Outer Limits 4x4 Board

arb383 wrote:daniels,
i am not refering to you in my post,i am talking about customers in general.
i know nothing about your ability or situation so my post was not aimed directly at you.
you are correct in saying arb are not in the same boat as the rest of the 4x4 industry.
fact is they are number one,and people just love to have a shot at the big guy.
4wd stuff,
i'm glad you have such a successful business and work ethic.i will be interested to see how your doing in 20 years.
imagine how much you'll know by then!

ome dakar springs are not made in australia.

any other questions?

So you see no problem with arbitrailly dismissing claims of fault or faulty product simply because you did not fit them.
I have no problem admitting if I abuse it and break it I fix it, but if I break it doing what it was designed to do .. then the company who sold me a product based on their reputation of building the number one product should bear some responsability. At least to take a look at what the customer (with a good attitude) is saying.

The attitude I am seeing here is the same attitude that annoys people, you have basically said that anyone that has had an issue is a liar. The same attitude I met with the last time I dealt with the company you are representing.

I walked into a store about 12 months ago. Someone went over to the shocks and asked about them. The sales person lied in the first minute I was there. He said that OME shocks were the best. True story. I wasn't laughing at the time. I felt sorry for the guy believing the drivel and had to walk out.

I've been reading this post, and at the same time holding back on posting, lol can't hold back any more

Had a similar problem with Mentioned company, (Sorted now)
I bought new 2" Dakar springs all round for my 92 mdl lux, Fitted the rear first and were pretty happy with them, Then i fitted the front, The springs to my dismay had no lift in them at all (were actually lower than my saged original ones), formed a W shap and sagged before i even drove out the drive way,

Was a lot worse than what the pic shows
I drove the car to a few spring places to confirm my thoughts on the springs, then straight to ***, I was lucky as i new there mechanic there very well, i asked for him when i entered the store, nd asked him to come and have a look to see what he thinks, He confirmed my thoughts to they were either the wrong springs or faulty, he grabs his boss, witch comes out to tell both of us that the springs are fine and thats how there supposed to be lol

Pretty much told him he can have them back, *** response was NO Warranty cos they were not fitted by them, After taking them back out again and returning them back to ***, he said he would send them off to be tested, the next day he told me they were fine, and there would be no refund.
So i went straight to the Authoritys he shit him self,called me straight away wanting to know why i would invole them in the matter, told him cos i wanted a refund on the faulty goods under the warranty, HE Gave me my money back
*** 0 Me 1
Never will buy from that particular Store again.

This thread is enough for me to never buy a product from the company again. I would say that arb383 would have been better off not saying anything. Personally I find your attitude appalling and toting the we are the best flag is a bit of a crock imo. Although I would have to say that blaming the service received on customers attitude is a joke. Maybe I should screw over some of my clients and use that excuse

arb383, your attitude to this whole thread represents the problem the general customers are having with your industry leading products, you just can not admitt that there may be a problem. Oh...... and how do you fit a spring incorrectly, your joking .........Yeah.

taps wrote:arb383, your attitude to this whole thread represents the problem the general customers are having with your industry leading products, you just can not admitt that there may be a problem. Oh...... and how do you fit a spring incorrectly, your joking .........Yeah.

I have had a customer fit them back to front.

I had this spring fitted by them.
The front part of the spring is up against the pin plate bolts



I am surprised as to why the fitter didnt refuse to fit the spring right away.
You can see that the spring, if centered properly at the front, would be even further out of alignment at the rear, and fouling the shackles.



This pin has a damaged nipple, and it wouldnt accept grease well.
The 2 bolts that hold the pin plate are both stripped, and could be undone by hand. The plate is bent by hammer blows, as too is the mount itself and the other side is just as bad.



When I first went and spoke to them, they had the gaul to tell me it wasnt under warranty as they didnt fit them originally, yet I didnt do this damage when I fitted the first set. It came back to me like this after they fitted the spring.

I took care, and pride in my work, I feel that these pictures show someone who didnt take my approach to their work.


