Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Pacman Going off what we have read on Pirate 4x4 the common part that the yanks are breaking is the locking ring for the locker.

The diffs we are building:
Yes they end up a high pinion.
they have to be flipped as the portel box reverses the drive to the axel and if we dont we will have 3 reverse gears and 1 forward. ( C4 Auto) Thats not really an issue as it will have 45 degree steer at both diffs so i spose we can just spin the d seat around lol

The salsbury diff can be re tubed with a thicker wall material as we will be doing.
why go a 9.75 crown wheel? Well cause we can and we want it as strong as possible but not go silly with the cost + it tequnically is a rover diff and we are trying to incorporate rover bits into the build not just mask everything with a Rover bonnet.

Cheers Nottie

nottie wrote:they have to be flipped as the portel box reverses the drive to the axel and if we dont we will have 3 reverse gears and 1 forward. ( C4 Auto) Thats not really an issue as it will have 45 degree steer at both diffs so i spose we can just spin the d seat around lol

Hey, a giant light bulb just popped up over my head!

Any rules against rear engined vehicles???

Now is a good time to rotate the whole drivetrain (front to rear)

Spare tyre can go under the bonnet

GRIMACE wrote:

nottie wrote:they have to be flipped as the portel box reverses the drive to the axel and if we dont we will have 3 reverse gears and 1 forward. ( C4 Auto) Thats not really an issue as it will have 45 degree steer at both diffs so i spose we can just spin the d seat around lol

Hey, a giant light bulb just popped up over my head!

Any rules against rear engined vehicles???

Now is a good time to rotate the whole drivetrain (front to rear)

Spare tyre can go under the bonnet

Yeah I think Pete was trying to do that for last year and had an engineer lied up to approve it, but it turned out to be one for the too hard basket. There was even a production 4x4 with a rear engine. The info is in Pete's build up thread.

Looking forward to seeing how this turns out should be great when done.

Hi nottie,

thanks heaps for your infos.

Hmm - is the front diff not ending up as a low pinion?
Or can you use some other ring and pinion?

I like this topic!

What do you want to do with the breaks?
From ~1978 on the non 404 unimogs came factory with 4xdisc.


Thanks
Chris

Brakes are being converted to discs with twin calipers

Yeah pacman the 406 diffs did come with disc but unfortunetly most were still drum. As micka said the breaks are being sorted

Both front a rear diff will end up high pinion

nottie wrote:Both front a rear diff will end up high pinion

I'd be interested in hearing how you do the disk break conversion.
It's been on my to do list

Jeff

WICKED wrote:

nottie wrote:Both front a rear diff will end up high pinion

I do know that's its a widely held belief that your are retarded, Ben...but what is the joke, exactly?

Micka wrote:

WICKED wrote:

nottie wrote:Both front a rear diff will end up high pinion

I do know that's its a widely held belief that your are retarded, Ben...but what is the joke, exactly?

Come on its more than a belief its a fact. I got one of his retarded phone calls only a few hours ago

RUFF wrote:

Micka wrote:

WICKED wrote:

nottie wrote:Both front a rear diff will end up high pinion

I do know that's its a widely held belief that your are retarded, Ben...but what is the joke, exactly?

Come on its more than a belief its a fact. I got one of his retarded phone calls only a few hours ago

:Tiny asian gangstar outta the hangover voice on:
Fark you... mudda farkers!
:Tiny asian gangstar outta the hangover voice off:

Be round soon Tony

WICKED wrote:

RUFF wrote:

Micka wrote:

WICKED wrote:

nottie wrote:Both front a rear diff will end up high pinion

I do know that's its a widely held belief that your are retarded, Ben...but what is the joke, exactly?

Come on its more than a belief its a fact. I got one of his retarded phone calls only a few hours ago

:Tiny asian gangstar outta the hangover voice on:
Fark you... mudda farkers!
:Tiny asian gangstar outta the hangover voice off:

Be round soon Tony

Ok thats funny but you are a Tard!

nottie wrote: The diffs we are building:
Yes they end up a high pinion.
they have to be flipped as the portel box reverses the drive to the axel and if we dont we will have 3 reverse gears and 1 forward. ( C4 Auto) Thats not really an issue as it will have 45 degree steer at both diffs so i spose we can just spin the d seat around lol
Cheers Nottie

Nottie, does the C4 have reverse rotation compared to every other gearbox?

No slunnie why is that?
It seems if some other suggesting we have something wrong with rotations to get to the high pinion. Must keep in mind that the diff needs to turn opposite as to run the portal forward.

nottie wrote:No slunnie why is that?
It seems if some other suggesting we have something wrong with rotations to get to the high pinion. Must keep in mind that the diff needs to turn opposite as to run the portal forward.

Only need to flip if there is only two gears in the portal box.

edit* like this (mog portal I think...):


If it is arranged like this but then you don't need to flip:

stuee wrote:

nottie wrote:No slunnie why is that?
It seems if some other suggesting we have something wrong with rotations to get to the high pinion. Must keep in mind that the diff needs to turn opposite as to run the portal forward.

