Outer Limits 4x4 Board

mr green wrote:steve i near wet myself when i read you have a 660 in a sierra after the almighty carryings on you had at the mention of a gti conversion for all the same reasons
jason

Have you driven a 660? The power delivery isn't like a GTI at all - once the motor is onto boost power and torque is very very flat. Also, no requirement to cut the firewall or buy/make dizzy adapters, the engine goes in on stock mounts, with a stock fan, stock shroud, stock radiator etcetc. some of these reasons are what still make me say GTIs are not a good swap into a sierra.

660's are not a conversion - they were factory fitment. I'd never advocate one in a 1.3, but as swap into a 1.0 they are very cool and far easier than anything else. Except for intercooler piping, mine just looks like was always supposed to be there.

Anyway a GTI is too obvious for someone as perverse as me

Steve.

i was going to say how about a kubta diesel but just googled them only 35 hp at 4000rpm no go but who knows some one might like to try one hay for the record i still not any wiser on what to use v6 zook 2ltr zook 660zook 4age won't be a hog motor so many motor argggg not to mention turbo 1.3 or supercharged 1.3 or just build a n/a screemer out of the std moter but then you have of getting cams porting bigger valves i now i've spelt some things wrong but tough for a post that was a wast of space it got a lot of peaple thinking . BONER p/s this will probley be my last post here so thank to all that supported me on this forum hay grimbo you should join the goverment as a polie you would be a good one the p/hanson party is looking for members

steve a sr20 box will fit into a 13ltr tunneel no fab work just body lift then if wanted you can cut about 150mm from the top of your tunnel making it nearly a flat floor accross from driver to passenger if i could post a pic i would
and what does IMHO mean

boner59 wrote: v6 zook

Boner, the V6 zook motor is garbage from a conversion point of view. They suffer from timing chain tensioner problems, and whilst they are smooth and rev OK, they would be a big hassle to fit into a sierra. For the bulk and hassle of fitting the V6, they don't really do the numbers. Personally, I would just go the well trodden G16B EFI path. They are an easy swap, go well, they're reliable and there is lots of support for the conversion. Trying to go it alone with a conversion requires a lot of expertise because there is no one to ask if you have trouble.

I have posted before that diesels are porr candidates for swapping into a sierra. I stand by that.

boner59 wrote: BONER p/s this will probley be my last post here so thank to all that supported me on this forum hay grimbo you should join the goverment as a polie you would be a good one the p/hanson party is looking for members

Well done Grimbo I can't understand that if you don't have anything to add why you can't just ignore the post. This thread actually ended up having some useful tech in it but if it had been left to you it would have been shut down.

Posting "search newbie" is not a substitute for having nothing of use to add to a thread. If you think the question is vauge ask for clarification, but hat might take some technical skill.... it's much easier just to intimidate someone by telling them to search. What's your ultimate goal? No new threads? No newbies on outers? If people are happy to reply, what's it to you? Just ignore it. like I said, threads need refreshing with new information and new experience, and nobody likes an ancient dig either.

Steve.

Deleted doublepost

Gwagensteve wrote:

boner59 wrote: v6 zook

Boner, the V6 zook motor is garbage from a conversion point of view. They suffer from timing chain tensioner problems, and whilst they are smooth and rev OK, they would be a big hassle to fit into a sierra. For the bulk and hassle of fitting the V6, they don't really do the numbers. Personally, I would just go the well trodden G16B EFI path. They are an easy swap, go well, they're reliable and there is lots of support for the conversion. Trying to go it alone with a conversion requires a lot of expertise because there is no one to ask if you have trouble.

I have posted before that diesels are porr candidates for swapping into a sierra. I stand by that.

boner59 wrote: BONER p/s this will probley be my last post here so thank to all that supported me on this forum hay grimbo you should join the goverment as a polie you would be a good one the p/hanson party is looking for members

Well done Grimbo I can't understand that if you don't have anything to add why you can't just ignore the post. This thread actually ended up having some useful tech in it but if it had been left to you it would have been shut down.

