any ride height, any spring/bodylift/guard cut combo, any shockers(as long as original spring towers and shock mounts positioned and used)
OE steel panels, OE interiors, OE glass
any barwork
any std winch
Unless you've got ARB and Warn coming onboard in a BIG way financially aiding both events and competitors, then you're mad to limit accessories by brand names.
just my thoughts, take 'em or leave 'em.
Bear
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:19 pm
by TEAMRPM
GQ Bear wrote:Well Darren i read your update and although i'm pleased you included n/a TD42's i'm dissapointed that you won't allow TB42e's.
Limiting vehicle range like this will limit interest in the sport from major sponsers such as ARB, and more importantly Nissan. As the used vehicle market dry's up the costs will skyrocket and interest from newcomers will plummet.
It'll become a fly-by-night event that never was what it could have been.
My suggestion;
GQ Patrol std(wagon, ute or shorty)
std driveline(std diff ratios)
lockers allowed(any variant)
35" tyres max(any type)
std engine tb42, tb42e, td42, rb30(can be worked, but no bolt-ons)
extractors allowed
snorkels allowed
Any fuel type(high octane petrol, lpg, bio diesel, diesel/lpg mix)
4-point cage + harnesses + helmets + kill switch min. safety req.
std length arms, etc.(strengthening allowed)
Any ride height, any spring/bodylift/guard cut combo, any shockers(as long as original spring towers and shock mounts positioned and used)
OE steel panels, OE interiors, OE glass
any barwork
any std winch
Unless you've got ARB and Warn coming onboard in a BIG way financially aiding both events and competitors, then you're mad to limit accessories by brand names.
just my thoughts, take 'em or leave 'em.
Bear
sounds to me that this class is trying to exclude pretty much what you are suggesting..
the point of this class is to race un modified vehicles
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:23 pm
by GQ Bear
TEAMRPM wrote:GQ Bear wrote:Well Darren i read your update and although i'm pleased you included n/a TD42's i'm dissapointed that you won't allow TB42e's.
Limiting vehicle range like this will limit interest in the sport from major sponsers such as ARB, and more importantly Nissan. As the used vehicle market dry's up the costs will skyrocket and interest from newcomers will plummet.
It'll become a fly-by-night event that never was what it could have been.
My suggestion;
GQ Patrol std(wagon, ute or shorty)
std driveline(std diff ratios)
lockers allowed(any variant)
35" tyres max(any type)
std engine tb42, tb42e, td42, rb30(can be worked, but no bolt-ons)
extractors allowed
snorkels allowed
Any fuel type(high octane petrol, lpg, bio diesel, diesel/lpg mix)
4-point cage + harnesses + helmets + kill switch min. safety req.
std length arms, etc.(strengthening allowed)
Any ride height, any spring/bodylift/guard cut combo, any shockers(as long as original spring towers and shock mounts positioned and used)
OE steel panels, OE interiors, OE glass
any barwork
any std winch
Unless you've got ARB and Warn coming onboard in a BIG way financially aiding both events and competitors, then you're mad to limit accessories by brand names.
just my thoughts, take 'em or leave 'em.
Bear
sounds to me that this class is trying to exclude pretty much what you are suggesting..
the point of this class is to race un modified vehicles
I wouldn't call this un-modified;
KRIMNL wrote:I have been thinking about bringing a new class into our sport. to encourage closer racing and want to know your thoughts.
GQ RACING
GQ shorty / wagon or ute (must be what compliance plate states ie no cars cut to utes)
4.2 carby motors or td42 NO turbos at all , period, end of discussion!!!!
exhaust open ie extractors ect
no efi or forced induction
no NOS or gas on diesel
auto or manual allowed
std type winch bar, supplied by ARB ect
std warn winch , 12 volt with 6hp motor
2" suspension lift . 1 shocker per corner in original mounts
2 " body lift
controlled 35" tyre , (ie pro comp , simex . whoever gives the best deal)
4.6 diff gears with twin arb lockers\
guards cut to fit bigger tyres, the rest of body to remain standard
std steel panels only
trays are to full trays.( no buggy backs)
interior to remain std except for fitting of 6 point cage and aftermarket seats allowed
door trims ect must remain in the cars.