Only need to flip if there is only two gears in the portal box.

edit* like this (mog portal I think...):


Yep...that's why the Salisbury will be flipped

We did some quick measurements on the the MogSals versus the standard 404s and it looks like that we will lose only 30mm in clearance under the diff. Might be able to shave some off that, but really, 30mm in over half a metre of clearance under the diffs isn't going to bother me.

nottie wrote:No slunnie why is that?
It seems if some other suggesting we have something wrong with rotations to get to the high pinion. Must keep in mind that the diff needs to turn opposite as to run the portal forward.

Cool, I'd just never heard of anybody flipping mogs with a conventionally orientated motor. I'm guessing now that the mog diff operates from the factory in the reverse direction. Did PeteA also do this?

Slunnie wrote:

nottie wrote:No slunnie why is that?
It seems if some other suggesting we have something wrong with rotations to get to the high pinion. Must keep in mind that the diff needs to turn opposite as to run the portal forward.

Cool, I'd just never heard of anybody flipping mogs with a conventionally orientated motor. I'm guessing now that the mog diff operates from the factory in the reverse direction. Did PeteA also do this?

Yep, the mog diffs come "flipped" from the factory.

With hybrid axles, you need to flip the centres, unless rear engined or running something that spins backwards like a honda motor.

G-wagens have a flipped front (but no portals) - so the t-case must have some funky stuff to make the front prop turn in the opposite direction to the rear.

Slunnie wrote:

nottie wrote:No slunnie why is that?
It seems if some other suggesting we have something wrong with rotations to get to the high pinion. Must keep in mind that the diff needs to turn opposite as to run the portal forward.

Cool, I'd just never heard of anybody flipping mogs with a conventionally orientated motor. I'm guessing now that the mog diff operates from the factory in the reverse direction. Did PeteA also do this?

Pete has Mog406 diffs with a 421 centre so his are all Mog. In his buggies he had hybrid axels consisting of 9" centres and Hummer portals. He didn't need to flip those diffs because the buggies were rear engined.

It can do you head in just checking and double checking which part turns what way, but at the end of the day, both Salisbury diffs will be flipped(in high pinion position) in order for the MogSals to drive in the right direction.

Excellent! Quite sincerely thanks for this Ben and Micka. I didn't realise all of this with the Mog diffs, I had just assumed that they operated like every other, and actually I also thought that the portals had 4 gears instead of 2.

Nope...just 2 big bastards



This pic was borrowed from Mick.'s thread in Members.

Micka wrote:Nope...just 2 big bastards



This pic was borrowed from Mick.'s thread in Members.

So that huge bit of pipe sticking out of the large gear is the outer/stub axle? That is huge - AND already gun drilled!!!

ISUZUROVER wrote:AND already gun drilled!!!

Please explain? Never heard of this before, I assume its the little holes on the lip of the stub axle. What are the benefits of this?

stuee wrote:

ISUZUROVER wrote:AND already gun drilled!!!

Please explain? Never heard of this before, I assume its the little holes on the lip of the stub axle. What are the benefits of this?

Gun drilled is when the centre of a shaft is machined out.

gun drilling, while making it lighter is debatable whether it makes it stronger.

uninformed wrote:gun drilling, while making it lighter is debatable whether it makes it stronger.

We have been through this before. Gun drilling makes axles lighter, while at the same time giving a negligible/small reduction in overall strength (if any reduction at all).

Some people think that gun drilling makes axles stronger - due to more uniform heat treatment or other issues, however there is no evidence to back this up.

ISUZUROVER wrote:

uninformed wrote:gun drilling, while making it lighter is debatable whether it makes it stronger.

We have been through this before. Gun drilling maxes axles lighter, while at the same time giving a negligible/small reduction in overall strength (if any reduction at all).

Some people thing that gun drilling makes axles stronger - due to more uniform heat treatment or other issues, however there is no evidence to back this up.

I had also heard it makes them stronger as there are 2 surfaces (ie torsional forces are focussed in the surface of the shaft), but that really didn't make sense to me either.

Slunnie wrote:

ISUZUROVER wrote:

uninformed wrote:gun drilling, while making it lighter is debatable whether it makes it stronger.

We have been through this before. Gun drilling maxes axles lighter, while at the same time giving a negligible/small reduction in overall strength (if any reduction at all).

Some people thing that gun drilling makes axles stronger - due to more uniform heat treatment or other issues, however there is no evidence to back this up.

I had also heard it makes them stronger as there are 2 surfaces (ie torsional forces are focussed in the surface of the shaft), but that really didn't make sense to me either.

I posted something years ago about gun drilled axles being stronger (based on info from a US axle manufacturer), and was shot down in flames by the mech engineers on here - Bush65, Red90rover, etc...

The reason the reduction in strength due to gun drilling is minimal, is that stress is concentrated on the outside of the axle shaft. The inner (gun drilled) surface is not stressed at all. An axle is basically as strong as the root diameter of the splines (all other things being equal).

Micka wrote:Yep...that's why the Salisbury will be flipped

You are using a 60 center with MOG portals???? Why?

Ahh I see...

Micka wrote:The new diffs will be hybrids called "MogSals". We are using 4.7:1 ratio Salisbury's with the Mog outers. This will give a 10:1 reduction. Keith Kruetzer from RoverTracks is going to be making the custom inner axels that will be 1.5" 35 spline at the diff end to the 1.6" Mog end. These babies will go into the 35 spline Detroit lockers that will be in the Salisburies.

A little excessive over design and one hell of a heavy axle..... To each their own, I guess.