Posting "search newbie" is not a substitute for having nothing of use to add to a thread. If you think the question is vauge ask for clarification, but hat might take some technical skill.... it's much easier just to intimidate someone by telling them to search. What's your ultimate goal? No new threads? No newbies on outers? If people are happy to reply, what's it to you? Just ignore it. like I said, threads need refreshing with new information and new experience, and nobody likes an ancient dig either.

Steve.

Steve you great big bloody hypocrite you are also guilty of doing the search thing so don't even try the holier than thou tack now. So don't even try and turn it into something it isn't. Ultimate goal is for users to take the time to help themselves to the wealth of info already on here, people take the easy route and just ask a question without taking the time to research. then ultimately people need to be detailed to expect details in return.

So take your attempts to analyse why I asked something and your attempts to try and have ago at my technical skills and knowledge and just go write some super long techno babble answer to show off your skills to everyone else who seems impressed with it

My initial post asked if he uses the search feature and followed up with why I asked that as he is posting lots of questions about lots of topics that get covered alot on this forum without providing alot of info in his post. As you know the more info people provide at the start allows for better and more accurate answers.

Ok, now that I have my popcorn and I'm ready please continue....

Gwagensteve wrote:A harley with EFI and a wide powerband? Hmmm, I'd like to see that!

Steve.

Obviously you don't ride one. But I totally agree with you a motorbike engine in a zuk is useless. Just leave it to those few yanks with more money than brains.

Eff wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote:A harley with EFI and a wide powerband? Hmmm, I'd like to see that!

Steve.

Obviously you don't ride one. But I totally agree with you a motorbike engine in a zuk is useless. Just leave it to those few yanks with more money than brains.

no he doesn't but he has an opinion on it

Eff wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote:A harley with EFI and a wide powerband? Hmmm, I'd like to see that!

Steve.

Obviously you don't ride one. But I totally agree with you a motorbike engine in a zuk is useless. Just leave it to those few yanks with more money than brains.

I am aware the V-Rod is both injected and has a wider powerband than a conventional harley motor, but would stand by what I say for an old school harley motor, which is really what I think people here were talking about. I think that the gearing you woudl have to run in a sierra to get an older Harley V twin to work would be quite tall and therefore the overall performance wouldn't be as good as you would think.

Offroader-rama - IMHO = In my humble opinion.... or maybe I should say SEARCH NEWBIE ...

Steve.

Gwagensteve wrote:

Eff wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote:A harley with EFI and a wide powerband? Hmmm, I'd like to see that!

Steve.

Obviously you don't ride one. But I totally agree with you a motorbike engine in a zuk is useless. Just leave it to those few yanks with more money than brains.

I am aware the V-Rod is both injected and has a wider powerband than a conventional harley motor, but would stand by what I say for an old school harley motor, which is really what I think people here were talking about. I think that the gearing you woudl have to run in a sierra to get an older Harley V twin to work would be quite tall and therefore the overall performance wouldn't be as good as you would think.

Offroader-rama - IMHO = In my humble opinion.... or maybe I should say SEARCH NEWBIE ...

Steve.

Fuel injection has actually been an option for some conventional hd models since 1996 and it was fitted on a engine which ran from 1984 to 1999 which produces more torque than a v-rod even with the standard carbie. I think the harley engine would have enough power to pull it. But the whole bottom end is not suited. It just simply not designed to pull such weights like a zuk all the time. This too applies to any motorcycle engine IMHO.

Eff

IMHO stop being a bunch of girls trying to out do each others penise extetions with tech babble and just humour each other weather you agree or not
IMHO of course

back to topic i have see someone use a 2.4 turbo deisel 5sp transfer etc from hilux in a sierra i like the gearbox / transfer side of it not keen on turbo deisel thoe what i would like to see is (a i think its called a 3rz) the 2.7 ltr efi hilux, hiace, prado etc.. motor i have driven a two wheel drive and was very impressed it was hire car while driving a mate and me got talking pulled over near super cheap brought a tape measure and i recon it would fit nicely with a body lift and you could virturly loose the tunnel by mounting it as low as possible

yes it would be a big job for a 'newbie'

we priced the 2.7ltr motor g/box transfer at a few importers around $2000 with harness computer etc..

ps.. overall lenth was less than my ca18 5sp and transfer by about 200mm from memory i hope to have one done by the end of the year

any one see this done

No, haven't seen it done but I think the 2.7 hilux motor would be a killer conversion into a sierra. Very torquey and adequate power for any sierra. I am surprised how strong they pull even in a heavy D/cab hilux. the rack up huge Kms without problems too.

