Outer Limits 4x4 Board

hey guys, got my 88 td42 stripped back to the bare block and just want to know if there is anything worthwile doing while its apart, will be getting new crank bearings, pistons and rings and maybe liners (mates going to have a look at them), want to run about 15 psi, i know its not a crazy build but i just want to do it all right the first time
cheers
waandy

Well its been a while since my last update, but i finally took the GU over the DYNO today. I have got a few issues to iron out yet but im pretty happy with the result i left with. The Dyno figures were 178Kw + 543Nm @ 2986rpm. This was diesel only as i have a Diesel Gas system on it as well but have not turned it on yet as its not 100% finished but should be close to 200KW with the gas system on. This car is going to be my daily driver so although could have got more torque out of the motor, left it @543 because they start to blow too much diesel smoke.

Cheers Ash

that smoke wont be an issue with the gas
have you got specs on what was done?
sounds like the sorta motor i wanna build, when i blow this one up

What do you mean specs? i built the engine so i know what i did there, hahah. i dont know what they did to my fuel pump but i do know it cost alot of $$$:) the engine has been completely rebuilt, re-sleeved,re-bored-ceramic coated+lots more! i have a slight problem with oil pressure/ To High but working on that! put a restrictor in the line to the turbo cause i was blowing oil into the exhaust.

lol u wont get much info out of him people..

Hes done all the hard work.. hes not gonna let u all know for nothing

hey ash good to see you got it going...who did the setup for you?? are you happy with what they did? It should be able to make abit more power but using it as a daily maybe best not to have to much smoke hey.....
Rob

gudday smash

sounds like she all came together well, noticed you said oil was being blown into turbo - i had the same drama when testing my motor.

There should be a restrictor in the oil line into a garret roller turbo anyway to stop oil flooding, so I hope thats the restrictor you're talking about.
The cause of the oil being forced into the compressor housing on mine was a crankcase breather being too small.
The engine will want to breath with increased boost (especially when new) so I increased the diameter from standard 8mm to 25mm and the problem stopped immediately.
I am toying with the idea of installing gas also - so will be interested to see what gains you get!!!!!

good luck

Thanks Gath, Yeh at first when we saw all the smoke we were like, WTF? its a new motor should have good compression, then one of the guys at the dyno place said because is only happening when you take your foot off the gas and then put it back on it must be the turbo, cause when your foots on the gas the pressure in the exhaust fights back against the oil seal. But as soon as you take your foot off the exhaust there is no pressure fighting the seal so the oil gets pushed though and into the exhaust and ....Presto Shit loads of white smoke! We took the input oil line off and found that there was no restrictor in there, so we machined one up to fit and drilled a 2.25mm hole to restrict the oil. this was just a guess size and made 80% improvement, although i am still blowing a small amount of white smoke but i also didnt have my rocker cover breather hooked up to the intake to give a positive suction. I just plumbed my rocker cover breather up last night but havnt driven it yet so hopefully that will make a difference and stop all the smoke but will see. might still need to change the restricor to a smaller size. What size restrictor is yours? can you remember?

cheers
Ash

gudday smash

cant remember the exact size as it came with turbo order but from the Garrett site I'd start with this as a minimum orifice size 0.040". The idea is to have 40-45 psi at max engine operating RPM.

How much boost are you running? The oil crankcase breather is best run through a catch can before entering the inlet/or sump as to keep oil mist and vapour from the induction circuit.

I have never dynoed mine but if you are getting that sort of horse power at 20 odd psi with the GT3071R I'm now intrigued to see what the TD42T makes at 30 psi!!

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:30 pm
lol u wont get much info out of him people..

Hes done all the hard work.. hes not gonna let u all know for nothing Wink

as for sharing info, I thought that was what this site was all about???
Just ask I'll share what little I know.

regards

I think you hit the nail on the head Garth, i just spoke to a guy in SA who told me to restrict down to a 1-1.2mm orifice. I am currently pulling just over 70PSI under full RPM load. I am going to need to mod my crank case breather again i think as i dont have it going through a catch can. I think i might even get really keen and take the rocker cover off and make the breather bigger.