GQ diffs to remain
steering box is open.
all suspension arms are to be factory lengths, laminating is allowed must retain original type bushes
brakes to remain std.
the idea here is to allow for most the weekend worriers that have this set up now to come racing .and be competitive.
the cars will look stock and having winches,tyres, and bars as controlled we will get great prices and push for better sponsorship.
I still think some ppl think KRMNL's trying to create "shitbox racing", but he's not. Just a more restricted class to even the competition.
My main beef is that
all std GQ's (1988-1995?) should be eligible to enter.
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:33 pm
by krimnl
GQ Bear wrote:Well Darren i read your update and although i'm pleased you included n/a TD42's i'm dissapointed that you won't allow TB42e's.
Limiting vehicle range like this will limit interest in the sport from major sponsers such as ARB, and more importantly Nissan. As the used vehicle market dry's up the costs will skyrocket and interest from newcomers will plummet.
It'll become a fly-by-night event that never was what it could have been.
My suggestion;
GQ Patrol std(wagon, ute or shorty)
std driveline(std diff ratios)
lockers allowed(any variant)
35" tyres max(any type)
std engine tb42, tb42e, td42, rb30(can be worked, but no bolt-ons)
extractors allowed
snorkels allowed
Any fuel type(high octane petrol, lpg, bio diesel, diesel/lpg mix)
4-point cage + harnesses + helmets + kill switch min. safety req.
std length arms, etc.(strengthening allowed)
Any ride height, any spring/bodylift/guard cut combo, any shockers(as long as original spring towers and shock mounts positioned and used)
OE steel panels, OE interiors, OE glass
any barwork
any std winch
Unless you've got ARB and Warn coming onboard in a BIG way financially aiding both events and competitors, then you're mad to limit accessories by brand names.
just my thoughts, take 'em or leave 'em.
Bear
Hey Bear keep the great feedback coming.
still wont allow EFI. period . full stop!!!! i know what can be achieved with it and a little bit of work
This would be the start of chq book racing again, a few of us can afford it. like gqpete
but if you want to race this car, go and enter trophy class , that already exists . i have spoken to a few top competitors as well as potential sponsors and competition organisers and they are all for it. remember this wont be new events, we are pushing for a new class in existing events.
as soon as you have mods that are open , that means the chq book is always open. by limiting this and running controlled equiptment we can get some great prices on parts and some great class sponsors, i know this . i have spoken to suppliers about out! With the correct management . (Pete and Myself cant do it all) this could be a great class to race in.
V8 supercars have controlled tyres & fuel ect for a reason. sponsors.
they are limited in mods to keep them all equal. off road racing has a production class. lots of circuit racing has controlled classes . this makes for tight competitive racing.
keep the feedback coming. more comments just means more to print out so this can be discussed properly once all the info is compiled
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:48 pm
by GQ Bear
Anyone got a carby GQ shorty for sale?
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:50 pm
by krimnl
hey 1 thing i did think about , NOS!!! or gas on a diesel . would be a good boost for hill climbs . but not to much or BANG!!!
would just add something a little different aswell.
this is something that is done in the A1GP racing with their power boost. and it seems to work well
[/quote]
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:57 pm
by fatmanjt
I think this a top idea. I personally think events like outback were ruined ever since it turned into a horsepower race instead of an actual outback challenge as such, where more should be focused at driver skill, team work etc. Bring it on and ill be there.
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:30 pm
by bogged
krimnl wrote:as for bending the rules, i have the rule in mind to stop that happening but i will leave that under my belt for now.
bucket racing on bikes had a good rule.. it went something like every bike in the event, could be bought for $500... every competitor knew this...
this kept people from spending huge $$ at the start.. then they canned the $500 rules, and the class blew out to mass $$ spent on shit heaps..
good idea darren, hope it works.