I think that once you step away from the relative ease of the G16B, the 2.7 hilux (3RZFE) has a lot going for it.

Because of my love of autos I would like to see an auto behind one to smooth it out a bit and as they are basically AW-4 (vitara) architecture, this should be possible.


Steve.

i thought about this for a very short amount of time. going on the theory that if your going to put a cast iron block in a sierra you might as well put the biggest one in you can get your hands on.they don't even seem to be overpriced but if you have a look at one they are a big bugger. when you think of swapping sumps to get a g16 in, and i have heard the larger m series engines are getting a squeeze between the radiator i decided the 2.7 is a great conversion but for an earlier hilux.
jason

They don't look much bigger than a J20 to me (granted though, they won't fit with an engine fan either though) and people can fit them. You are right though, if your going to swap a heavy bulky non suzuki motor anyway you might as well go for the biggest one you can fit.

They are tall though - I agree that they would need a BL.

Whether there is really a point though - dunno - I think it might end up with way more torque than traction.

Steve

it will be mated with locked hilux diffs and 31's - 33's as its my mates sierra we are doing it to, it will need to look the part "legal" but work well off road and as he only has a auto liecence it to will be auto and the hilux we hired was auto and i was impressed as hell with a full load on the back it still fried the tyres of the lights i didn't see that coming.it is a torque monsta for a 4 cylinder.

I'm also lead to believe that if you use the bell housing only, you can mate it to a celica 5sp, (I'm not a toyota fan so i dont what matches what exactly ask about nissan i'll tell you) but anyway it means you could use the sierra transfer

some great sounding setups ,

Don,t want to sound like a downer but , it might pay to pay perticular attention next time you drive your zook on a steep and rutted track ,
Pay attention to the way the vehicle moves and the spots where you get the spincher effect now your headed down hill and need to cross a rut
rear end kicks a tire high , imagine having an extra 100 plus kilos infront of the windscreen This is where the balance is important
and why the 1.6 and lighter motors (alloy like the original)
are the best options for a standard wheelbase , if you increase the weight
over the standard wheelbase it really buggers the balance .

Imo when your doing a conversion your only going to get real advantages on road or for fast off road type events, like winch challenges.
People make the mistake of being disapionted with performance before they gear there cars right for the job and increased tire size .

If you go up in weight you need to go up in wheelbase and track ,
Its a big bunch of invisable numbers that need to be addressed to keep or improve performance off road .
So to save the grief think seriously about where you want improvements .

i have a question for everyone. Is there an alloy diesel 4cly engine ??? i cant think of one. if there is this would be a great conversion. light weight, heaps of torque and it would be ok with stock gears on 31 tyres.

Does this beast exist??????

Good point Dozoor, I tend to believe that more than 100hp or so (and any increase in weight over the front axle) reduces the drivability of a stock SWB sierra in general, even though it might improve in one area.

Built4thrashing, yes there are alloy blocked diesels, but they are currently only being used in new road car applications. sourcing, wiring and settung up these would be $$$$.

Steve.

dam... the popcorns getting cold and its was looking so promising.

dozoor
i agree of course, and the engines I talk about are not for standed drive trains, they 'll require skill and experence to make work, with thought to stengthening weak points and this comes with trial and error, thats what makes this site great i think, because if you are planning something out side the box, then someones trail and error will help you from falling down the same path.

and a fault i have is i went from having 2 lj80s with a 4k 5sp in one and a15 4sp in the other, both had 1ltr diffs, discs, 2inch body, extended shackles,2 inch springs etc.. then next a lwb sierra 1ltr which lasted a short time it was replaced with the ca18det and hilux diffs, i have had another lwb in this time, a 1.3ltr big lift, big wheels etc.. and a swb with a red 202, extended wheel base just shy of a lwb, with coils all round bundera diffs etc... so in short i have not owned a swb with a big donk fairly standed drive line, so i cant comment, would have to assume it would suck exept in a straight line.