Trains

booflux and taps are on the money. its not the products that are the problem, its the attitude of those within the company and the fact that they cant accept that maybe, just maybe, they are not THE best out there...

ill admit that while the range of products is bigger than most, and the quality is usualy pretty good, the fact is that if when on the odd occasion it is upto standard, if the company cant accept that and give abit of good customer service and look after the person who had the problem, then the company isnt worth pissing on.

at the end of the day, its the customer thats keeping these guys in business...

and theres a reason ill go to the little guy for pretty much everything i need... i know ill get good service from them, because they know that my business is what keeps them afloat...


arb383, learn something from this thread...

first off i would like to say that i do not own a 4x4 store and i am not employed by arb.
i do however have more than a decade of experience fitting 4x4 accessories.
and i have seen a lot of things in that time and learnt a lot.
in that time i have seen a lot of product failures,some warranty some not.
sure,arb have faults in manufacturing,but the problem is not as widespread as you guys are making out when you consider the volume of product they produce.

i can't really comment on the particular problems that people have posted here because i don't know there situation,an internet forum isn't the place to sort that out.

i have no financial gain or loss in anybody that chooses to use or boycott arb.
you should buy from who you think will supply what you need.

this forum seems to have a lot of problems with arb,so i won't bother to recomend or mention them anymore.

arb383 wrote:arb have faults in manufacturing,but the problem is not as widespread as you guys are making out when you consider the volume of product they produce.

no-one claimed it was widespread mate... and if anything, the fact that it isnt widespread is even more reason to honor a claim. if it was happening left right and centre then its understandable that they dont want to honor a claim as they are obviously already loosing cash, but the fact that it only happens sometimes means they can certainly afford to write off a set of springs every now and then. especialy as word of mouth is such a big killer...

Hoppy11 wrote:Customer service eh, i bought front leaf springs and shocks to suit MY vehicle, when fitted, (by myself) the shocks were too short for the lift that the spring gave, the springs and shocks were bought as a package, the shock was 25mm from full extension when fitted. when i took a pic of the shock with it's 25mm of travel and asked if I could send them back and get ones that where longer and would suit the lift of the springs that they supplied I was told that it was the correct shock for the spring and they would not take it back and swap it for one that was longer, So I had to buy shocks from another company, I still have the first shocks in the shed, in thier boxes.

hoppy

pic of the shockie in question, the colour of the shock has been changed to protect the guilty
Hoppy

dogbreath_48 wrote:Are you dealing with an *** owned dealership/franchise or just a shop that stocks *** gear?

I'm not sure if this has been answered and i've missed it ??

Curious is all...

The moral of this story,

Buy your gear from the little companies, they value your custom and consider you more than a number.

As for *** being number 1. maybe in the size of their product range they are. I had a brand new *** Delu** winch bar supplied for my car by insurance.
It was poorly made, I know this because I had to cut and shut the brackets to suit my body lift.

There were burrs on the ends of steel inside the bar and the coating left a lot to be desired in places as well as weld spatter everywhere. We all know that sharp edges (burrs) do not accept a correct thickness of paint and are therefore the starting point for rust.

Number one in service?, walk into many of there stores and try to get good service or even attention. Sure if you ask about that $650 battery they will be all over you, ask about a cheaper product and it's a take it or leave it attitude.

Go to their head office and ask to buy a ferrule to suit an air locker line and see if you can get out of the place with anything but a $35 kit worth about $2.50 in cost full of crud you don't need and a ferrule you do need.

My firm belief is that those who love this company and like wearing their shirts or using their badged gear know nothing about mechanics/build quality, if they did they would see the light and move on.

Oh and don't get me started on the price for resin hi lift jack base plates, it's outrageous.

Market leaders, number 1, in driving the price of 4WD accessories through the roof and out of the reach of most normal people.

And, no I will stop there.

Hoppy11 wrote:

Hoppy11 wrote:Customer service eh, i bought front leaf springs and shocks to suit MY vehicle, when fitted, (by myself) the shocks were too short for the lift that the spring gave, the springs and shocks were bought as a package, the shock was 25mm from full extension when fitted. when i took a pic of the shock with it's 25mm of travel and asked if I could send them back and get ones that where longer and would suit the lift of the springs that they supplied I was told that it was the correct shock for the spring and they would not take it back and swap it for one that was longer, So I had to buy shocks from another company, I still have the first shocks in the shed, in thier boxes.

hoppy

pic of the shockie in question, the colour of the shock has been changed to protect the guilty
Hoppy

It looks like one of those L cheapo shocks. I hope you didin't pay more then $20 for it.

booflux wrote:Maybe I should screw over some of my clients and use that excuse

Yeah and then you can be NO1 in your Area of expertise couldn't help myself
Trains springs surely the fitter could have lossened off the centre pin and re alinged it'd take all of maybe a minute. Anything i need from *** i try get through the little local guy don't mind waiting a day or 2 to get it.

Hi, I just found this thread. I think the whole crux of the problem is the carp service.

Imagine this scenario; You buy *** springs because they are a well known brand and come highly recomended. One of the leaves crack which you have never heard of before and you are quite peeved as apart from handing over a good fistful of dollars, this could potentially have caused a life threatening situation. You go down to the *** shop and have a complain heartily - because you are angry. The guy behind the counter might go and get the manager. The manager has a look at the springs and is horrified. He aplogises profusely and offers you your money back or offers to replace the springs immediately - or he will order them in ASAP. He can't be more aplogetic and says that he will take the issue up strongly with head office. You walk out (with either new springs or your money back) and think to yourself - I'm still peeved, but I got my point across and the guy was apologetic, sympathetic and offered a solution to my problem and maybe I'll go back to that shop later and buy some more accessories.