I think someone needs to aim at the family bloke who would like to compete, but not destroy his rig.. theres 1000's of GQ's out there...
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:45 am
by blkmav
GQ Bear wrote:Anyone got a carby GQ shorty for sale?
No
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:05 am
by Ruffy
bogged wrote:bucket racing on bikes had a good rule.. it went something like every bike in the event, could be bought for $500... every competitor knew this...
There are several forms of motor sport that have used this method before. I thought of mentioning it earlier but i could think of a fair price. Also considering that these cars may very well be DD's for some people i don't now how well it will sit.
I could very easily spend 8 grand on building a bog stock td42 with out breaking or bending any rules yet 8 grand isn't a fair price
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:12 am
by Guy
Didnt the Class 7 rules make suspension choice open, but must use all factory mounts, the mounts can be beefed up but must remain in the factory location.
I think that this is a great idea, but you need a tiny bit of "wiggle room" in the rulkes to allow for innovation.
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:32 am
by wrksux
Great idea, but with 36" tyres trailing arms 16mm longer stop drivelie vibes and are tougher, that would be the only sugested mod. also will this have classes within the class.
like say open diff or sub 34" actual tyre diameter for the blokes on 33"s
im a uni student and would love this cause its cheap but having say penalties or bonus depending on the points system for bloke who are unlocked, only front and the like could get a lot of interest as people learn and add to the rig.
Cheers
Tim
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:44 am
by chimpboy
love_mud wrote:Didnt the Class 7 rules make suspension choice open, but must use all factory mounts, the mounts can be beefed up but must remain in the factory location.
I think that this is a great idea, but you need a tiny bit of "wiggle room" in the rulkes to allow for innovation.
I didn't think engineering innovation was really the aim here though, more just bringing it back to being about driving skill.
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:04 pm
by weeman
wrksux wrote:Great idea, but with 36" tyres trailing arms 16mm longer stop drivelie vibes and are tougher, that would be the only sugested mod. also will this have classes within the class.
like say open diff or sub 34" actual tyre diameter for the blokes on 33"s
im a uni student and would love this cause its cheap but having say penalties or bonus depending on the points system for bloke who are unlocked, only front and the like could get a lot of interest as people learn and add to the rig.
Cheers
Tim
36" Tyres arent allowed, hence you should not need the trailing arms lengthened for a shorty.
about the diffs being unlocked or not am not sure on this view but I understand where your coming from in terms of cost savings and getting people to know there vehicles.
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:04 pm
by Guy
chimpboy wrote:love_mud wrote:Didnt the Class 7 rules make suspension choice open, but must use all factory mounts, the mounts can be beefed up but must remain in the factory location.
I think that this is a great idea, but you need a tiny bit of "wiggle room" in the rules to allow for innovation.
I didn't think engineering innovation was really the aim here though, more just bringing it back to being about driving skill.
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:05 pm
by AJ
First thing is to decide whether its LWB or SWB. Forget the utes.
You cant mix them together if you want a control class.
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:21 pm
by nastytroll
being ute or full body makes no difference if some one wants to win, panel damage is a very distant 2nd
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:12 pm
by Ruffy
yeah i reckon any standard body configuration, as long as it's full tray.
Classes within the class is going over the top i reckon and no room for innovation is required. That would defeat the point.
I agree with Glenn, diff locks of any brand.
Only front mount winches?
Restricting tyres to 34's would help overcome power issues anyway. Power is useless if you can't get it to the ground.
Biggest issue is gunna be cages for most people anyway.
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:20 pm
by AJ
nastytroll wrote:being ute or full body makes no difference if some one wants to win, panel damage is a very distant 2nd
But 3 different wheelbase lengths doesnt make it a control category. Pick one and run only with that. I'd suggest LWB wagon to keep costs down and skills at the forefront.