and IMHO i think all would agree that a standed 1ltr 4sp nt with lockers and good flex and smart tyre choice say 30's, would eat a 2.7ltr 5sp with hilux diffs but no lockers 31's and minimal flex on the rough tracks.

a story to tell, about 8-9 years ago I was out flogging my lj80 one day offroad, when i met up with a guy with a lj50, i had 31's, he had 35's, i had a 4k 5sp 1ltr open diffs, he had 500cc 2 stroke lj 50 locked diffs but spoa. any how i thought he wouldn't be able to turn those bigs wheels with tiny, little, ring ding ding ding, motor to realy go offroad , looks cool but silly and wont work. so off we went, well he kicked my arse every where exept in speed on the flat, i couldn't even get close to him. he showed me the importance of traction as i was just wheel spinning and bouncing around, he just crawled over everything with so much flex and no wheel spin i couldn't beleive posible at the time.

long story short if your going to play with the engine bay for better off road, play under neath first, like lockers, extend your wheel base for bigger tyres also for aproach / decend angles, spring / shocks for flex, not forgeting gearing etc... . other wise its just a penise extention that wont work

Here's one no-one has mentioned.
I've never seen a Sierra done but LJ50's & LJ80's used to get 40-50hp Johnson/Evinrude outboard motors fitted in Northern Territory. Unfortunatly I don't have any pics or further info.
Probably wouldn't pass emissions regs any more. Would have some sting tho'.

double post sorry as below

on that note i have heard of people using the head and exhaust (expansion chamber) of a suzuki tripple 2 stroke road bike on the 500 and 800cc 2 strockers spose to get huge revs 8000rpm+ dont know power figure but would be better maybe just in higher revs

G'day,

Sort gearing and traction, then add the power.

However in such a light vehicle, ie lj50, lj80, sierras. Power is not the be all, end all.

I would much prefer to have a small fuel injected 4cyl such as the G16B or the G13BB.

Cheers,
Sean

offroader-rama wrote:on that note i have heard of people using the head and exhaust (expansion chamber) of a suzuki tripple 2 stroke road bike on the 500 and 800cc 2 strockers spose to get huge revs 8000rpm+ dont know power figure but would be better maybe just in higher revs

I had/might have again soon, an L60 Suzuki Carry. 1976. 446cc 2 cyl. 2 stroke. When I got it, the original f#@%ing HUGE muffler was rusted out so I fitted a pair of power pipes off a Yamaha RD350. Sounded heaps better and would hold a burnout in 3rd gear !

want 33's what sort of revs was it doing did it a have techo and do those 2 stoker engines run a power valve i also know where there is a chassis and running gear for one of those with a old school 1920's look wooden body with out doors etc... done for movie world was registed with wooden body it has the compliance plate for it. unfortunitly the body is rotten and the chassis is rusty and the engine hasn't being started for long time love to see it go again.

offroader-rama wrote:want 33's what sort of revs was it doing did it a have techo and do those 2 stoker engines run a power valve i also know where there is a chassis and running gear for one of those with a old school 1920's look wooden body with out doors etc... done for movie world was registed with wooden body it has the compliance plate for it. unfortunitly the body is rotten and the chassis is rusty and the engine hasn't being started for long time love to see it go again.

I wouldn't have a clue what revs it was doing , NO tacho. But seemed to rev quicker and definately had more power with bike pipes.
If 'power valve' means accellerator pump in carby, yes.
Suzuki Carry body and chassis are not seperable. The one you speak of was probably a Daihatsu or Honda.
PS: I need a generator/starter motor if anyone knows of parts.

i thought the dihastsu was a rebadge suzuki !!

and a power valve is a cam type valve in the exhaust port that works with centrifical force of the crank to open ie more revs more flow most 2 stroke bikes over 125cc have them to provide back pressure at lower revs for torque and makes power band come on softer thats why older 2 strokes seem more radical when hitting band due to either lack off or burnt out power valves.