Outer Limits 4x4 Board

youre welcome fellas

I used this forum when i researched my builds so its good to pass it on.

The factory anaroid will drop 30cc of fuel in - so its up to you where you want it.
Mine is set at 15psi to give it extra legs to get it to 30psi quicker.
Guys who have driven it reckon it feels like a 2 stroke bike when it comes on the boost...its takes a while to get the feel of the torque curve.

if you set it too high it'll smoke down low and EGT's will be a worry so play around with it and see what suits your driving style.

You definitly need to check your pyro if EGT's are around the 250 mark.....there's something not right there and you dont wanna fry anything at this stage!
I have ceramic internals also, but to get to 30psi you gotta be burnin heaps of fuel and even when lean it'll be around 400-450.

Example of mine towing a trailer with 2 bikes at 110kph is 5 psi boost at 290'C EGT... and that set rich for extra spool up.
Fuel economy is shit but I dont care, ha ha

Yeah Ash the noise is a bit harsh but I only notice it when i get into 'shiney' trucks that are so quiet.....

regards garth

smash250 wrote:

uzdnabuzd wrote:If it is fluttering sounds like compressor surge!!

Wont really harm you r motor as it is diesel, but it will sure as hell stuff your turbo.

I think it is more likly wastgate flutter, as it makes the noise on boost not off boost.

Compresseror surge is when pressure builds up between the intake and the turbo when you take you foot off the accelerator and causes the turbo to back spin/flutter.ie compressor surge. I think this is correct

The fluttering of the neddle is just that its off the boost guage scale.


Not sure why you would say its a "big problem" KiwiBacon, i do have access to a K type meatre and will check it out, however this engine has ceramic internals and manifolds,dump so not sure what temp reading should be. I have a Comp truch which i run at 450-600 degree so i do realise that 200-250 is very low, however the "OFF BOOST" fuel is not wound up very high and is more than likly running lean, which would be a cause of such low temps because even when you hit (ON BOOST) you dont stay on it very long before you back to (No boost) otherwise you would be setting land speed records and i dont have a 6th and 7th gear!

cheers Ash

Compressor surge will also happen on boost. If it is fluttering under load you are getting compressor surge. Your turbo will be f#@ed in under 10000 ks.

I have had the same thing happen to me

Ceramic internal does not mean that the temps will be lower, it means that more heat will be pushed out the exhaust rather heat soak in the motor. If you are burning the fuel you make the same heat ceramic or no ceramic

Cheers

Zac

smash250 wrote:Not sure why you would say its a "big problem" KiwiBacon, i do have access to a K type meatre and will check it out, however this engine has ceramic internals and manifolds,dump so not sure what temp reading should be. I have a Comp truch which i run at 450-600 degree so i do realise that 200-250 is very low, however the "OFF BOOST" fuel is not wound up very high and is more than likly running lean, which would be a cause of such low temps because even when you hit (ON BOOST) you dont stay on it very long before you back to (No boost) otherwise you would be setting land speed records and i dont have a 6th and 7th gear!

cheers Ash

It's a big problem because it's too low to be a credible measurement. Either the probe isn't extending into the gas flow or there's an electrical problem.
If you put any credence in those figures, you'll toast your engine.
If 250C was an accurate measurement, you'd have an exhaust soo cold you'd produce virtually no boost. I get 180C at warm idle.

Black smoke under boost means you're already running combustion temps hot enough to cause damage. But your guage doesn't show that.

Compressor surge is when the flow through the turbo compressor is unstable, it builds up and blows back through the vanes, then repeats until you let off. It's very bad for the turbo and ingesting turbo parts is bad for the engine so it's worth investigating.
Basically, the turbo compressor is mismatched (probably too large) for the engine and boost being asked.

Basically, the turbo compressor is mismatched (probably too large) for the engine and boost being asked.

Dunno about that as this turbo has been used many times without a drama. Its at the top end of the turbo matching graph but its still ok.
As far as the 'flutter' is concerned. Its more likely to be a wastegate/compensator issue and should be a easy fix.

ps; we are talking diesel here, gas is another ball game...things go bad alot quicker

keep at it boys.....

this thing sounds mental, would love to hear it sometime.

garth wrote:As far as the 'flutter' is concerned. Its more likely to be a wastegate/compensator issue and should be a easy fix.

There's a very easy way to check. Stick a restrictor in the line to each device (wastegate and aneroid). This will damp out the pulses and smooth out the operation of that device, if the problem goes away then that's the cause found.