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:23 pm
by nastytroll
have to agree a cage will put most people out if its a dd, but y compete in a dd anyway if it has to get you to work.
A cage is/can be expensive and not always easily complied for road use. Also think a 35" tyre limit would be better as most gq will turn a 35 n gives a better choise of tyres unless a control tyre is to be used, but I personally think a control tyre is not a good idea unless they will be a major sponsor n provide tyres a a very good price. I would prefer to choose my own tyre as different tyres suit different drivers
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:58 pm
by Wild West
I think its a great idea. Even though i wont qualify with the current modification limits i think it will be good for getting people into the sport. From there they will have a lot of fun and decide if they want to stay at that level or go up classes with more mods allowed.
The cage will definately be the hardest thing for most people if it is their daily driver but i do believe it is a necessary recquirement.
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:18 pm
by TEAMRPM
Wild West wrote:I think its a great idea. Even though i wont qualify with the current modification limits i think it will be good for getting people into the sport. From there they will have a lot of fun and decide if they want to stay at that level or go up classes with more mods allowed.
The cage will definately be the hardest thing for most people if it is their daily driver but i do believe it is a necessary recquirement.
I have a daily driver! drive it to work and go bush most weekends. putting a cage in your vehicle should be nearly compulsory from the factory i reckon. less deaths would occur..however, there are some bloody good cage builders out there. i saw a customer of mines cage CCDA approved etc. it almost looked like it was apart of the factory with a bolt off section in the back for when the kids where in there. so it was a 4 point all the time and an optional 6 point. it was apart of the head lining. i do admit the only thing unusual compared to your daily driver is having a 2" tube through your dash. im pretty sure he said it was $2200 with the paper work but thats a bloody good price i thought. safety is priceless!
so my thoughts are..
putting a cage in my vehicle indefinatley isnt a problem for me if its a professional job. i have seen a few cages i would use for scrap steel..
there is a % of operators out there who own patrols, they allready have lockers, 35"s and winches etc etc etc and a weekend warriors. more likely they have 4-6" lift because they have idolised the trophy class vehicles. i think this class need to be considered for sure. when spectators see this class in action, seeing what pretty much stock machines can achieve apart from a gaurd chop , 35" lockers and a winch. most of them will go home that night and look at the patrol sitting in the driveway and go "yer i could do that".. and why not too!
this then opens up another door in the sport. for those that can afford 2 trucks can go extreme, for those that can afford it still but choose not too because it can be addictive and expensive but still want the atmosphere and experiences, they have an option in the daily driver. (with somemods of course)
that is all!
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:58 pm
by chpd 80
So Darren, have you definately decided against Toyota's V Nissan.?
Theres plenty of toyota's around that I'm sure would love to have a chance to compete and help this catagory take off!
Would be a shame to see such a good concept be limited to one brand.
Their has always been great rivalry between Toyota/Nissan, bit like V8 supercars. (Imagine watching just Fords race around a track)
.
You've got to be able to talk a bit of trash about your mates rig. "If that bloody Toyota drove it I can" kinda stuff (all in good fun of course)
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:04 pm
by Wild West
You would either have to allow efi and turbo diesel patrols or use carby cruisers
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:12 pm
by chpd 80
I know were your coming from with carbies, but they just suck with anything to do with 4wding!!
If anyone has any ideas on how efi and turbo diesels could be kept fair and restricted, and then able to race would be great, cause I;m sure Darren is not anti efi and Turbo, He just wants to keep it fair.
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:23 pm
by gqpete
Wild West wrote:You would either have to allow efi and turbo diesel patrols or use carby cruisers
thats right, have to draw the line somewhere. if you allow turbo deisel cruisers and efi cruisers then allow same in patrol back to chequebook racing again. agree that other cars to be able to compette, but if the buck stops at carbie 4.2 gq's, then the others have to be identical or less powerfull. not go past the line. the whole idea is to keep cost down and level playing feild is important.