I do buy *** products, but I have had problems with their springs as many others have - search the forums. As far as I can tell, they are now being manufactured by (rather well respected) Malaysian based company, Belton, who by the way supplies numerous Australian suspension brands with springs, shackles, pins U bolts etc. It is obvious however that the quality may not be what it was. Maybe the fault rate is 0.5% or 1% or 2% - who knows? But say if you sell 1000 springs and one is faulty, why not replace the faulty spring and have the cost spread over the other 999 that were sold?

Daniel, if it makes you feel any better, you are not alone;

*** brand springs (brand new, not fitted incorrectly, not fitted at all!)

Reply to that one arb383

Oh but hang on, if somebody fitted them them selves it was "their fitting" that broken them


Its still got me buggered how "fitting them yourself" breaks them
Even if *** fitted them he still would have driven it the same, towed the same, 4x4`d the same amount, loaded the back of it up the same way. Seriously whats the bloody difference

Actually i read an article a long time ago that the cheap springs they got made were from india. They must use the metal from all the bikes from roadkill for springs

bulldogy wrote:Actually i read an article a long time ago that the cheap springs they got made were from india. They must use the metal from all the bikes from roadkill for springs

I think now we're gettin warm.

SUPPORT THE LITTLE GUY! HE WILL SUPPORT YOU!

He will give a damn.

I am a little shop in another industry, from time to time we get customers who are unsatisfied with their product.

WE SORT THEM OUT - NO MATTER WHAT WE DO OUR BEST TO ENSURE THE CUSTOMER LEAVES HAPPY.

I am currently custom ordering a part for a guy who is unhappy with the off the shelf product.

The reason he is unhappy is his 4 foot tall size 6 wife is too weak to use the product. not an issue with the product as such, however we are still making sure he leaves happy.

If a product appears it may be faulty we repair or replace it - ALWAYS.

If a product doesnt do what we said it would we sort it out - replace, exchage, refund.

That doesnt mean if someone gets a puncture we would replace a tyre, but you know what i mean.

WHY DO WE DO THIS A#*? BECAUSE WE STAND BY OUR PRODUCT.
If we didnt we would not sell it.

SMALLER businesses are usually cheaper, usually know far more about the product and they care about the customer. They have less customers too so they are often happy to spend the time with you to ensure everything is covered.

BIG BUSINESS BLAZE' ATTITUDES GIVE ME THE SHIATS!

Big business who still care are all good. but rare.

Yep, well said.

I am sure there are big businesses that do the right thing and have quality staff. It is rare though. I think they start seeing dollar signs.

Shane

Guts wrote:Reply to that one arb383

Oh but hang on, if somebody fitted them them selves it was "their fitting" that broken them


Its still got me buggered how "fitting them yourself" breaks them
Even if *** fitted them he still would have driven it the same, towed the same, 4x4`d the same amount, loaded the back of it up the same way. Seriously whats the bloody difference

guts,arb cannot control how they are fitted.i have seen so many different ways and interpretations of how to fit suspension.i usually see,springs fitted upside down,back to front,left fitted to the right,shocks not bled,wrong type or insufficient grease on bushes,u-bolts not done up evenly,nuts/bolts put on wrong threads,not measuring spring free height or camber,not measuring the car.shackles the wrong way and so many other things i can't be bothered to type.
any of these things COULD cause problems.
and i see it every day.



guts,the spring in sixtys guy pic is definatly a warranty job.
no arguement.
arb offered a number of solutions to fix the problem without question.
SO WHATS THE PROBLEM?

if they were all that easy to determine then nobody would have a problem.


as myself and sixtys guy have mentioned,ome leaf springs are made overseas.however since they went overseas,the quality and finish of the product has increased significantly.
i see fewer problems with the dakar stuff than the aussie made bhp steel springs that were sold in the past.
as said the leaves are made by a well respected company,similar to the monroe deal,not a cheap knock-off company.

awesome read - an eye opener...

not trying to high jack the topic but how can they justify an airlocker price?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ARB-Air- ... ingPayment with the exchange rate the $AU price is stuff all more in shipping to Brissy was quoted to me a few months ago at less than $200. Thats $300 per locker off the RRP - after shipping back to Australia. But dont fit them yourselves!!!!!

can anyone explain why ARB ask more than $900 for the same product that is made here after claiming how Australian they are? TJM - thanks for making another air locker but your price is too high as well. guess i will weld it up, find an lsd or get a posi locker or something...