Cheers Ash

smash250 wrote:I think you hit the nail on the head Garth, i just spoke to a guy in SA who told me to restrict down to a 1-1.2mm orifice. I am currently pulling just over 70PSI under full RPM load. I am going to need to mod my crank case breather again i think as i dont have it going through a catch can. I think i might even get really keen and take the rocker cover off and make the breather bigger.

Cheers Ash

Get all that sorted and we will have another crack at tuning it.

MAtt

smash250 wrote:What do you mean specs? i built the engine so i know what i did there, hahah. i dont know what they did to my fuel pump but i do know it cost alot of $$$:) the engine has been completely rebuilt, re-sleeved,re-bored-ceramic coated+lots more! i have a slight problem with oil pressure/ To High but working on that! put a restrictor in the line to the turbo cause i was blowing oil into the exhaust.

so you used standard pistons but ceramic coated, or new pistons?
did you port the head? log manifold or extractor style? what intercooler?
just basics on what works etc, not after detailed descriptions of the tricky stuff that makes the difference, just what you did and didnt do to make the numbers...

smash250 wrote:Thanks Gath, Yeh at first when we saw all the smoke we were like, WTF? its a new motor should have good compression, then one of the guys at the dyno place said because is only happening when you take your foot off the gas and then put it back on it must be the turbo, cause when your foots on the gas the pressure in the exhaust fights back against the oil seal. But as soon as you take your foot off the exhaust there is no pressure fighting the seal so the oil gets pushed though and into the exhaust and ....Presto Shit loads of white smoke! We took the input oil line off and found that there was no restrictor in there, so we machined one up to fit and drilled a 2.25mm hole to restrict the oil. this was just a guess size and made 80% improvement, although i am still blowing a small amount of white smoke but i also didnt have my rocker cover breather hooked up to the intake to give a positive suction. I just plumbed my rocker cover breather up last night but havnt driven it yet so hopefully that will make a difference and stop all the smoke but will see. might still need to change the restricor to a smaller size. What size restrictor is yours? can you remember?

cheers
Ash

pull off your oil drain to the sump and run it into a measuring container. start the engine up and bring the revs up. if your not getting between .4 and .8 of a liter of oil per minute you need to adjust your restrictor. this is for a ball bearing turbo, on a bush bearing turbo you need around 2 liters per minute.

love ke70 wrote:

smash250 wrote:What do you mean specs? i built the engine so i know what i did there, hahah. i dont know what they did to my fuel pump but i do know it cost alot of $$$:) the engine has been completely rebuilt, re-sleeved,re-bored-ceramic coated+lots more! i have a slight problem with oil pressure/ To High but working on that! put a restrictor in the line to the turbo cause i was blowing oil into the exhaust.

so you used standard pistons but ceramic coated, or new pistons?
did you port the head? log manifold or extractor style? what intercooler?
just basics on what works etc, not after detailed descriptions of the tricky stuff that makes the difference, just what you did and didnt do to make the numbers...

Yes i used standard pistons and ceramic coated them sides and tops. I use a log style exhaust top mount manifold and i made my own custom plemuim. I am using a 650Hp water to air intcooler with a 14L reservoir and dual heat exchanges up front. the biggest problem i think im having is space. iv had to put a 2" body lift in to fit and now im worried the air filter is going to restrict breathing and theres stuff all room for a custom one.











cheers Ash

wow ash... i never thought id see u post those pix on the net.

Hehe there is going to be some super droolers on here now lol.