Ok, well i checked out the Pyro today, i went for a drive and payed close attention to what was going on, it would seam that "Off Boost" it hangs around the 200-280 mark but if you go on boost and hold the temp rises rapidly up to 600. But drops off straight away when you back off back into "off boost" I also Checked the Pyro to make sure it was reading correctly, I drove the car, left it running and took a reading of what the guage was reading. I then removed the thermocouple from the dump(while the engine is still running) and inserted my Callibrated Fluke Tempreture probe. and compared both reading... Both reading were the same so i am of the impression that the guage is working correctly.

Now i know 200 is still very low for egts however i do have a therory as to why they are so low on my eninge and not everyone elses.
1. "no boost could be running lean"
2. When i re-built my engine i installed a High volume oil pump, which would be squirting twice as much oil at the pistons as usual, therefore reducing the heat in the combustion chamber.

What do you guys think?

Ash

200 deg off boost is normal

600 deg is as high as u want to be going Post temp.

The extra oil cooling will be negligible for combustion temps.

I rekon u sort out that waste gate flutter and run 30psi to bring the EGT's down.

Oh and also, the Gas and eventually NOS will bring those Egt's down.

Whats it like smoke wise now ash?

Yeh Tom, 600 is fine, but as far as the extra oil being negligible im not sure, you have to see how hard you can push it with out the egts even moving, its like its not true. and when it does move it moves quick but as soon as you back off its back to normal again. Its NOTHING like my comp truck and this is running twice maybe more as much fuel!

Smoke is fine, no smoke on "off boost" and a Nice Puff of Black when the "On boost" comes in.

As far as the flutter is concern, All fixed. Like i said it was just the boost controller. the screw had wound out. and it was boosting off the gauge. I have wound it back to 20Psi now. Its 20 because that's what it was when i last adjusted the valve not because i was aiming for 20 i was happy to have it under 25, but 20 is fine. still goes hard, but there is a huge difference in throw you back in the seat power between 20 and 30 haha.

Ok guys thanks for all your input for the head gasket but since that job is done im going back to my other thread. i have just put the pics up too if your interested.
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/sutra1782436.php#1782436

Ash

gudday fellas

sorry i thought 250 was egts running

Z()LTAN

PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:50 pm
200 deg off boost is normal

600 deg is as high as u want to be going Post temp.

The extra oil cooling will be negligible for combustion temps.

I rekon u sort out that waste gate flutter and run 30psi to bring the EGT's down

On the money!

If you lower the boost you may need to lower fuel also (to control egt's) especially when towing......and thats just plain criminal when youve built it to handle the power.

30psi all the way!.......

Mine took ages of adjusting to get right and i still lower fuel input on pump when towing 3.5 ton boat long distances.


regards Garth

Z()LTAN wrote:200 deg off boost is normal

600 deg is as high as u want to be going Post temp.

The extra oil cooling will be negligible for combustion temps.

I rekon u sort out that waste gate flutter and run 30psi to bring the EGT's down.

Oh and also, the Gas and eventually NOS will bring those Egt's down.

Whats it like smoke wise now ash?

Agree with Zoltan.

BTW, if you're running a lot of boost, 600 post turbo is still to high. The more boost you run the bigger the temperature drop across the turbine will be. To know for certain you need to put the probe in the exhaust manifold. Post turbos probes are of limited use.

smash250 wrote:Ok, well i checked out the Pyro today, i went for a drive and payed close attention to what was going on, it would seam that "Off Boost" it hangs around the 200-280 mark but if you go on boost and hold the temp rises rapidly up to 600. But drops off straight away when you back off back into "off boost" I also Checked the Pyro to make sure it was reading correctly, I drove the car, left it running and took a reading of what the guage was reading. I then removed the thermocouple from the dump(while the engine is still running) and inserted my Callibrated Fluke Tempreture probe. and compared both reading... Both reading were the same so i am of the impression that the guage is working correctly.

Now i know 200 is still very low for egts however i do have a therory as to why they are so low on my eninge and not everyone elses.
1. "no boost could be running lean"
2. When i re-built my engine i installed a High volume oil pump, which would be squirting twice as much oil at the pistons as usual, therefore reducing the heat in the combustion chamber.

What do you guys think?

Ash

Where do you get a high flow oil pump from? Is the oil pressure any higher. and mods where done to the oil system to get all that extra oil to flow. Did you up pressure on the oil relief valve?