The whole USA / AUS deal at the moment is very interesting, with regards to both products from aus to usa and vice versa.

Many companies planned during times when you more or less doubled the us dollar to the aussie dollar.

So prices were set by this say 5 years ago.

Since then the us dollar has dropped. It takes some time for importers exporters to modify prices based on exchange rates as once you drop prices its harder to increase them again, should the dollar regain value.

This means many companies are enjoying higher margins.

In my industry this is the first financial year when we have seen significant price changes on larger items due to the value of the us dollar. However cheaper items have been getting cheaper over the last 18 months.

Its not really about wether or not they can justify the price - its more about profit vs sales volume. they lose a small amount of sales to imports by people who can be bothered, but still sell 95% (guess) through aussie stores. All busiesses price items at a point where their margin x the volume gives the highest number. its just good business.

However with the USD looking like it will stay low in value for some time, we should see prices even out more over the next few years.

When you think about it ARB diff locks are 1 of 2 options - both good, both similar price. they sell lots at that price. why would they want to change.

Another factor is that the usa ecconomy is very slow at the moment, when ecconomies slow people discount products to try to sell more. whilst our ecconomy is strong so they dont need to discount.

many production factories in the us are only opperating 3 or 4 days a week now, as otherwise they produce mor than they can sell - though i realise the lockers are not us made, it still leads to cheaper pricing of products in those countries.

arb383 wrote: as myself and sixtys guy have mentioned,ome leaf springs are made overseas.however since they went overseas,the quality and finish of the product has increased significantly.

arb383 wrote: ........Ome have vehicle specific shock and spring combinations to suit whatever the customer requires......
......
......the product is made in australia and sold through about 150 authorised stores across australia.

is anyone else seeing a contradiction here....?

dogbreath_48 wrote:

dogbreath_48 wrote:Are you dealing with an *** owned dealership/franchise or just a shop that stocks *** gear?

I'm not sure if this has been answered and i've missed it ??

Curious is all...

so what is the answer to this? dealing with some bloke in some little town who sells the stuff is very different to actually dealing with theparticlar company. The little bloke could be just blowing you off and blaming the company asitis easier for him than having to go through paper work etc. Have you actually spoken with ARB themselves or not?

Also this is goes to show the bullshit power internet forums have. you hear a coupleof one sided stories about a company or a product or whatever and suddenly they are the devil incarnate selling crap. yet you never hear of the many thousands of happy customers who have no dramas and continueto buy the products happily. This is ageneral observation as I notice alotofthreads start outas Worlds crappiest whatever and once a few people start questioning and asking for all the facts the stories change very quickly. Without all the info and both sides of the story it is just hearsay and in the end it isal about getting a pat on the back and a "Hell yeah, f*ck them and their money hungry big business blah blah blah"

grimbo wrote:

dogbreath_48 wrote:

dogbreath_48 wrote:Are you dealing with an *** owned dealership/franchise or just a shop that stocks *** gear?

I'm not sure if this has been answered and i've missed it ??

Curious is all...

so what is the answer to this? dealing with some bloke in some little town who sells the stuff is very different to actually dealing with theparticlar company. The little bloke could be just blowing you off and blaming the company asitis easier for him than having to go through paper work etc. Have you actually spoken with ARB themselves or not?

Also this is goes to show the bullshit power internet forums have. you hear a coupleof one sided stories about a company or a product or whatever and suddenly they are the devil incarnate selling crap. yet you never hear of the many thousands of happy customers who have no dramas and continueto buy the products happily. This is ageneral observation as I notice alotofthreads start outas Worlds crappiest whatever and once a few people start questioning and asking for all the facts the stories change very quickly. Without all the info and both sides of the story it is just hearsay and in the end it isal about getting a pat on the back and a "Hell yeah, f*ck them and their money hungry big business blah blah blah"

My thinking exactly - everyone was quick to jump on the bandwagon before even knowing for sure that the manufacturer have been involved! (as before it may have been stated before and i've missed it)

I got the impression that they were ARB stores that woudn't be named to protect the forum.

Shane

4WD Stuff wrote:I got the impression that they were ARB stores that woudn't be named to protect the forum.

Shane

yeah we get that part but there is a big difference between some one who sells their products along with other manufacturers and an actual company franchise store as there is only one of their stores in WA

grimbo wrote:

4WD Stuff wrote:I got the impression that they were ARB stores that woudn't be named to protect the forum.

Shane

yeah we get that part but there is a big difference between some one who sells their products along with other manufacturers and an actual company franchise store as there is only one of their stores in WA

Well it wouldn't be an ARB store then and this would have been mentioned.