Looks red-hot mate,

I was told those airboxs were only good for flowing 135RWKW more or less.
When on the dyno next time remove lid of the air box and then see what she makes...my bet is you'll be surprised

Before you go pulling the intercooler etc of the rocker cover to mod the breather, why not buy a after market alloy rocker cover cap , drill a 25mm hole through it, weld 25mm elbow into that , connect hose, dump into chassis rail and see if the engine breathes better.......just my 2c

regards garth

garth wrote:Looks red-hot mate,

I was told those airboxs were only good for flowing 135RWKW more or less.
When on the dyno next time remove lid of the air box and then see what she makes...my bet is you'll be surprised

Before you go pulling the intercooler etc of the rocker cover to mod the breather, why not buy a after market alloy rocker cover cap , drill a 25mm hole through it, weld 25mm elbow into that , connect hose, dump into chassis rail and see if the engine breathes better.......just my 2c

regards garth

This car has made 170+Rwkw with that airbox BUT having said that,we did have issues with it sucking in the air cleaner piping under full load testing.

Ash what garth has suggested is a worthy thought,might pay to get one of those custom billet lids or knock something up yourself.

MAtt

Well, i made a sealed oil catch can so i can positively suck the rocker cover gasses into the intake without contamination. I also installed a 1mm oil reducer into the oil feed for the turbo(thanks to Matt for gettuing that machined up for me), and while i had the engine bay apart i pulled the alternator apart and wired in a AC pulse wire for the gas system.

I took the truck for a test drive and i am very happy with the results. NO MORE WHITE SMOKE! YAY seems like the problem was as suspected and that is that my oil pressure was too high for the turbo seal.

I now have another problem though relating to the water in the cooling system. I keep using water, I know most will jump and say cracked head or something along those lines, however im pretty certain its no that and is more related to the radiator filler cap. I replaced the filler cap which has made some difference but i am still using water and i think whats happening the radiator cap is pressurizing too early and then going to over flow. and thus evaporating all the water in the system in the over flow bottle.

My question is this..... what pressure radiator cap does a 4.2 turbo diesel have?? i ask this cause i am running the cooling system off the ZD30 as i did the engine conversion and wonder is they run a higher pressure rad cap? another thought i spose could be the head gasket might not be 100% sealing and with the high boost could be putting extra pressure into the radiator system and thus over pressurizing it and causing it to evaporate in the overflow. what do you guys recon?

cheers Ash

got my bros car back from being tuned pulled 128rwhp @12psi. gq td42

money_killer wrote:got my bros car back from being tuned pulled 128rwhp @12pis. td42t

Are you shore you mean 128rwhp????

cause if you do i got 227rwhp @ 22.5PSI should tell your bro to turn his boost up and double his power lol

im only making about that with only a small addition of fuel and 12 pound boost un-intercooled, made 80-odd before turbo with a fraction less fuel and smaller bald tyres on an optimistic dyno.

smash250 wrote:

money_killer wrote:got my bros car back from being tuned pulled 128rwhp @12pis. td42t

Are you shore you mean 128rwhp????

cause if you do i got 246rwhp @ 22.5PSI should tell your bro to turn his boost up and double his power lol

am i missing something here ? yeh 128 hp @ the rear wheels

money_killer wrote:

smash250 wrote:

money_killer wrote:got my bros car back from being tuned pulled 128rwhp @12pis. td42t

Are you shore you mean 128rwhp????

cause if you do i got 227rwhp @ 22.5PSI should tell your bro to turn his boost up and double his power lol

am i missing something here ? yeh 128 hp @ the rear wheels

Its all good mate most people talk in rear wheel kilo watts i.e RWKW not HP horsepower 128rwhp is = to 95.4rwkws

Also the size of ur tyres will have a large effect on your final output on the dyno. I ran 33"tyres when i did mine.

smash250 wrote:

money_killer wrote:

smash250 wrote:

money_killer wrote:got my bros car back from being tuned pulled 128rwhp @12pis. td42t

Are you shore you mean 128rwhp????

cause if you do i got 227rwhp @ 22.5PSI should tell your bro to turn his boost up and double his power lol

am i missing something here ? yeh 128 hp @ the rear wheels

Its all good mate most people talk in rear wheel kilo watts i.e RWKW not HP horsepower 128rwhp is = to 95.4rwkws

Also the size of ur tyres will have a large effect on your final output on the dyno. I ran 33"tyres when i did mine.

oh right ok yeh im not used to talking in kw's sorry, yeh was running 33's on the dyno.

aaron

smash250 wrote:Well, i made a sealed oil catch can so i can positively suck the rocker cover gasses into the intake without contamination. I also installed a 1mm oil reducer into the oil feed for the turbo(thanks to Matt for gettuing that machined up for me), and while i had the engine bay apart i pulled the alternator apart and wired in a AC pulse wire for the gas system.

I took the truck for a test drive and i am very happy with the results. NO MORE WHITE SMOKE! YAY seems like the problem was as suspected and that is that my oil pressure was too high for the turbo seal.

I now have another problem though relating to the water in the cooling system. I keep using water, I know most will jump and say cracked head or something along those lines, however im pretty certain its no that and is more related to the radiator filler cap. I replaced the filler cap which has made some difference but i am still using water and i think whats happening the radiator cap is pressurizing too early and then going to over flow. and thus evaporating all the water in the system in the over flow bottle.

My question is this..... what pressure radiator cap does a 4.2 turbo diesel have?? i ask this cause i am running the cooling system off the ZD30 as i did the engine conversion and wonder is they run a higher pressure rad cap? another thought i spose could be the head gasket might not be 100% sealing and with the high boost could be putting extra pressure into the radiator system and thus over pressurizing it and causing it to evaporate in the overflow. what do you guys recon?

cheers Ash

how did you come to 1mm, did you check the flow?

is the overflow level rising?

Drifter i have not checked the flow yet, however i did talk to a performance diesel/turbo specialist who told me that 1 to 1.2mm will be fine considering my high oil pressure. he also said that the GT3071R has built in oil restricor which is 0.8mm so i cant see my 1mm restrictor restricting it too much to the point of it being bad since the internal restrictor is even smaller. but im no flow specialist either so next chance i get ill try take the oil drain off and check for the correct flow, ,0.6-,0.8L/pm

cheers Ash

Well bit of bad news today, I found where the waters going...

Its leaking out of the side of the head under the intake manifold. I am going to try and re-torque the head bolts to see if that will fix it. bit of a bummer since the engine still hasn't even done 1000ks yet :(

smash250 wrote:Well bit of bad news today, I found where the waters going...

Its leaking out of the side of the head under the intake manifold. I am going to try and re-torque the head bolts to see if that will fix it. bit of a bummer since the engine still hasn't even done 1000ks yet :(

Its not coming from the oil cooler housing? might be worth double checking if you havnt done so.

Simon

bit of a set back mate but no biggie.......unfortunately once they leak they are usually F*%ked.

A mates truck leaked in the same place as yours after using a 'cheaper' head gasket. We replaced it with a factory Nissan one and when installing sprayed both sides with copper seal, and over torqued the "new" head bolts by a 'quarter turn'.
He re-torqued them a couple of days later after all had settled in.

He runs 25lbs of boost and hasn't seen a leak since.

As for the Diesel/Gas.... I had a talk to a few guys over here about LPG fumigation units and was told not to go there as in NZ our Butane to Propane mix is very different to yours in Aussie. It burns hotter with higher combustion pressures.
So more research is needed for us here...............


As for type of Head Gaskets in my engine - i also used a factory Nissan Turbo one and set my liners up with a raised profile of 3 thou to get a better seal.

good luck with build

Well tightened and head bolts up today and No-Luck, so the head is defiantly coming off. but as im broke as Shit at the moment im not going to be rushing to do it, so today i started to clean out the garage to make room for the GU so i can start doing bit by bit each day until job is done. I got to tell you though bit depressing after spending so much $$ on the engine and having to pull the bloody thing apart already. ah well got to fix it and fix it properly.

Ash.